Newbie Question RE ST13 Brake Problems

[Mick]

As a possible, soon to be ST1300 owner, I've been reading the numerous threads about the rear brake/SMC problems. I have some questions that will hopefully get answered before I pull the trigger on a purchase (have to make a decision REAL soon).


1. How common is this problem? Reading so many posts about this one suject leaves the impression that it's all but inevitable that an ST13 Owner will experience this.

2. Has Honda ever done anything about this and fixed it in the later year models?

3. Are certain years more prone to it than others?

4. What the heck happened to Honda! The second generation ST1100's, of which I owned three, were practially bullet proof!

Color me spooked.

 

[scooterdoc]

mick,

imnsho, i just got an 2007. had the smc issue. bottom line i feel is this. i would have no problem recommending the bike. i would buy another one tomorrow if this one went away. does it have it's quirks...yes. does it have it's maintenance issues...yes. but, with the number of six digit odometer st's on this forum, it is i think the best all-around sport tourer on the planet. and oh, bye the way, once you go through the braking system, it really is not that big of a deal. i would much rather do maintenance on my st than my old hayabusa.

my .02
sd

As a possible, soon to be ST1300 owner, I've been reading the numerous threads about the rear brake/SMC problems. I have some questions that will hopefully get answered before I pull the trigger on a purchase (have to make a decision REAL soon).


1. How common is this problem? Reading so many posts about this one suject leaves the impression that it's all but inevitable that an ST13 Owner will experience this.

2. Has Honda ever done anything about this and fixed it in the later year models?

3. Are certain years more prone to it than others?

4. What the heck happened to Honda! The second generation ST1100's, of which I owned three, were practially bullet proof!

Color me spooked.

 

[Mick]

once you go through the braking system, it really is not that big of a deal

Could you elaborate by what you mean by going through the brake system?

 

[okmurdog]

The SMC problem is not as common as it may seem. Neither mine nor my wife's bike has experienced a problem with the SMC (knock on wood). I also know of several local ST13 that as far as I know also have not had a problem with the SMC.

The flip side is that if you do experience a problem with the SMC, it is pretty easy to diagnose.

 

[Gear driven]

Funny you mention this, I have a brand new o 10' and just got back from a a 900 mile trip and noticed that the rear pedal would sink away....occasionally. I suspected this has something to do with the Secondary master, especially since there is a recall on the Gold wing secondaries.

 

[Mick]

The flip side is that if you do experience a problem with the SMC, it is pretty easy to diagnose.

Just so long as you don't wind up making that diagnosis on the side of the road somewhere and find yourself stuck like at least one post I read on this board.

Like I said in my original post, I've got a decision to make and need to make it quickly. I've got a line on a low mileage '05A for a pretty good price. I'm purchasing this bike to do transcontinental travel with. It's got to be reliable. If it's simply a matter of doing routine maintenance to prevent the SMC problems, I'm OK with that. I haven't had time to read every thread/post on the subject yet so I don't know if that's the case. Can you tell me a little bit about what you know about how to prevent it?

 

[scooterdoc]

Could you elaborate by what you mean by going through the brake system?

with the help of this forum, the service manual, and some very cool people (Igofar), basically, all i did was completely disassemble all 4 calipers (LF, RF, SMC, and rear) front master, rear master. of all those, the only one that required new parts was the smc. but, all i did was disassemble, clean, grease and properly bleed the system. i replaced the pads with new, but just because i wanted to, not because i needed to, and it made me feel better. now the system works flawlessly. what i mean by "quirks" is soaking and cleaning the inner seals with brake fluid and the outer seals with grease. i recommend honda oem pads, but i really like oem parts. note; i was able to salvage the smc on mine as the bore was not pitted and corroded, it was limited to the plunger surface. if the bore is buggered, replace the assembly.
the braking system is actually quite simple, with pump, plumbing and fluid. the achilles heel is the bleeding procedure, which can't really be modified or short cuts taken. (wanna guess how i know?) bottom line is this, in less than 1 full days work, you can do the entire system from stem to stern. it is actually quite easy once you know the tricks. i hope this helps and doesn't raise more questions for you. pm me if you want my opinion, i am no subject matter expert, (lots of people here with more time on the st than me) but do feel that i can now help, or put you in contact with someone who can.

