Michelin Pilot Road 4

[970mike]

[QUOTE;1766720]My 4900 mile trip last 2 weeks I made a point of putting all the twisties I could in, rode to Harrisonburg VA took a lot of back roads through PA, next day part of skyline drive and on the 29 to SC. After a days work slab to AR onto TX. Coming form TX took back roads up to the ozarks onto WI. Overall must have been 60% slab. My PR3 was give or take the same and had no trouble getting 13000.... Front is more worn on sides and the rear sides are scalloped a bit. Maybe there is a quality issue as a couple other riders only got 7000 out of them.

Dont know, but when I fit my new set over weekend will have a look.

[/QUOTE]

Wow that is some great roads to wear out your tires, I am glad that I did not try the PR4's as they would not last the way I ride on the roads I ride. Sounds like the Bridgestone T30 tires are getting some good reviews.

 

[Appalachian]

We were offered a couple of sets of new skins by one of the sponsors of our last multi-day street skills clinic we conduct on road courses/tracks. On our two K13S' we typically run PR3's as they are, if nothing else, a stellar rain tyre, and we run rain or shine. We decided to try some new offerings, and fitted one with PR4's, and the other Angels. We had one very hot and dry day, and one cool and very wet day, so we really got to put them both to the test, especially when we had open track time for instructors only. IM (and 4 other professional's) O:
- PR3's are as good, if not better in rain when NON straight line performance is a priority
- PR4 front is more stable under hard braking, and wears cleaner/less scalloping in the middle third than the PR3
- PR3 rear is noticeably more stable at deep angles, under hard throttle, than the PR4
- PR4 rear wears cleaner/less scalloping on the outside thirds than the PR3
- PR4 front tracks better at deep lean/open road speeds, especially as you chip away at the tread depth due to the reduced scalloping on the outside thirds
- PR3's take noticeably less time to reach optimum traction temps, especially in cool/wet conditions

The interesting thing is that we all agreed on the PR3 vs PR4 - yet were a wildly mixed lot regarding the Angels. The one thing I have found with consistency, and really like about the Pirelli Sport and Sport-Touring tyres is how well they communicate thresholds, and how gently/linearly and predictably they drift when being pushed beyond it. The PR 2-4 series don't do that nearly as well in my experience. I'll put PR4's on the two bikes I put long boring miles on, and keep to the 3's for now on the street bikes I play/work hard on.

 

[the Ferret]

Ive brought that up often Valkman when people say they have been religious about running 42 # " checked before every ride". And I ask but how do you know your gauge is accurate ( apparently you have a certified gauge to compare to, most of us do not). I have 3 gauges and all 3 read differently over a 4# range. Now one is a analog Accuguage " guaranteed" to be accurate with 1/4 pound, but I can only take it at its word and it's probably 5 years old, so is it's word still good? Lol.

The other day I took my accugauge down to my local motorcycle shop to see how it compared to theirs. They were using pencil gauges to check tire pressure lol. 99 cent pencil gauges. So much for that.

Does anyone know WHO could accurately measure a gauge?

 

[Appalachian]

[QUOTE;1768154]http://www.fmca.com/polks-top-7/2632-polks-top-7-tips-for-tire-pressure-gauge-accuracy

This article is for a motorhome, but the rules apply to us. Interesting.

The fact is that our tires will increase pressure up to 5 pounds as the tire warms and its temp will also be affected by ambient temp, road surface and loading. In my case i was running higher than normal and the wear strip was thinner than I had seen before on other tires...So it was for sure my fault. I guess I should have noticed or paid more attention not only to the pressure but the wear pattern.

This link says that digital ones tend to be more accurate. I guess I was expecting more from the PR4, but my OEM tires only lasted 4500 miles so what should I expect...If I had kept the pressure down a bit i am sure it would be good for a few k more,.[/QUOTE]

Tires are supposed to gain pressure with temp - that's why we are only supposed to use cold/ambient readings as a baseline. The good TPM systems, like the OEM BMW system, actually compensate for temp change and report to the rider what the compensated/virtual cold pressure equates to - the values stay the same throughout the ride +/- a lb if all remains normal and consistent. The tires are changing pressure significantly with heat, but the system compensates and gives you information that remains consistent to what we can easily understand without the distraction of trying to calculate it ourselves. Some systems will show actual pressure and temperature, leaving you to make calculations while riding to figure out if there has been an effective change in pressure - that's a distraction I care to do without.

