New to ST1300, not as fun in the tight corners versus DL1000

[scharfg]

Hi folks, I'm currently on my first long trip (6000 miles) with a new to me '06 ST1300, seeking out twisty backroads in WA/OR/CA/AZ/NM. I'll be heading back to British Columbia shortly.

I've also recently done 3 shorter multi day rides in British Columbia on my DL1000 with adventure style 50/50 tires (just retired in April).

On the DL I corner with glee and much joy, on the ST I'm not having the same exhilarating experience, especially in the tighter 15-20 mile/hour corners (like Angel Crest Hwy or the road from Leggett CA west to the number 1). I did have some fun on the less aggressive corners on the 89 coming into Prescott AZ yesterday.

Is my lack of twisty joy on the ST versus the DL due to it being 110lbs more when loaded (770lbs versus 660lbs DL), or....?

I feel the DL is more "flickable" in the corners at speed.

Also I noticed on the ST when I lean the bike over the first thing to touch the pavement is the toes of my boot, not the peg feeler, is that normal (I replaced the stock pegs with Goldwing pegs as they are a bit wider and I was told a bit lower)?

At this point my plan is to sell the ST and come back next year to ride the same roads on my DL with more street orientated tires to compare. I can ride similar distances every day on the DL as I've been doing on the ST on this trip (~500 miles/day).

I live in a remote community so we don't have much for used bikes to test ride so my purchases are based on much internet comparison research.

I was also wondering if the Yamaha Tracer 9 GT would be a suitable replacement for the ST (ie: lighter sport tourer for fun in the tight twisties)?

Or would a lighter older FJR (with risers for a more upright comfortable position as I'm almost 59 years old) be a less expensive option over the revamped Tracer 9 and heavier ST?

Thanks so much for your valued perspectives!

 

[motornut]

The thing I have seen with the motorcycles for the last several years is they all ride ok at speed, but the slow speed is where it all changes- just like you are saying.
I have a 2018 Concours and a 04 ST. Definitely 2 different animals, the Connie I run out of tire before hard parts touch and the music starts as soon as the wrist twists and doesn't really stop playing until around 145 or so. But it is TALL and sucks at slow speed, The ST is at the other end of the sport touring group and it shows, the slow speed stability is not as bad as the connie, but the pegs are further forward which is easier to ride for me.
But really, for you if the 1000 gives you what you want, it is going to be a lot less weight and give you a bunch of options of places to go. I have looked at a bunch of gravel roads an wanted to putt down them to see what's there.
I have been a street rider since the early 70s and changing over to an adventure bike is not in my future, maybe about 20 years ago that would have been an idea. Now that I have an electric windshield I am way to spoiled.
The Connie, the ST, and I am fairly sure the FJR aren't built for parking lots. But they will cover alot of miles at fairly high rate of speed without working hard
It sounded like you had kind of decided what you were going to do and I hope I gave you a bit of impressions that I have had

 

[Mellow]

Hi folks, I'm currently on my first long trip (6000 miles) with a new to me '06 ST1300, seeking out twisty backroads in WA/OR/CA/AZ/NM. I'll be heading back to British Columbia shortly.

I've also recently done 3 shorter multi day rides in British Columbia on my DL1000 with adventure style 50/50 tires (just retired in April).

On the DL I corner with glee and much joy, on the ST I'm not having the same exhilarating experience, especially in the tighter 15-20 mile/hour corners (like Angel Crest Hwy or the road from Leggett CA west to the number 1). I did have some fun on the less aggressive corners on the 89 coming into Prescott AZ yesterday.

Is my lack of twisty joy on the ST versus the DL due to it being 110lbs more when loaded (770lbs versus 660lbs DL), or....?

I feel the DL is more "flickable" in the corners at speed.

Also I noticed on the ST when I lean the bike over the first thing to touch the pavement is the toes of my boot, not the peg feeler, is that normal (I replaced the stock pegs with Goldwing pegs as they are a bit wider and I was told a bit lower)?

At this point my plan is to sell the ST and come back next year to ride the same roads on my DL with more street orientated tires to compare. I can ride similar distances every day on the DL as I've been doing on the ST on this trip (~500 miles/day).

