I would still flush clutch & brake fluids, who knows if or when it's been done. As far as the squeak noise, make sure the rear brake is releasing and not over-heating plus check the drive shaft u joints. It's been an issue on sum 1300's
Problems going from Neutral to 1st or 2nd gear
- Thread starter Juanda
- Start date
I’m not going to tell anyone what to do with their bike, however, I will throw a couple things out there to consider…
1. Remove the clutch lever and inspect the pivot bushing.
If it is worn, loose, scored, or the hole has worn deeper, it will not engage the clutch correctly.
Also check to see if the rubber boot is torn, or jammed up inside the housing.
These alone can cause shifting issues.
2. Clutch fluid leaking out will never be seen on the floor, it will stick to the rear of the crankcase cover, IF the weep hole is clear and not clogged up (common)
3. Did you, or anyone else. Over fill the clutch master cylinder housing?
You don’t use the idiot lines outside by the window, you use the casting line inside the housing on the front wall.
Over filling can cause issues.
4. I would stop riding the bike you are unfamiliar with if you are hearing scraping, squeaking, or dragging noises from either wheel until it can be inspected by someone familiar with this model.
Everything you are describing sounds like a bike that has had the fluids neglected, and may have damaged the Clutch slave cylinder, and/or the left front brake caliper Secondary master cylinder assembly.
Put the bike on the centerstand and place your foot on the rear wheel and push down briskly one time and tell us how many rotations the wheel turns.
My guess will be one or less from your description of things.
If it does not spin freely at least two full rotations, I would suggest not riding the bike before you correct things, or risk damaging some very expensive parts, or getting tossed off the bike when the SMC locks up the rear wheel without warning.
You pay your dollar, you take your chances.
Good luck
Let us know what you find.
1. Remove the clutch lever and inspect the pivot bushing.
If it is worn, loose, scored, or the hole has worn deeper, it will not engage the clutch correctly.
Also check to see if the rubber boot is torn, or jammed up inside the housing.
These alone can cause shifting issues.
2. Clutch fluid leaking out will never be seen on the floor, it will stick to the rear of the crankcase cover, IF the weep hole is clear and not clogged up (common)
3. Did you, or anyone else. Over fill the clutch master cylinder housing?
You don’t use the idiot lines outside by the window, you use the casting line inside the housing on the front wall.
Over filling can cause issues.
4. I would stop riding the bike you are unfamiliar with if you are hearing scraping, squeaking, or dragging noises from either wheel until it can be inspected by someone familiar with this model.
Everything you are describing sounds like a bike that has had the fluids neglected, and may have damaged the Clutch slave cylinder, and/or the left front brake caliper Secondary master cylinder assembly.
Put the bike on the centerstand and place your foot on the rear wheel and push down briskly one time and tell us how many rotations the wheel turns.
My guess will be one or less from your description of things.
If it does not spin freely at least two full rotations, I would suggest not riding the bike before you correct things, or risk damaging some very expensive parts, or getting tossed off the bike when the SMC locks up the rear wheel without warning.
You pay your dollar, you take your chances.
Good luck
Let us know what you find.
OP
OP
But I did all that already.
It's on post #11:
Problems going from Neutral to 1st or 2nd gear | ST1300 Related
Hello I'm Juanda. First post around here. I recently bought a Honda ST1300 (2005). It's a pleasure to ride on the highway. I don't get to ride it often but the few times I do have been nice. Especially on the highway (except for the freaking tolls). As I drive it more often, I find more things...
Do you mean doing it again?
OP
OP
I changed the fluids already. Everything is up to spec or as close as I could following the manual and instructions from the internet.
If something got damaged before that, I couldn't tell while doing the maintenance.
Regarding the clutch, after the change of fluids, it got better.
I was hoping it's not something to be worried about, as shared by @Al st1100 in post #15. It might be simply a matter of the gears sometimes not finding the right spot when coming out of neutral due to the lack of a synchro.