Edit: one other advantage of the TPM systems that give calculated readings based on temp is that you can use them to modify the pressure of a warm tire accurately, using cold temp metrics.

 

[BakerBoy]

To me, I don't particularly care if a TPMS displays adjusted pressure or actual pressure... either is sufficient info to confirm that I don't have a tire going down.

 

[Appalachian]

We were offered a couple of sets of new skins by one of the sponsors of our last multi-day street skills clinic we conduct on road courses/tracks. On our two K13S' we typically run PR3's as they are, if nothing else, a stellar rain tyre, and we run rain or shine. We decided to try some new offerings, and fitted one with PR4's, and the other Angels. We had one very hot and dry day, and one cool and very wet day, so we really got to put them both to the test, especially when we had open track time for instructors only. IM (and 4 other professional's) O:
- PR3's are as good, if not better in rain when NON straight line performance is a priority
- PR4 front is more stable under hard braking, and wears cleaner/less scalloping in the middle third than the PR3
- PR3 rear is noticeably more stable at deep angles, under hard throttle, than the PR4
- PR4 rear wears cleaner/less scalloping on the outside thirds than the PR3
- PR4 front tracks better at deep lean/open road speeds, especially as you chip away at the tread depth due to the reduced scalloping on the outside thirds
- PR3's take noticeably less time to reach optimum traction temps, especially in cool/wet conditions

The interesting thing is that we all agreed on the PR3 vs PR4 - yet were a wildly mixed lot regarding the Angels. The one thing I have found with consistency, and really like about the Pirelli Sport and Sport-Touring tyres is how well they communicate thresholds, and how gently/linearly and predictably they drift when being pushed beyond it. The PR 2-4 series don't do that nearly as well in my experience. I'll put PR4's on the two bikes I put long boring miles on, and keep to the 3's for now on the street bikes I play/work hard on.

One additional bit - we concur with the RT1200RT review that panned the PR4 for feeling heavy/slow to turn at sub counter steer speeds. The most colorful comment among the lot was to the effect of: It's amazing how a seemingly proper tyre can transform low speed handling of a sporty (K13S) into what I can only imagine a K12LT with lorry tyres would feel like. I was going to try them on the Bird, but...

[QUOTE;1768011]UPDATE: I have used the same pressure gauge since fitting these. I swear by a digital one, but this got used and lost by my son and I have been using an analog one that fits easily onto the valve stem. As I mentioned, I ran; after reading on this forum, that 44 might be better for the load I have when touring. So I tried it, the only issue when I got a new digital gauge yesterday I found that my analog one was 3 pounds higher than indicated, now when I put 44 in the rear I was actually putting 47 psi!

This would explain why the center has worn faster as there is a smaller contact patch. I have my new PR4 on now and I will keep it as I did my PR3 at 42 cold and see how it goes, with the trips I have planned I should know in 3 months if it is better. I have tested the new digital gauge and its spot on with the calibrated unit we use at work. Front tire is good less than half worn compared to my new one. I have left it one for the first time as I always change both normally, buy I have a 2500 mile trip I am leaving on the 12th to Atlanta to meet a fellow STer and ride the dragon and whole blue-ridge parkway home with him. I will be able to see then how they are doing.

I really think they are a great tire, just I screwed up..[/QUOTE]

+12% (from recommended) is a significant difference. It will also make the tyre run a little cooler (less carcass flex) which could in some conditions (cool/wet) significantly steel from your potential available traction.

 

[playinatwork]

On a side note, I plugged a rearPR4 yesterday and it was the hardest tire to plug I've ever done. It was all I could do to get the reamer into the tire.

