Likely in need of 28amp Alt - any available?

Oldschool1 said:
Am I understanding this right; 12 V at the field (2P connector) should provide max output of the stator, or 0V on the 2P provides max output of the stator?
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Can't tell that right away, as I'd never taken measures...
The rotor consists of permanent magnets, once it starts to rotate, the magnetic field lines get "cut" by the stator windings, thus induce voltage into them, etc...
This process takes place without auxiliary power applied... but I honestly don't know if voltage applied at the 2P "boosts" the field/output or "dampens/distorts" it... :shrug2:
Would need to crank up the '94 and check...

Also to confirm, the 3 Ohm resistance is on the Alternator side of the 2P connector (black and white wires).
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The w/shop manuals says 0~0,4Ohm between black & white of the alternator; probably depends on the voltage your voltmeter operates at (ohmic vs inductive resistance)...
 
Ok, some progress.

Following the forementioned spark chaser suggestion - slightly pull on the wires at teh connector.

I did follow this and found an intermittent connection at the VRR connector. Tugged slightly on the wires going into the VRR connector (white with 6 wires in I believe) and the output voltage of the 3P connector jumped to about 30VAC between any two wires, all consistent, at roughly 2k rpm.

I measured voltage at the battery and it was 14.5 VDC at 1000 rpm or 2k rpm.

So I'll inspect that connector closely - try to see what is going on. This could be a breath of fresh air:)

I do not think it is the VRR with intermittent as i replaced that with a known good loaner from John O. and had no response.

WOW, i'm feeling a bit bamboozled now when all independant circuits checked out fine but when assembled connections are compromised. Lessons learned here.

More to come.

Paul
 
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From looking at schematic where the splice of black goes back to RR would likely be the system output voltage sense wire. It would be interesting to know what the voltage of white wire is while running for field voltage for comparison to the black or red/white output wires.
 
Oldschool1 said:
I did follow this and found an intermittent connection at the VRR connector. Tugged slightly on the wires going into the VRR connector (white with 6 wires in I believe) and the output voltage of the 3P connector jumped to about 30VAC between any two wires, all consistent, at roughly 2k rpm.
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All right!
Check for signs of overheating on the connector shell, in the Resin around the prongs on the VRR, as well as at the crimping-point around the wires (small watchmakers screwdriver enables releasing the locking-latch of the connector inside the shell)
Also blackened copper-strands in the wire + hardened isolation are signs for a) corrosion, b) overheating, c) both happening...
Also possible that the AMP-type connector suffered a corrosion related crack, so it won't grab on the prong of the VRR.

If replacement of them crimp-connectors is required, ensure to also have the proper, ratchet type crimping tool avail, which doesn't release until the rated pressure is reached.
 
Just FYI, the AMP style wire connector is an abbreviation for Amphenol Corp and is well regarded stuff.:)
 
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ST1100Y said:
All right!
Check for signs of overheating on the connector shell, in the Resin around the prongs on the VRR, as well as at the crimping-point around the wires (small watchmakers screwdriver enables releasing the locking-latch of the connector inside the shell)
Also blackened copper-strands in the wire + hardened isolation are signs for a) corrosion, b) overheating, c) both happening...
Also possible that the AMP-type connector suffered a corrosion related crack, so it won't grab on the prong of the VRR.
If replacement of them crimp-connectors is required, ensure to also have the proper, ratchet type crimping tool avail, which doesn't release until the rated pressure is reached.
Click to expand...

My philosophy is, if there's one bad connection in a connector, change all of them. Been done here a lot and recommended by many.
Save your removed stuff for examination when you don't want to ride.
 
Doodaa said:
My philosophy is, if there's one bad connection in a connector, change all of them. Been done here a lot and recommended by many.
Save your removed stuff for examination when you don't want to ride.
Click to expand...

I'm game for installing new connectors. Where can I purchase the connectors and the installation tool referenced above?

Thx,

Paul
 

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Hi -

Definately not out riding, work has taken over my life this week until tonight. I may be able to get out and pull the terminals out of the connector today to see what has happened.

Yes i'm about 5 days behind schedule now.

Will post findings ASAP.

