Odd Knob?-ST1300

[ST Gui]

I find it terribly distressing that it wasn't until just a few years ago that I learned that the screws on my various Japanese products over the years where indeed something other than a Philips screw, best attacked with a Philips screwdriver.

I feel your pain! I didn't learn this until getting my ST and coming here.

My first bike was a used '65 Honda 305 Scrambler/CL77 (with the seamless gas tank). It used JIS screws that I assumed were Phillips. The red two-piece screwdriver worked perfectly on screws that weren't too tight but some were - especially the side cases.

No worries just get a bigger Phillips. The damage I wrought. Everybody at the shop and in the bike mags talked about the 'cheese-head screws' and said I needed a Vessel impact driver. Today I'd big money that nobody outside of Honda knew these were JIS screws and that the Vessel came with JIS bits. I still have that driver.

It's identical to this.​

So a few of the 305's screws might have needed the Vessel but a bigger JIS driver would not have chewed up the screws and probably would have worked a treat. I replace the screws and continued to use the toolkit JIS and the Vessel but also Phillips drivers still not fully learning a lesson. But when a screw was stuck on later bikes (all has factory took kits up until my ST) the first time a Phillips slipped I went for the Vessel and the recalcitrant screws were easily persuaded to exit. I soon skipped Phillips drivers altogether on my Hondas.

Now I have several JIS drivers including the one shown by @GitSum. I also got a set of bits recommended by @MaxPete. I have found in my experience Phillips drivers don't work well in stuck JIS screws but JIS drivers seem to do well in stuck Phillips screws.

So that's how I roll.

 

[MaxPete]

I feel your pain! I didn't learn this until getting my ST and coming here.

My first bike was a used '65 Honda 305 Scrambler/CL77 (with the seamless gas tank). It used JIS screws that I assumed were Phillips. The red two-piece screwdriver worked perfectly on screws that weren't too tight but some were - especially the side cases.

No worries just get a bigger Phillips. The damage I wrought. Everybody at the shop and in the bike mags talked about the 'cheese-head screws' and said I needed a Vessel impact driver. Today I'd big money that nobody outside of Honda knew these were JIS screws and that the Vessel came with JIS bits. I still have that driver.

It's identical to this.​

So a few of the 305's screws might have needed the Vessel but a bigger JIS driver would not have chewed up the screws and probably would have worked a treat. I replace the screws and continued to use the toolkit JIS and the Vessel but also Phillips drivers still not fully learning a lesson. But when a screw was stuck on later bikes (all has factory took kits up until my ST) the first time a Phillips slipped I went for the Vessel and the recalcitrant screws were easily persuaded to exit. I soon skipped Phillips drivers altogether on my Hondas.

Now I have several JIS drivers including the one shown by @GitSum. I also got a set of bits recommended by @MaxPete. I have found in my experience Phillips drivers don't work well in stuck JIS screws but JIS drivers seem to do well in stuck Phillips screws.

So that's how I roll.

ABSOTIVELY - JIS is the way to go for all "cross-head" type screws. I have "retired" most of my Philipps drivers as they simply do not work as well and often damage the screws. I have actually used my lathe to remove the driver end of several of them and now use them as punches.

....and an impact driver is hard to beat for working on a motorcycle. If you work on your bike and do not have one - get one and the best brand is Vessel. I have a set of these - and the silver coloured ones are the IMPACTA variant which function as impact drivers. They are excellent tools - certainly equivalent to Snap-On in quality plus they don't require a 2nd mortgage on your house.

Here are some tips on using an impact driver:

1. make sure the driver is lubricated (there are internal "ramps" inside the driver body which cause the bit to rotate about 5-10 degrees CCW when you compress the body of the driver by striking it with a hammer - and those ramps need to slip easily for the tool to function correctly)
2. be sure to "pre-load" the driver by pushing it firmly into the head of the screw and rotating it CCW slightly so that the edges of the driver bit are held hard against the edges of the cavity in the head of the screw
3. holding the driver dead-nuts square on the screw, give the head of the driver one smart whack with a hammer.

.....and WAH-LA - the screw should be loose.

Step 2 above is often missed by newbies and as a result, a good deal of the energy of the hammer blow is dissipated in pushing the driver bit into the screw head - but not actually rotating the screw.

 

[ST Gui]

Step 2 above is often missed by newbies and as a result, a good deal of the energy of the hammer blow is dissipated in pushing the driver bit into the screw head - but not actually rotating the screw.

Guilty your Honor but with an explanation – I didn't know any better. I realized a bigger hammer wasn't the answer. A few jolts seemed to made it easier to muscle the screws out. I stumbled on the pre-load aspect be accident and was more than a little surprised when one smart whack was all that was needed.

 

[Larry Fine]

Step 2 above is often missed by newbies and as a result, a good deal of the energy of the hammer blow is dissipated in pushing the driver bit into the screw head - but not actually rotating the screw.

Twisting the impact driver rolls pegs up internal ramps that apply rotational force when you hit it.