I live in a remote community so we don't have much for used bikes to test ride so my purchases are based on much internet comparison research.

I was also wondering if the Yamaha Tracer 9 GT would be a suitable replacement for the ST (ie: lighter sport tourer for fun in the tight twisties)?

Or would a lighter older FJR (with risers for a more upright comfortable position as I'm almost 59 years old) be a less expensive option over the revamped Tracer 9 and heavier ST?

Thanks so much for your valued perspectives!

The ST is a heavy bike and takes some getting used to... 100lbs lighter makes a huge difference on the DL and the wider handlebars and different seating position. As many have said here it's more on the Touring side vs the Sport side but many times the pilot makes all the difference...

My RT is a little lighter than the ST and I can tell however, I had a Tracer 900 GT before the RT and that felt like a toy it was so light. The DL will feel heavy after riding a Tracer I really should have kept that bike as a 2nd one but the bmw dealership gave me an insane trade it quote that I never expected.

I sat on an FJR when I was looking at the RT and it felt very heavy to me just sitting on it and getting it off the sidestand vs the RT.... honestly, I never rode an FJR so that's worthless.

Always test ride whatever you're interested in, even if you have to take a trip to do it...

 

[jfheath]

At one third of a tonne the ST1300 is never going to fall into the category of 'flickable'.

If toes touch the ground then change your foot position on the pegs.

Then take a look at this or just search for 'police st1300 obstacle course' for similar videos.

 

[Mellow]

At one third of a tonne the ST1300 is never going to fall into the category of 'flickable'.

If toes touch the ground then change your foot position on the pegs.

Then take a look at this.

But... show speed obstacle course riding and riding in mtn roads are two different things requiring two different techniques. I don't even practice the slow speed stuff as I want to keep my clutch healthy lol

 

[Sadlsor]

Maybe some of you old farts would appreciate a KTM 390 Duke.
Or not.
It IS highly flickable.
But not so great for 500 mile day rides.
In my experience, much of riding - as like life - is a compromise.
I like riding my 1300 everywhere there's pavement, but there may come a day (when I'm 97) that it becomes too heavy for me to enjoy as much.

 

[Larry Fine]

Is my lack of twisty joy on the ST versus the DL due to it being 110lbs more when loaded (770lbs versus 660lbs DL), or....?

I could be due to steering geometry. Try raising the rear suspension a bit, like 1/2" to 3/4".

That made a huge improvement in reduced steering effort with my '01 1100.

Also I noticed on the ST when I lean the bike over the first thing to touch the pavement is the toes of my boot, not the peg feeler, is that normal?

Normal for me. Longer legs tilt the toes downwards, and I can't pull my feet back.

 

[jfheath]

But... show speed obstacle course riding and riding in mtn roads are two different things requiring two different techniques. I don't even practice the slow speed stuff as I want to keep my clutch healthy lol

No, me neither. I shy away from it really - if I want to turn it round I find somewhere wide enough or shuffle it round in a three point turn. My legs easily flat feet on both sides and I can stand up without touching the saddle. But the confidence and ability of these riders is amazing.

And as for keeping my toes on the footpeg, I got told off for not doing that by my police instructor, but it tucks my legs too far back and they will cramp more easily. If I feel that my toes will touch on a hairpin bend, I raise them up. A bit like I planned in my avatar. It would have been a good photo had the photographer not got in the way !

Interesting phenomenon on the on board camera on that shot. The on board video camera caught the flash reflecting of the fairing to the right of the headlamp, but in the same frame, the photographers flash was not firing. Finite speed of light.

 

[JohninVT]

I don’t know what generation V-Strom you had but they don’t weigh 660. My old 2012 was 525 ready to ride so a full 200lbs lighter than my ST. Curb weight is 525 vs 720 so loaded equally they’re still 200lbs apart. Of course it’s more nimble. The 19” front wheel of the Strom helps as well. I really liked my Strom once I fitted a Madstad and giant Cee Bailey windscreen but weather protection is still better on the ST. So is the braking and the front forks. Riding solo, comfort is a wash between the two, IMHO. I’d love a new 1050 with cruise control but not for 15k. If you ride any gravel at all the Strom is better than the ST. If you want to run 80mph all day in fast sweepers or the interstate, especially with a passenger, there’s no comparison. The ST is superior in that environment.