Problems going from Neutral to 1st or 2nd gear | ST1300 Related
Hello I'm Juanda. First post around here. I recently bought a Honda ST1300 (2005). It's a pleasure to ride on the highway. I don't get to ride it often but the few times I do have been nice. Especially on the highway (except for the freaking tolls). As I drive it more often, I find more things...
I'll try to record a video so you can judge if I pushed the wheel hard enough. I'll try posting it tonight or tomorrow.
Thanks for the feedback.
Last edited:
noBut I did all that already.
It's on post #11:
Problems going from Neutral to 1st or 2nd gear | ST1300 Related
Hello I'm Juanda. First post around here. I recently bought a Honda ST1300 (2005). It's a pleasure to ride on the highway. I don't get to ride it often but the few times I do have been nice. Especially on the highway (except for the freaking tolls). As I drive it more often, I find more things...www.st-owners.com
Do you mean doing it again?
Andrew Shadow
Site Supporter
See the below for an idea of how much free-play there is in a clutch lever that has no wear so you can compare.
Clutch Lever Bushing
Below are some photos from IGOFAR to give you an idea what a damaged clutch lever and clutch lever bushing looks like.
Clutch Lever
As I suggested earlier, if it varies with temperature, it must be fluid. not mechanical.
One fluid change at best only dilutes the old fluid. So, yes, after riding it some, you should replace the clutch fluid again.
When my '01 got real hot, the lever travel was all free-play, and I couldn't stop without stalling the engine. It took two fluid changes for the free-play to stop changing.
Squeeze the lever all the way and hold it, open and close the bleeder, using the clutch springs to push out the old fluid.
Check reservoir level, pump up the pressure, and repeat the above procedure until the exiting fluid looks like new.
Two pulls to get enough clutch movement to allow a gear change means the clutch slave is not moving far enough.
Could be the master piston leaking or the bushing being worn and not allowing full stroke of the master, or it could be air still in the slave cylinder. I doubt this has anything to do with the gearbox as at a standstill in neutral the input shaft is madly whirling and the geardogs have plenty of chances to find a slot to enter when you move the lever. Hence the clonk that usually happens as the driving and driven clutch plates suddenly have to start moving at different speeds to each other.
The ST clutch slave bleeder must have upset some Honda engineers; bleeds usually come off the top of a cylinder and fluid delivery lower down so there is a nice path for rising air to take, but in the case of the ST they share a common banjo bolt. If you have the bleed screw open and just pump the master, you'll be pushing nice clean fluid out of the bleeder but not necessarily displacing an air bubble in the slave cylinder.
You have to close the bleeder, pump the master repeatedly to generate some pressure and hold it, then crack the bleed and allow the clutch springs to push the fluid out of the bleeder, then close the bleeder, then release the lever. And repeat.
Could be the master piston leaking or the bushing being worn and not allowing full stroke of the master, or it could be air still in the slave cylinder. I doubt this has anything to do with the gearbox as at a standstill in neutral the input shaft is madly whirling and the geardogs have plenty of chances to find a slot to enter when you move the lever. Hence the clonk that usually happens as the driving and driven clutch plates suddenly have to start moving at different speeds to each other.
The ST clutch slave bleeder must have upset some Honda engineers; bleeds usually come off the top of a cylinder and fluid delivery lower down so there is a nice path for rising air to take, but in the case of the ST they share a common banjo bolt. If you have the bleed screw open and just pump the master, you'll be pushing nice clean fluid out of the bleeder but not necessarily displacing an air bubble in the slave cylinder.
You have to close the bleeder, pump the master repeatedly to generate some pressure and hold it, then crack the bleed and allow the clutch springs to push the fluid out of the bleeder, then close the bleeder, then release the lever. And repeat.
OP
OP
Thank you all for your comments. I'll try comparing my clutch lever vertical displacement with the provided links to check if it's nominal. I'll get back to you with the results.