 

[deepsea285]

Appalachian,
I'm debating between the PR4 GT's and the Pirelli Angel GT's. With all the reviews and comments previously listed, it sounds like the PR4's are a mixed bag right now. I'm in North GA and enjoy the twisties more than the slab, but do relegate my ST to commute duties sometime too. I am leaning to the Pirelli's more. Did you ever put these on yours?

 

[jonjonboo]

[quote;1773850]As mentioned earlier, wore my first PR4 out[/quote]
how about letting us know how many miles of use it became wore out.

 

[the Ferret]

I have 8000 on mine now. Just returned from 4 days of West Virginia twisties. 2 days wet, 2 days dry. My tires still look great. Fellow on FJR I was riding with says he wants a set as soon as his Dunlops wear out. Won't be long.

 

[Outlaws]

FINLLY got a chance to get my ST out for a couple of days with the new PR4 rear. About 1000 mile, half slab, half spirinted twisties in tha Black Hills of South Dakota with a little rain thrown in.
Great tire, grip, seamless transion with no noticeable wear so far.
Everybody wants to know what the bike is except one rider at the new Indian shop in Sturgis from Texas up riding off road with friends. He had to check the odometer. Has a friend that has over 300,000 on his, should have asked him who???
I like this tire!

 

[Appalachian]

Appalachian,
I'm debating between the PR4 GT's and the Pirelli Angel GT's. With all the reviews and comments previously listed, it sounds like the PR4's are a mixed bag right now. I'm in North GA and enjoy the twisties more than the slab, but do relegate my ST to commute duties sometime too. I am leaning to the Pirelli's more. Did you ever put these on yours?

Have run the GT's on the K13S and Norge and been quite pleased. They woke the front end of the Norge up noticeably! The Angels and prior Diablo Stratas were not made for the odd size front when I owned my ST13.

 

[SMSW]

If I get 5,000 miles per 2/32 wear, that should put the rear getting about 15,000 with 2/32 tread remaining. That would be great, and just what I was hoping for.

It is my understanding from car tire wear, that the decrease in tread is not linear with distance. In other words, you will get more miles out of the first 1/32" than out of the last 1/32". It has something to do with the resistance of the tread to squirming when you role the tire under load. I'm not sure on this - this is what I vaguely remember.

 

[the Ferret]

It is my understanding from car tire wear, that the decrease in tread is not linear with distance. In other words, you will get more miles out of the first 1/32" than out of the last 1/32". It has something to do with the resistance of the tread to squirming when you role the tire under load. I'm not sure on this - this is what I vaguely remember.

Yea that's how it now seems to be going. At 8500 miles I am down to 4/32, so the last 2/32 only lasted 3000 miles (which included about 1300 miles of twisty fun in West Virginia two days of which were in the rain). Tire still looks good. Should last as long if not longer than the 2 previous PR 3s which went 11,231 and 11,215 miles. Doubt I'll get the advertised 20% more out of it. Before that a PR2 went 8344 miles and the original Bridgestone went 8156 miles.

Front tire still measures 4/32 and looks great with no cupping.

Very happy so far

 

[Appalachian]

It is my understanding from car tire wear, that the decrease in tread is not linear with distance. In other words, you will get more miles out of the first 1/32" than out of the last 1/32". It has something to do with the resistance of the tread to squirming when you role the tire under load. I'm not sure on this - this is what I vaguely remember.

As the tire wears its circumference becomes continuously smaller so it does more rotations and generates more heat per mile traveled.

 

[wihardy]

Well after a slashed sidewall at 65mph and a very quick slow down (praise to God not a "go down"). My PR3 was shot, after trailering MiSTress home and swapping out to the old rubber I had left on the garage wall I was back on the road. The problem is that the old tire I put back on has a plug in it and I didn't want to press my luck too hard so I got on line and RevZilla had the PR4s for sale and with my RevZilla bucks it made the purchase less painful. We'll have to see if the PR4s work as well as my PR3s did. I liked them very much. Oh by the way I got the GT version of the PR4s.

 

[caldercay]

I'm debating between the PR4 GT's and the Pirelli Angel GT's

Really like the Angel GT's. On a recent trip to a mini-vacation (MV) spot, ran through a "medium" storm (2-up) ... handles great on the wet.
On the last day of the MV, woke up at 7:30am to see on the weather radar, horrendous storms moving in the direction that we would be heading back home.