They’re both fantastic bikes. Liking one over the other is very understandable and it’s great we have so many choices. As for the potential bikes you mentioned; the ST feels significantly less topheavy to me than the Strom. The FJR feels more topheavy than either. Despite it being lighter than the ST they’re more awkward for me in a parking lot or my gravel driveway. That being said, they’re stupid fast, handle great and go forever. I’d like to own one at some point. Newer ones also have cruise control but cost 2-3 times used what an ST does. The Tracer GT and GT+ look like an amazing value but I haven’t ridden one yet. Good luck in your search and stay safe on your ride!

 

[Upt' North]

I think you've found what kind of bike you like. Stick with it and ride the tyres off it.
Physics is Physics.
Upt and very pleased with my DL.

 

[core-aggie]

You're comparing two completely different beasts. If you want "flickable", or whatever it's called these days, the ST is not.

 

[scharfg]

Hello folks, thanks so much for all your great insights/replies, very helpful.

I have a 2014 Gen 2 DL, owned new since 2016 and have 40k miles on it, been to Utah, Yukon and Alaska 3x on it so I'm quite familiar with it. I've done 500 mile days on it as well, at those distances I sometimes get a sore muscle in my back whereas I don't have that with the ST.

The two bike weights were on the same commercial transport highway scale when the bikes were loaded up for multi day trips so they may not be super accurate but they are relative to each other (the ST does have 2.5 gallons more fuel weight).

I have an aftermarket screen on the DL so I'm in a quiet air bubble. When I first took off on the trip with the ST I was hating life as I could only get the quiet bubble with the screen so high I was looking through it, which I don't like to do. But then I started to appreciate being able to have more wind in the face/body when I hit 100F temps in CA/AZ! I just turned the music up louder.

I'm using the Butler motorcycle map series to navigate to the twisty back roads and every day in OR and CA I've had to turn around and re-route because the roads have either become so rough with pot holes/broken pavement or turned to gravel (map showed pavement), so the DL would be a huge advantage in these situations.

On the #1 in CA my GPS said to turn onto China Mountain Road (bad advice!), after about 200 yards the road turned to gravel and there was a gate, so I did a slow turn around very aware of the bike's weight. As I was almost finished duck walking the bike through the turn the rear tire washed out in the compact gravel and down the bike went! Luckily it was on the left side so I could use the center stand assist bar. But I couldn't get it up with all the travel/camping/tank bag gear. After I unloaded everything I was able get her in the upright position, since then I've been Uber aware of the weight ever time I come to a stop or a slow turn. Thank goodness for the side bars which kept the bike from going all the way over!

That's not to say I've not had the odd "sleeping bike" issue with the heavily loaded DL. In August we had just finished climbing a rocky road mountain pass in the Kootenays in BC (Grey Creek Pass, everyone must ride the Kootenay area, bucket list roads and you are close to Alberta's famous Rocky Mountain Ice Field Parkway), I got to the top where it levelled out and I was so exhausted from standing on the pegs navigating the baby heads/cobbles that when I slowed down and turned the bike to stop for a photo it fell over! Luckily there was another rider as I could not upright the bike when I tried (all the travel gear was still on the bike).

Thank you also for the info about the FJR being top heavy, I was asking because there is one about 1.5 hours from the house for only $3800 CND so about $2k US , a 2005 well maintained with 80k miles on it, seemed liked a small $ risk to be able to try a lighter well respected sports tourer, but I don't think it's the answer...

A few years ago I owned a 2008 Bandit 1250 hoping it's freight train like torque and better corner handling than my 2005 Vulcan 1500 cruiser would give me even more twisty pleasure (I really enjoyed touring twisty roads in the western US on that bike putting 70k miles on it before selling and getting into adventure riding), but alas it was not, so I sold it. Now I'm wondering how it would compare to the ST being lighter and having more torquee low down in the revs.....

