If they all were to go the Robertson way of life 
Old Honda Question
- Thread starter SMSW
- Start date
as far as I know, JIS...
Back in the early '70s my first bike was a Honda 305 Scrambler (CL77). For some wrenching I was able to use the factory red-handled screw driver or the bit with the T-handle. When finding a stubborn screw a big Phillips made short work of it promoting the myth of the "cheap Japanese cheese-head screws".
So I went to the local dealer and they said "Son you need an impact driver" and sold me a Vessel with four bits. Had to learn the basics but once done the screws came right out no fuss and more importantly no muss.
What I didn't know was the factory driver and Vessel impact driver use JIS bits for the factory JIS screws. It was years later before I bought dedicated JIS screw drivers and have converted my Honda buddies.
A lot of YT videos still say "Phillips" and not JIS but I see more and more commenters correcting that.
So I went to the local dealer and they said "Son you need an impact driver" and sold me a Vessel with four bits. Had to learn the basics but once done the screws came right out no fuss and more importantly no muss.
What I didn't know was the factory driver and Vessel impact driver use JIS bits for the factory JIS screws. It was years later before I bought dedicated JIS screw drivers and have converted my Honda buddies.
A lot of YT videos still say "Phillips" and not JIS but I see more and more commenters correcting that.
- Joined
- May 27, 2021
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- Age
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- Coquitlam British Columbia Canada
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I started out as a tin basher, the only decent screw and screw driver is a robertson, a Canadian invention, you can pierce two sheets of 30g venting with a self tapper at 15 degrees, so no chance that will catch on, as far as the JIS I keep meaning to buy one and know I really should but it's never been a problem, I don't even understand the difference between that and a regular torx bit. 
sirbike
Site Supporter
I hired a Japanese bicycle mechanic. My tool benches were were fully equipped so I thought.
This guy comes walking in with a screwdriver. 2019 is the year that I learned about JIS. After 40 years in the business. It amazes me that with the internet going strong for 15 years or so that this had not become more well known.
Suddenly derailleur and linear pull brake adjustment screws got easier.
I wonder who here knew about this the earliest.
This guy comes walking in with a screwdriver. 2019 is the year that I learned about JIS. After 40 years in the business. It amazes me that with the internet going strong for 15 years or so that this had not become more well known.
Suddenly derailleur and linear pull brake adjustment screws got easier.
I wonder who here knew about this the earliest.
James Irving Smith.
To the best of my knowledge I have never owned a JIS set of drivers. I have always used a #2 Philips along with a hand impact driver. Starting way back in the mid 60's.
Ok guys, I've read enough of the book to really get angry at the author - he has a lot of good arguments but uses puffery and quotations to try to bolster his premise. I also see him as a dilettante, though I might be wrong based on the limited info I have about him. The book is Shop Class as Soulcraft by Matthew B Crawford. Btw, he dumped his motorcycle repair shop and went into sheet metal work.... His mc shop was Shockoe Moto, in Richmond, VA named for a section of that town.
@mello dude and @Jim C-G , it was not Pirsig's book. Pirsig, while probably a genius, studied biochemistry and got a masters in journalism. He studied Philosophy but never pursued any more advanced degrees. While I don't consider this source to be the final word on any subject (Wikipedia), it is my go to destination for general information:
@mello dude and @Jim C-G , it was not Pirsig's book. Pirsig, while probably a genius, studied biochemistry and got a masters in journalism. He studied Philosophy but never pursued any more advanced degrees. While I don't consider this source to be the final word on any subject (Wikipedia), it is my go to destination for general information:
I've known about JIS screws since the late 80's, but finding them was difficult before the interweb. We usually did as Ray advised; grind a bit of the #2 Phillips tip off. I've got several Craftsman screwdrivers that I've done this to. Oh, and using a hand impact was SOP for getting the case screws out of Japanese bikes (and replacing with hex heads) back in the 70s.
bdalameda
PaleoCyclist
Most of the Hand-Impact drivers from the 70's and 80's were equipped with JIS bits. Most people did not know this. I learned about JIS fasteners back in the 1970's as I worked as a motorcycle mechanic back then. I remember getting my first set of JIS T-handle screwdrivers. What a wonderful experience being able to remove JIS side case screws without damaging them and not needing a hand impact. I still have them in my toolbox.
Especially if your impact driver looked like
Two of those were JIS bits in the box not Phillips. (My kit didn't have the red plastic holders.)Even the Honda dealers in my area didn't know this. They're SOP response to me (and others complaining about Japanese cheese-head screws) was "you need an impact driver" and not "you just need a couple JIS screwdrivers and bits". Sure they didn't mind selling what they had. They just didn't know what they had.
Partly because of the larger barrel of the impact driver body increasing leverage and gripping surface – oh yeah and the JIS bits — I didn't need to use the impact function of the Vessel to get a lot of the screws out. This even though all had factory thread locker added.
bdalameda
PaleoCyclist
I still have my Vessel impact driver that I purchased in 1969. It still works perfectly after 53 years! I believe these are still available from Vessel.Especially if your impact driver looked like
Two of those were JIS bits in the box not Phillips. (My kit didn't have the red plastic holders.)Even the Honda dealers in my area didn't know this. They're SOP response to me (and others complaining about Japanese cheese-head screws) was "you need an impact driver" and not "you just need a couple JIS screwdrivers and bits". Sure they didn't mind selling what they had. They just didn't know what they had.
Partly because of the larger barrel of the impact driver body increasing leverage and gripping surface – oh yeah and the JIS bits — I didn't need to use the impact function of the Vessel to get a lot of the screws out. This even though all had factory thread locker added.