We beat it for the most part, but spent about 45min-hour in a constant downpour. Angels worked flawlessly in the wet ... confidence-inspiring.

 

[Appalachian]

Really like the Angel GT's. On a recent trip to a mini-vacation (MV) spot, ran through a "medium" storm (2-up) ... handles great on the wet.
On the last day of the MV, woke up at 7:30am to see on the weather radar, horrendous storms moving in the direction that we would be heading back home.

We beat it for the most part, but spent about 45min-hour in a constant downpour. Angels worked flawlessly in the wet ... confidence-inspiring.

The Angel GT is a brilliant rain tyre, second only to the PR4 in wet conditions by a small margin. A Euro publication recently tested the likely suspects in this segment and found several models to exceed or run on par with the PR4 in dry conditions - the Conti RoadAttack 2 EVO scoring the superior marks by a fair margin.

I find it intriguing when I ask advanced/experienced riders (students) how they arrive at tyre choices. The touring/sport touring types most often say "best wet traction" or "mileage". When I drill down, it becomes apparent that most only find themselves in wet conditions, honestly, for about 5% or less of their total miles. I then ask "why are you all here?" to which the unanimous reply is "to ride safer". I then ask "if you're safety conscious riders, then you probably already reduce your pace, and increase your following distances by at least 15-20%, yes?" to which all nod affirmatively. I continue "if so, assuming your base line for following distance is appropriate to begin with, you have already adequately compensated for the difference between a decent, and a great street rain tyre, where the great rain tyres generally don't offer the best traction/braking in dry conditions where you spend VAST majority of your miles in the saddle". "How many have crashed a cycle on the street?" to which usually about 60% or more raise their hand. "Were any of those crashes directly related to wet conditions?" at which time, in most cases, all hands go down. Hmmm, room goes quiet for a bit. I then add that wet conditions are scored as a significant factor in less than 5% of crashes leading to fatality in North America and Europe as a seg-way into discussing the more prolific factors.........

Even in the most dedicated crowd, as this generally is, it's uncommon for any of us to spend more than 20% of our total miles in wet conditions. I ride 320+ days a year, all year, and I'm quite positive that I don't cover 20% of my total miles in wet conditions - and the eastern portion of this country and the UK where I accumulate most of those isn't notoriously dry. So why do so many choose to sacrifice dry traction, for wet - is the marketing really that good? Coastal PNW and UK riders, sure... but what about the rest? It is an unfortunate, and significant disadvantage ST1300 owners are burdened with as the answer probably lies largely in lack of selection due to its mass and obscure front wheel. I'm glad to see Pirelli finally producing a fit, although it appears the Conti EVO is not yet an option.

Ride safe, mates ;-)

 

[KiwiMark]

So why do so many choose to sacrifice dry traction, for wet - is the marketing really that good? Coastal PNW and UK riders, sure... but what about the rest?

I wouldn't consider any tires that have excellent wet traction to be poor for dry traction, even if there may be others with even better dry traction.
I prioritise wet traction because in the dry it is so very rare to feel a scary twitch which makes my sphincter sharply contract, but in the wet . . .
Another tire can be better in the dry all it want, the fact is that I don't have a problem with traction in the dry.
If I had to make an emergency stop in the dry I could stop very fast indeed, in the wet I could see the traction limit being more of a problem.

Of course I take it easy in the wet, braking earlier & more gently and so forth.
But having tires that I know are amongst the best for wet traction gives me a lot of comfort, I like being less nervous.
Where I live we do get some ridiculously slippery tar snakes and some painted lines are scary in the wet.
I ride 52 weeks a year and it is currently winter, there are plenty of wet days where I find myself riding on wet roads.

 

[Uncle Phil]

Where I live we do get some ridiculously slippery tar snakes and some painted lines are scary in the wet.
I ride 52 weeks a year and it is currently winter, there are plenty of wet days where I find myself riding on wet roads.

You ain't kidding about that one! I learned very quickly when the sign said 'slippery when wet' they were not kidding. ;-)