 

[Mellow]

Oh come on Mick, the ST1100 has it's issues as well. So does the 1300 and so will the next version of an ST Honda gives us. No one can guarantee a perfect bike w/no issues, ya pay the price and roll the dice. The good news is I don't believe any of the issues can't be dealt with and give you a dependable ride.

In 2008, the front calipers and pads were enlarged and the drain in the smc went from a hole to a slot, not sure how much of an affect that had but Honda must have felt it would.

 

[Mick]

Oh come on Mick, the ST1100 has it's issues as well.

The only issues mine had were that they needed oil & gas.

 

[Mellow]

The only issues mine had were that they needed oil & gas.

...many ST1300 can report the same...

 

[scooterdoc]

Can you tell me a little bit about what you know about how to prevent it?

pull front caliper. disassemble the smc. if it looks like mine did, rebuild/replace. then, put waterproof grease under the rubber cap and plunger. mine had no evidence of any pm being done on it what-so-ever. then, properly bleed the brakes, and you should be good to go. but like i said in another post, braking problems can come from a variety of different places, disassemble, inpect, clean, lubricate goes a LOOOONNG way. bottom line for me is, it's a great system. but like anything else, you have to do basic pm to prevent problems. the pm for the honda braking system is actually quite simple and easy to perform.

do what makes you comfortable. plenty of really good people here to help if you get stuck.

chris

 

[RealST]

pull front caliper. disassemble the smc. if it looks like mine did, rebuild/replace. then, put waterproof grease under the rubber cap and plunger. mine had no evidence of any pm being done on it what-so-ever. then, properly bleed the brakes, and you should be good to go. but like i said in another post, braking problems can come from a variety of different places, disassemble, inpect, clean, lubricate goes a LOOOONNG way. bottom line for me is, it's a great system. but like anything else, you have to do basic pm to prevent problems. the pm for the honda braking system is actually quite simple and easy to perform.

do what makes you comfortable. plenty of really good people here to help if you get stuck.

chris

OP - As Chris says above...You really want to meet some good people, get stuck on the side of the road...That's when this board lights up and you will see the Best of people come out.

 

[Mick]

pull front caliper. disassemble the smc. if it looks like mine did, rebuild/replace. then, put waterproof grease under the rubber cap and plunger. mine had no evidence of any pm being done on it what-so-ever. then, properly bleed the brakes, and you should be good to go. but like i said in another post, braking problems can come from a variety of different places, disassemble, inpect, clean, lubricate goes a LOOOONNG way. bottom line for me is, it's a great system. but like anything else, you have to do basic pm to prevent problems. the pm for the honda braking system is actually quite simple and easy to perform.

do what makes you comfortable. plenty of really good people here to help if you get stuck.

chris

Thanks Chris. This is the kind of input I was looking for.

All of this is kind of flying up in my face suddenly because I haven't kept track of the ST1300 much. Totally my own fault because my desire for another ST type bike is exactly one week old after seeing and extremely low mileage, 05 ST on craigslist (2600 miles). I later on found another that was a better deal pricewise. Anyway, because of this uncharacteristic, impulsive urge, I haven't had time to do my normal research. The brake thing wasn't something I knew about or obviously expected. The only negative things I'd read much about concerning the ST13 were the heat and the high speed weave.

 

[scooterdoc]

Thanks Chris. This is the kind of input I was looking for.

All of this is kind of flying up in my face suddenly because I haven't kept track of the ST1300 much. Totally my own fault because my desire for another ST type bike is exactly one week old after seeing and extremely low mileage, 05 ST on craigslist (2600 miles). I later on found another that was a better deal pricewise. Anyway, because of this uncharacteristic, impulsive urge, I haven't had time to do my normal research. The brake thing wasn't something I knew about or obviously expected. The only negative things I'd read much about concerning the ST13 were the heat and the high speed weave.