Paul
 
Well i cleaned the connectors - didnt really seen anything i would have been concerned about. See pics - put them back in the AMP socket.

All good 14.3 volts. Went for a buzz for 30 minutes - came back - bat voltage at 12V and dropping.

So back to drawing board. Hmmmm this bugger!

Next step is see if i can toggle voltage on / off with wiggling the 6P again and go from there. Maybe its an internal wire break but - i would be really surprise. Or maybe something else and it was coincidence that voltage came up with pulling on the connector. No couldn't be right - go by the data rather than think too hard on it.

First pic is the two suspect terminals (black white wires for field exictation current), next is after connectors were dipped in vinegar/salt (week HCL acid) for a oxidation removal and then neutralization with a baking soda/water). I did test the connectors independantly for a snug fit on the spade connector (all felt good) then gave them a mile squeeze with pliers to increase the grip on the spades slightly) felt very nice when inserting the 6P onto the VRR.

Will look again tomorrow when there is daylight!

Not giving up!!!!!

Paul
 

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Paul,
Glad to see you didn't give up. I don't see any obvious problems with your connections. Perhaps try only moving one wire connection at a time to more isolate it, if you don't want to just totally eliminate the connector altogether.....but I would. Did you give a "mild squeeze" to the actual wire crimp connection behind the spade portion of the terminal ?
Ken
 
I didn't squeeze the "wire crimp" portion of the terminal. It looked really well assemlbed but -your right you never know.

I will step check (wiggle) each terminal wire independantly see if any repeatable results - then if so maybe it is the wire crimp or fragmented wire.

thx,

Paul
 
Have you done the same inspection on the red 3-pin stator connector?
Quite often the culprit sits right there, as this connector sits a bit exposed.
 
I am leaning towards a heat related failure. Take your stator and field readings cold and confirm charging and when it starts not charging test again. Plug back in start up and confirm not charging still. Repeat a couple times to confirm a pattern.
 
Wire Movement #2 Results: More DATA and NO Conclusions

Started the test with the charging system in continnuing on from thread #35, which was 0V charge at the end of the test ride.

Started the ST and no charging as expected.

Tugged on the black, white, and red (power supply wire) coming out of the 6P independantly. This was push pull bend, wiggle with a pair of needle nose. Could not get a change in charging.

Then grabbed the 6p and wiggled and pulled it and then the charging system came up - but it was not quick it may have taken 5-10 seconds or so to go from measured voltage at the terminals of 12.25V to 14.3V. It may have taken 3 seconds to increase the voltage the first 0.2 V increase (12.25 to 12.50V). Not sure if this slow response is design intent or abnormal?

I could not get the charging system to go offline by manipulating the 6P connector again.

I did notice the voltage was at 14.3V most of the time with the headlights off at 1500 rpm. It did not ever drop below 13.3V at 1000 rpm. I think voltage was a function of electrical load and RPM, i suspect the VRR was not regulating it.

After 10 minutes of idling (1100 - 1500 rpm) the VRR was about 140F to the touch (fairly uncomfortable after a 5 second touch (potted surface), and the wires going into the VRR felt like 120-130F (warmer than i expected) with the high beams on. I could definately feel an increase temperature with the headlights on H (low beam bulb is out currently) due to current increase.

My suspicions are the VRR is not cycling off, it is overcharging the battery, and might be hotter than expected. I'm at a loss as to what wiggling the 6P is actually changing to bring charging back.

Thoughts - other tests?

Thx,

Paul
 
Paul, 13.3V at 1,000rpm and rising to 14+V at anything above ~1,500rpm, up to 15V at 5,000rpm is normal for the 28amper.

At this point I'd try another "known good" VRR. Then maybe replace all the wiring with new and individual new female spade connectors directly to the VRR spades. Assume the red 3P is already gone.

Bottom line though is at this point you don't have confidence in the charging system and can't enjoy riding the ST. Unless you can soon determine with absolute certainty THE CAUSE, and then effect the sure-fire FIX:

-- do the 40 amp alternator upgrade and GO RIDE.* JMHO

John

* Official motto of STOC

via iPhone 4S
 
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