Michelin and the PR Hum

[Bones]

The "hum" of Michelin Pilot Road tires is well known to us in ST-Owners land. I discussed it with Dave at Motorace when I had my test set of PRs, I wrote about it in my OneWheelDrive review, and I've talked to a bunch of you all about it personally and through the forum. I concluded that the hum is a result of the grooves, which are much more horizontal than on the BT020s or Z6s, the other tires I've had on my ST.

When I saw photos of the PR2, I immediately noticed that the grooves are now more closely aligned with the tire's circumference. I wondered if the result of this design change would be a quieter tire. This is more of an issue for me now that I replaced my stock shield with a Clearview, which makes the cockpit substantially quieter and lessens the need for earplugs. (Earplugs, by the way, make the hum a non-issue).

I decided to ask Michelin if the new PR2s would be quieter than PRs, which, I pointed out, have a reputation as a loud tire. A Michelin customer relations guy responded promptly:

Concerning your question, the Pilot Roads are a very quiet tire and we regret to hear of the issue that you are experiencing. We have had no real complaints of noise on this tire. We suggest having the selling tire dealer inspect the tires and call us with an inspection. We will be glad to review the matter at that time. We look forward to speaking with you concerning this matter.
​

I responded with links to various threads on this forum that speak to the infamous hum. My reply said, in part:

I'm writing to share information based on my personal experience and that of the active (and vocal) ST1300 owner community. We rack up the miles and, with the 18" front rim, we have few choices for matched sets of rubber. PRs are one such set, with a reputation for good grip, smooth and linear turn-in, great wet performance, squirrelly performance on tar snakes, and an annoying hum. Assuming you and I will agree to disagree on whether the Pilot Road is a quiet tire, I'd like to recast my question: Will the Pilot Road 2 be noticeably quieter than the Pilot Road?
​

The meat of the reply from Michelin:

Concerning your question: Will the Pilot Road 2 be noticeably quieter than the Pilot Road? We are not aware of any complaints made to us concerning noise on the Pilot Roads. The Pilot Road 2 will be a smoother riding tire and may be lower on noise but noise is subjective so we cannot comment directly concerning the question. Once again, we have had no official complaints made to us concerning noise on the Pilot Roads.
​

The meat of my reply to Michelin:

Whether my contact with you qualifies as an "official complaint" is not for me to decide. I'll grant you that noise is subjective, but when so many people sharing a constant (the Honda ST1300) also share the opinion that one of the few tires available for the bike is loud enough that they won't buy them again, I think there's something more to it than coincidence. Perhaps the PR2s "may be quieter" as you suggest, but apparently we'll have to find out from someone other than the company that makes them.
​

We ended up talking on the phone. Apparently he checked the links to our discussions, was surprised by what he found, and forwarded them to the technical people. He said he'll keep me informed. If he does, I'll keep all of you informed. I'm not sure what will come of this, if anything, but I thought I share this experience with the forum.

 

[Medicine Bear]

Good on you, Bones. I have the PR's but I wear ear plugs so it's not an issue for me. It sounds like Michelin is finally, to their credit, taking you (us) seriously.

Fred

 

[georgeorge]

Cool, it's nice to see someone actually make a difference in something that's not quite right.
From the pictures I've seen of the tread pattern on the PR2's they sure look like they should be quieter than the PR's because of the more vertical tread across the center of the tire. I hope they are, but it's not a deal breaker for me with the autocom humming tunes in my ears anyway.

 

[Byron]

Bones,

One of the things I found out about tire noise is the spacing of the grooves or blocks. Tires that have evenly spaced grooves, all the same distance from one another, tend to make more noise as they set up sort of a harmonic going over the roadway. Tires that have the grooves staggered, different distances apart from each other are quiter because they can not set up the harmonic.

When you hear that 4-wheeler's tires singing as it goes down the road you can bet that the grooves are evenly spaced. The ones that don't make as much noise have grooves that are staggered.

 

[deanrd]

I had them as replacement tires on my Ducati Multistrada and they are a hummer as well as squirrelly on tar snakes for sure. I posted that info on the Multi forum with the same results and feedback. He ought to look there as well.

Dean

 

[Bones]

I had them as replacement tires on my Ducati Multistrada and they are a hummer as well as squirrelly on tar snakes for sure. I posted that info on the Multi forum with the same results and feedback. He ought to look there as well.

Dean

Got a link, Dean? I'll forward it.

 

[Coop]

Thanks Bones!! Did he mention which song the PR2's was going to hum?

 

[sherob]

That's amazing... Now I want to to get them to make tires for the GL1800 :bow1:

 

[Jefro]

Bones, thanks for taking the bull by the horns.
At least he is willing to consider the possibility of humming tires and poor tar snake performance.

I called Dunlop repeatedly with requests for an Elite 3 touring tire for the ST, and spoke to many people before I got through to the Marketing boss.
His reply was "stop calling us!"
I will never buy their tires again!
Jefro.

 

[Kempo-STer]

Good deal Bones...

I, like Brian are aware of the hum, but the tunes cancel them out and I like them enough for the wear and the never ending rain we hit last year that my third set of PRs will be on their way to my house soon enough...
That said, an upgrade in the tire can only be a good thing.

Also, I don't know why more companies, jump on internet forums to find out what the street level pulse is on their products...It amazing to me..You could get some college interm for a couple of weeks at a time and scour for trends and consistant complaints?