I have a reputation for looking for the unicorn bike in the different riding styles (I also own a CB500x, DRZ400, DL650 (rode to Mexico and it's stored there), and I just sold a DR650 after one ride (11 day retirement ADV ride to/around Baja in April), so perhaps my DL is more "unicorny" than I realized!

With any luck I'll have my answer after I re-ride the WA/OR/CA twisty parts of the route next year!

Like you say, very fortunate to have choices!

Thanks again and ride safe folks....

 

[Sadlsor]

You didn't mention any KTMs, and I was kind of joking about the 390 Duke. Kind of.
Sounds like a 7- or 890 might scratch that unicorn itch.
Have you tried those yet?

 

[Cincykz]

Everyone's unicorn is a bit different, and even your unicorn might change year to year. I have had two st-13s and love them, but lately my favorite bike has been my nt700v (with some nice comfort/touring mods). So much so, that it might end up my only bike. I know that 10 years ago, I never would have been content with 50hp.

The new 1050 Strom looks to be a sweet bike. If a good enough deal fell in my lap, I'd try one for sure.

 

[Jethro]

Everyone's unicorn is a bit different, and even your unicorn might change year to year. I have had two st-13s and love them, but lately my favorite bike has been my nt700v (with some nice comfort/touring mods). So much so, that it might end up my only bike. I know that 10 years ago, I never would have been content with 50hp.

The new 1050 Strom looks to be a sweet bike. If a good enough deal fell in my lap, I'd try one for sure.

Entirely the scenario l fell into on an impromptu demo ride.Bought the VStrom.Fantastic bike.

 

[scharfg]

You didn't mention any KTMs, and I was kind of joking about the 390 Duke. Kind of.
Sounds like a 7- or 890 might scratch that unicorn itch.
Have you tried those yet?

I’ve looked hard at the KTMs, and would have had a 690 over the DRZ but I could not get past where the gas filler access is as I always mount a tail box to my bikes so no access.

I’m unfortunately not mechanically capable so have stuck to the Japanese bikes for their reliability and low maintenance requirements.

I was looking forward to the 490 coming out as a possible replacement for the DRZ and CB500X but KTM have cancelled that idea.

 

[motornut]

I picked up a 250 Kawasaki for my wife to try out and it was so much fun I rode it the most. Remember when a 650 was enough to ride across the USA, it still is. I get wrapped up in engine size as much as anybody. Spotted 650 at Kawasaki and is perfect UJM, Light and really no reason to be out grown either. Not mentioning KTM either, a friend loved his Super Duke when it was out of shop, PS he bought it new and had it about a year.

 

[scharfg]

I've been chasing the "no replacement for displacement" feeling for a long time having sold smaller displacement bikes when I tried a larger cc bike (ie: went to the 1500 Vulcan after a 2 week western States riding my 750 Honda ACE, went to the '14 DL1000 after the '09 DL650, went to the '08 DRZ400 after the '13 CRF250L), so I fully understand the attraction of the KTMs and would probably own 1/more if I wasn't such a mechanical newb...

I also prefer the older bikes with less electronic gadgetry which is probably a function of my advancing age and challenge figuring it out (I am starting to be my parents who always had "12:00" flashing on their VCR ).

Ps: I very much appreciate the stability a heavier bike provides in high winds and when travelling around semi trucks at high speeds!

 

[Sadlsor]

I have the same (mild) consternation about the techno-wizardry, believe me, having paid for a '22 1250 GSA... and those new Beemers have electronic gadgetry in spades.
Fortunately, on ADVrider they have the Teutonic near-equivalents of our own beloved @aniwack and @Igofar so hopefully I can muddle through, as I have here with the infamous SMC.
Yes, yes, dear children -- I am sufficiently aware of the differences in electric and mechanical foibles.
Mechanics is mechanics, ...but then there's alternating and direct current, which are largely FM to me.
No, not frequency modulation, but Freakin' Magic. I mean, we can SEE bearings and slave cylinders, but who among us have ever seen a real, live proton? Or an electron?
Now in truth, I have seen some morons, but usually when I look in a mirror.

 

[diferg]

Mechanics is mechanics, ...but then there's alternating and direct current, which are largely FM to me.
No, not frequency modulation, but Freakin' Magic

Over here we speak of PFM !