Mick, hope all this helps. btw, i just spent 4 hours in the saddle on saturday with temps starting at 104 and ending at 99 when i pulled into the garage. i wear jeans and race boots, and i really don't notice the heat. like i said, if i had to do it over again, i would. like you, i research the crap out of everything and nuke it down into the weeds. the honda won out over the connie and fjr. even after knowing the fjr for me was the more comfortable bike. BUT, how many of the other bikes can you do oil, oil filter, spark plugs, and air filter (aka routine maintenance) without removing any plastic. AND tip over protection...

just my 0pinion

 

[Igofar]

Funny you mention this, I have a brand new o 10' and just got back from a a 900 mile trip and noticed that the rear pedal would sink away....occasionally. I suspected this has something to do with the Secondary master, especially since there is a recall on the Gold wing secondaries.

Gear Driven, sinking away would indicate air in the system, not SMC failure.
Igofar

 

[Igofar]

with the help of this forum, the service manual, and some very cool people (Igofar), basically, all i did was completely disassemble all 4 calipers (LF, RF, SMC, and rear) front master, rear master. of all those, the only one that required new parts was the smc. but, all i did was disassemble, clean, grease and properly bleed the system. i replaced the pads with new, but just because i wanted to, not because i needed to, and it made me feel better. now the system works flawlessly. what i mean by "quirks" is soaking and cleaning the inner seals with brake fluid and the outer seals with grease. i recommend honda oem pads, but i really like oem parts. note; i was able to salvage the smc on mine as the bore was not pitted and corroded, it was limited to the plunger surface. if the bore is buggered, replace the assembly.
the braking system is actually quite simple, with pump, plumbing and fluid. the achilles heel is the bleeding procedure, which can't really be modified or short cuts taken. (wanna guess how i know?) bottom line is this, in less than 1 full days work, you can do the entire system from stem to stern. it is actually quite easy once you know the tricks. i hope this helps and doesn't raise more questions for you. pm me if you want my opinion, i am no subject matter expert, (lots of people here with more time on the st than me) but do feel that i can now help, or put you in contact with someone who can.

Very good advice weedhoppah. You were taught well.....thanks for paying it forward.

 

[NorCalBusa]

If it is helpful, my March 2012 ST1300 just turned 5ooo, all good so far. Keep in mind there are tens of thousands of ST1300's on the road, so measure the number of complaints in perspective.

Only biatch I have is the front axle pinch bolts were way over torqued- so much that I had to ruin them to get them out. Easy enough to fix (access doesn't get much better for EZ-Outs) and cheap (two bolts), but a bit irritating.

 

[NorCalBusa]

I think if you pay attention, you will find it does so only when you apply the front brake; then transition to only the rear- its normal. If that's not it- let us know.

Funny you mention this, I have a brand new o 10' and just got back from a a 900 mile trip and noticed that the rear pedal would sink away....occasionally. I suspected this has something to do with the Secondary master, especially since there is a recall on the Gold wing secondaries.

 

[Mick]

BUT, how many of the other bikes can you do oil, oil filter, spark plugs, and air filter (aka routine maintenance) without removing any plastic. AND tip over protection...

You know what really attracts me about the ST? The dang tip-over protection! Of all the things, that's always been a big selling point with me. I absolutely love the looks of the FJR but about all you can do is install one of those frame sliders and there is no pannier protection available that I know of. Connie 14?... don't like the KIPASS. So that leaves the ST with it's great tipover protection which is what keeps it in the front of the line for me.

i research the crap out of everything and nuke it down into the weeds.

That is my normal mode of operation. It makes my wife crazy... . That's why I said it was sort of uncharacteristic of me. Must be because I've been mostly unable to ride for the last three years and now that I see the possiblity of my life returning to normal sometime within the next 6 or 8 months, I'm going loco. :

When I get ready to spend a bunch of money on something, I ask questions and lay out my concerns and observations and deal with them. Polyana I'm not, nor am I negative. Like Joe Friday says, "Just the facts mam", and then I make a decision. This one will be made quickly.

 

[Mick]

If it is helpful, my March 2012 ST1300 just turned 5ooo, all good so far. Keep in mind there are tens of thousands of ST1300's on the road, so measure the number of complaints in perspective.

This is one of the reasons I started this thread; to get a judge of how pervasive the problem is. Still don't have a good feel but at least I'm starting to get feed back indicating it's not everyone that has the problem.

This is important to me not only because I'm fixing to let go of hard earned money, but because I usually keep my bikes well over the 50k mile mark so long term reliability is way high on my list of important traits.