OEM Head Bearings V's Taper Bearings

panman40

panman40

Joined
Aug 16, 2006
Messages
89
Location
UK
Hi,
I have a little job to do this coming winter on the ST13 and thats change the steering head bearings.
I wondered whats the best to fit:confused:, OE type bearings or Taper Type?,
If somebody has previous experience on which last the longest I would be grateful:bow1:,
Cheers,
Martin.
 
Tapered adds so much more bearing area that it's the obvious choice. Never understood how Honda chooses to do balls in the steering stem.

I'll do tapered every time. Never seen a damaged set, compared to the the galled and dimpled races in a worn ball bearing set.
 
George said:
Tapered adds so much more bearing area that it's the obvious choice. Never understood how Honda chooses to do balls in the steering stem.

I'll do tapered every time. Never seen a damaged set, compared to the the galled and dimpled races in a worn ball bearing set.
Click to expand...

+1 there! It's not a very difficult mod to do. Honda uses balls because they are cheaper.
 
Ball bearings are used in steering applications because of the little movement involved. Ball bearings are in constant movement within the cage and are in contact with the grease over a much greater area. Ball bearings hold much more grease and move much more grease than roller bearings. Ball bearings give much greater feedback in steering applications. Ball bearings are a better choice for steering applications than roller bearings.

Rich
 
2faraway said:
Ball bearings are used in steering applications because of the little movement involved. Ball bearings are in constant movement within the cage and are in contact with the grease over a much greater area. Ball bearings hold much more grease and move much more grease than roller bearings. Ball bearings give much greater feedback in steering applications. Ball bearings are a better choice for steering applications than roller bearings.

Rich
Click to expand...

Have to disagree with this. The larger area of the rollers provides much more contact between the forks (thru the triple tree and stem) than do balls. Balls require much higher torque than do rollers. Very slightly tight rollers provide some "drag" which lowers the "wobble" factor, but at a lot less pressure than the balls.

I think price is the only reason, and the aftermarket rollers are prolly cheaper than an OEM set of balls.

My opinion, YMMV, ride yur own ride, etc.
 
In addition, ball bearings aren't as sensitive to tightening torque as tapered ones are. If you get a set of tapered bearings just a wee bit too tight the bike will handle poorly at low speeds, like an older bike that you forgot to loosen up the friction steering damper on after getting off the freeway.

Outside of lubrication, or lack there of, the main reason ball and even tapered bearings go bad is excess looseness. If they are allowed to become even a little loose in an application like a steering head, road bumps will hammer flat spots and dimples into them and the races.

Since ball bearings are less sensitive to tightening torque one can put something like 20 ft. lb. on them and not affect steering feel. Tapered ones have a much narrower tolerance to tightening torque, much more than 3-4 ft. lb. and you'll feel it. Back it off too much and you'll dented and dimpled rollers and races to match. BTDT. I think the wider range of assembly tolerance for ball bearings makes them preferable to the manufacturing process.

After "upgrading" my ST1100 from the ball bearings to the rollers and then fiddling with them repeatedly until I found the tightening torque sweet spot, I'd be tempted to replace my ST1300's ball bearings with balls again should they ever need it. I seem to be very sensitive to these steering effects. Maybe I'd use higher quality ball bearings like ceramic or something. Less hassle in my opinion.
 
I can't believe anyone has had a bad experience with tapered.:confused:

On the XX tapered was the thing to do, I did it and it was like night and day from u-turns to stability, to cornering, no more hands off decell wobble, perfect.

I'll be doing the ST, maybe this winter.

I'm convinced that slightly dented races cause the wobbles and wallows.

Put your bike on the centerstand, jack up the front under the oil pan, and s-l-o-w-l-y turn your bars lock to lock paying special attention to straight ahead.

I bet most of you have a mild to severe notch straight ahead.

I've already got a small notch in mine at 2500 miles and no I don't wheelie her.
 
On my 96 P model I replaced the steering head bearings last year with tapers. The bearings in there had a notch. I found that there were taper bearing in there already - I don't know if the police models come standard with them. I adjust the bearings by feel (which is close to the Suzuki procedure), after 28 years of taper bearings in my Suzuki GS1000 which were standard and still in there.
 
saaz said:
On my 96 P model I replaced the steering head bearings last year with tapers. The bearings in there had a notch. I found that there were taper bearing in there already - I don't know if the police models come standard with them. I adjust the bearings by feel (which is close to the Suzuki procedure), after 28 years of taper bearings in my Suzuki GS1000 which were standard and still in there.
Click to expand...

It's not "impossible" to dent tapered bearings but I'd say they are stronger by a factor of 10.

My 94 KLX650C has tapered from the factory, imagine that.

In my 1300 Honda SM they don't list tapered in the police section.