 

[Styles]

The "hum" of Michelin Pilot Road tires is well known . . .

(Earplugs, by the way, make the hum a non-issue). . . .

Bones, I'm quite afraid even with my earplugs in, Michelin's well-known "PR hum" is coming through.

It sounds here a bit more like a "drone," however.

You'll maybe recognize it in what Malcolm Cowley described once — in "Sociological Habit Patterns in Linguistic Transmogrification" (I'm changing my metaphor, alas) — as "a vast allegorical painting called 'The Triumph of the Nouns.'" Here's Cowley:

The whole sad situation leads me to dream of a vast allegorical painting called "The Triumph of the Nouns." It would depict a chariot of victory drawn by the other conquered parts of speech — the adverbs and adjectives still robust, if yoked and harnessed; the prepositions bloated and pale; the conjunctions tortured; the pronouns reduced to sexless skeletons; the verbs dichotomized and feebly tottering — while behind them, arrogant, overfed, roseate, spilling over the triumphal car, would be the company of nouns in Roman togas and Greek chitons, adorned with laurel branches and flowering hegemonies.​

It does do my heart good, happily, to see your own prose hum to a much more "STlyish" tune.

Styles

 

[Bones]

"Sociological Habit Patterns in Linguistic Transmogrification"

That's a scream, Styles, especially after the day I had wrenching words. It's also quite illuminating, as my previous understanding of transmogrification was largely a function of my admiration of a visionary named Calvin.

 

[deanrd]

Got a link, Dean? I'll forward it.

Sorry Bones,. I went back to the site and did some searching, but couldn't come up with anything.

 

[sherob]

Love Calvin and Hobbes!!! :bow1:

 

[dteel]

Ah, I've always admired wordsmiths greatly. I have found though that they are best enjoyed in small doses.

It’s a sad fact that here at work I have the reputation of being the wordsmith to go to; when subjected to such stunning feats as those above, I’m convinced that I’m not state of the art.

Bones, it’s consumer activism like yours that may eventually lead to change at a company.

To those that think that deriving useful information from the internet is easy, I would challenge you to rethink your position. IMHO the information is poorly documented, frequently opinions based on little or no personal experience and false ranting for no purpose at all. I guess what is found might be useful, but I’d be hesitant to base business decisions on it. Then again I’m an electrical engineer not a MBA.

I saw a sign in the window of a late model Toyota Tundra yesterday on the commute home that said, “Toyota of El Cajon screwed me”. I really wanted to stop the guy and ask him is story. Pretty effective.

 

[ccryder]

Interesting reply from the corporate mouthpiece. They have to carefully phrase their words to CYA.

I really like my PR's, I'm on my 3rd set. They are a great all around tire. As far as the tar snakes, they are MUCH better (IMHO) than the Avons or 020's.

Maybe you can ask the Michlein "Man" when the PR2's will be stateside?

Thx
Neil S.

 

[SteveST1300]

Seems like we should have all been e-mailing Michelin instead of posting our noise complaints here they may have been addressed much sooner.

 

[Bones]

Maybe you can ask the Michlein "Man" when the PR2's will be stateside?

Regarding PR2s, I got this from Dave @ Motorace (Michelin distributor in US, who provided the test sets of PRs that Curt and I reviewed in 2005):

They are not in Michelin US 2007 catalog. We do know about them as they were discussed at the Competition Meeting in Orlando in February.

We MAY see them late this season. MAY. But for 2008 I think we can count on it.

The design looks like a 2CT Pilot Power, and is based upon similar
technology. It will be a quiet tire - the Powers are for sure.

Hopefully - it comes in Vstrom 1000 sizes for my bike....

 

[Bones]

Whether the Pilot Road 2 sings a softer tune, the PR Hum goes on at Michelin.

The first Michelin customer relations guy (Eddie Styles) appears to have forwarded my emails to a second Michelin customer relations guy (John...no last name indicated):

Scott,
Thank you for your email. We appreciate the opportunity to serve you. The pilot road 2 has the latest technology and should deliver better marks across the board. Thanks for choosing Michelin.
​

Since none of the issues I raised is addressed specifically, this response confirms that job one at Michelin customer relations is Toe the Line. Surprising, no, but disappointing. I wonder if any of their customer relations people ride motorcycles? (I've asked...more if I find out.) I also wonder whether the five sets of question-and-response about the issues constitute "official contact" regarding the noise issue? Doubtful, because then they could not continue to deny the noise issue out of hand.

EDIT:
Here's my latest request for information:

John (Lastname),
I wonder is there a member of your consumer relations team who rides a motorcycle? If so, would that person be willing and able to address the topics I've raised? I feel like all I'm getting is the company line. Perhaps I shouldn't be surprised, but I am disappointed.
Scott Williams

 

[georgeorge]

Unfortunately, at this point, I think that the PR2's may hum just as mush as the PR's because if they were in fact quieter, whether or not they know, they would at least tell you what they think you'd like to hear. Thanks for using Michelin in the past and yes we think you'll be happy with the improvements in sound with this tire. That would cover their not knowing butts and make a customer happy, but I'm afraid that John must know that this new tire is no better than the PR's in the noise department and therefore is dodging the issue.
What really sux is that there's not even any reason to dodge the issue. He could just tell the customer that the noise is the cost for better wet traction and that would make most happy and be honest at the same time. But he apparently can't be bothered enough to type a response.