IRL torque specs ARE irrelevant for the steering head, feel is best.
 
Rollers are less than $6 more expensive than balls, if these OEM part numbers and prices (from Ron Ayers) are any guide:

Upper ball bearing & race: 91015-KT8-005 $23.53
Upper tapered roller bearing & race: 91015-425-832 $23.18

Lower ball bearing & race: 91016-KT8-005 $23.53
Lower tapered roller bearing & race: 91016-371-000 $29.59

Accordingly, I don't think cost is a reason why Honda specs ball bearings for the vast majority of its motorcycles. (Tapered rollers were fitted to GL1500 Goldwings and some other bikes.)

(Note: I cannot verify that the roller bearing part numbers shown above definitely fit the ST1300--sorry.)

Ciao,
 
JZH said:
Rollers are less than $6 more expensive than balls, if these OEM part numbers and prices (from Ron Ayers) are any guide:

Upper ball bearing & race: 91015-KT8-005 $23.53
Upper tapered roller bearing & race: 91015-425-832 $23.18

Lower ball bearing & race: 91016-KT8-005 $23.53
Lower tapered roller bearing & race: 91016-371-000 $29.59

Accordingly, I don't think cost is a reason why Honda specs ball bearings for the vast majority of its motorcycles. Ciao,
Click to expand...

Agreed, it's not the cost of the parts but rather the time spent on the line getting the tapered ones just right. The balls, being less sensitive, probably save assembly time on the line. In end it probably is a cost decision but labor rather than parts.
 
JZH said:
Rollers are less than $6 more expensive than balls, if these OEM part numbers and prices (from Ron Ayers) are any guide:

Upper ball bearing & race: 91015-KT8-005 $23.53
Upper tapered roller bearing & race: 91015-425-832 $23.18

Lower ball bearing & race: 91016-KT8-005 $23.53
Lower tapered roller bearing & race: 91016-371-000 $29.59

Accordingly, I don't think cost is a reason why Honda specs ball bearings for the vast majority of its motorcycles. (Tapered rollers were fitted to GL1500 Goldwings and some other bikes.)

(Note: I cannot verify that the roller bearing part numbers shown above definitely fit the ST1300--sorry.)

Ciao,
Click to expand...

Has anyone replaced their steering head bearings using the tapered bearings in a 1300 yet? Are the part numbers correct? I figure I have a bit to go before changing but wanted to have the research done.
 
Rob__ said:
Has anyone replaced their steering head bearings using the tapered bearings in a 1300 yet? Are the part numbers correct? I figure I have a bit to go before changing but wanted to have the research done.
Click to expand...

+1 on the part numbers (1300)
 
Just did a set Friday on Petar's Flying Pig. We used John Oo's tool kit and passed it to the next user. Relatively easy job as he already had the front end removed to do the timing belt, etc.

I originally put tapered bearings into STick back in 93 or so, just replaced them in January after 150,000 miles.

+1 on price and labor being the difference for Honda. Balls do the job for many milels if properly maintained (repack and retorque every several thousand miles.) Takes almost as much work as replacing with tapered, which require virtually no maintenance.
 
Hey, Just returned from the Chevy Stealer and the Customer Theft Department..

I was having an ABS light and Traction control lights... They quoted me to replace the two front wheel bearing/ABS hubs. 2ea hubs at $375 ea plus $250 labor = $1000! Stopped by Advance Auto and got hubs for $131 ea and will replace tonight after work. There's a special place for folks like that.


That motivated me to get off my duff and research. So to answer "Do the bearing work on an ST1300?" I'd say Yes since a 1998 - 2001 ST1100A ABS uses the same bearings P/Ns as a 2006 ST1300A ABS.

1998 ST1100A ABS http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorcycles/1998-honda-motorcycle-st1100a-abs/o/m2523
10:
BEARING, HEAD PIPE
(UPPER),AC 2AC
242021-001 Enter 0-99 $30.15
11:
BEARING, HEAD PIPE
(LOWER),AC 2AC
242034-001 Enter 0-99 $30.15



2001 ST1100A ABS http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorcycles/2001-honda-motorcycle-st1100a-abs/o/m2526
BEARING, HEAD PIPE
8 (UPPER),AC 2AC
242021-001 Enter 0-99 $30.15
9:
BEARING, HEAD PIPE
(LOWER),AC 2AC
242034-001 Enter 0-99 $30.15


2006 ST1300A ABS http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorcycles/2006-honda-motorcycle-st1300a-abs/o/m2533
7:
BEARING, HEAD PIPE
(UPPER),AC 2AC
242021-001 Enter 0-99 $30.15
8:
BEARING, HEAD PIPE
(LOWER),AC 2AC
242034-001 Enter 0-99 $30.15
 
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