@Igofar asked about how freely the wheels spin. I made a video last night. I can't get them to spin for 2 full turns as he mentioned. I'd say the rear wheel spins for about a full turn and the front wheel spins about 1/2 or maybe a 3/4 although the difference might be caused by the fact that the front wheel is a little more difficult to push because I have to raise the front end and the handlebar turns away from the push. You can judge for yourselves from the following video. I stuck a piece of paper on the rims so they're easier to track.
Seems all of my Honda’s did this at some point, whether they had hydraulic or cable clutches (Magna, Goldwing, the ST). This is exactly what I’ve always done too, I’d push down on the shift lever and slowly let out the clutch until it engaged. It would always engage before ever trying to stall.
OP
OP
From the first link
As an indication of how little vertical movement of the clutch lever there is when everything is new and has no wear, a new clutch lever installed with a pivot bolt that has no wear has only about 1/16" of total vertical movement at the very end of the clutch lever where the knob is. Excessive play indicates increased wear. If excessive play is present for a long time, the clutch lever will eventually come in to contact with and wear the master cylinder at the pivot attachment point. It is a good idea to push the end of the clutch lever up and down every once in a while to get a feel for how much movement there is. This will give you an indication of when it is time to look at the condition of these parts to see if they need replacement before they reach the point of damaging the clutch master cylinder. Of course, if you remove, clean and re-lube this area every once in a while as part of preventative maintenance, you will be aware of when it is time to replace the these parts.
I checked the clutch lever. It seems I have more vertical movement than that. You mentioned 1/16 inches. That's approximately 0.16 cm.
(For an approximate result, multiply the length in inches by 2.54)
I took some measurements, and I think my play is more like 0.5 cm. That's around 0.2 inches or 1/5 in. It's hard to measure accurately, and my eyesight is not the best, so I took a video as well.
Do you think the bushing is busted?
By the way, I insist, the clutch action is not too bad. I'm mostly concerned by the noise I can hear when the wheels rotate. I have tried multiple times to locate the source without luck so far. Let me know if the videos of the wheel rotation reveal anything to you.
Problems going from Neutral to 1st or 2nd gear | ST1300 Related
Yep. Although I don't know how bad is too bad. For now, I'm just hoping it's as Al st1100 was describing so I can forget about the clutch. Regarding the "squeaky" noise, I'll try to take a closer look over the weekend. Maybe I'll finally find out what's causing it. I would still flush clutch...
If the brakes are not the issue, I'm afraid it'll be some bearings. This could make sense because I can only feel it when I'm on the bike. The bike itself is heavy, which could trigger it, but I guess it must be on the limit. It's only when I'm on top (115 kg load added to the bike) that I can hear it.
That video looks ok to me.
Andrew Shadow
Site Supporter
With the amount that the end of your lever is moving I can assure you that the bushing is worn as a minimum. With that much movement there is a fair chance that the lever is also worn. From what is visible in the video I doubt that it is worn enough to cause any trouble shifting, but it is worn and should be checked.
Both your front and rear wheel do not turn very freely in my view. You should get more rotation than you have. It is hard to tell from the video but when you rotate the front wheel it sounds like there is a lot of brake drag. You are barely getting one rotation of the rear wheel.
Both your front and rear wheel do not turn very freely in my view. You should get more rotation than you have. It is hard to tell from the video but when you rotate the front wheel it sounds like there is a lot of brake drag. You are barely getting one rotation of the rear wheel.
OP
OP
I'll have to address the clutch lever at a later time if it's not urgent.
Is there an easy fix for the brake drag? The brake pads are not worn, and I just flushed the brake fluid of the whole system. Do you think that's the source of the noise I described rather than the bearings or something else?
In a few months, I'll be riding from Northern Italy to Southern Spain, and I'd like to have the motorcycle in as decent and reasonable condition as possible for the trip.
ST-Traveler
Site Supporter
Vertical clutch lever free play or movement as shown in your video.
If you look at the beside your clutch reservoir on the clutch lever itself, there is a pivot bolt ( flat head screw driver type) if you remove this bolt there is a brass bushing that the bolt is pivoting in. Most likely there is wear in this bushing and can easily be replaced. Some of us will take this bolt out from time to time and add a little light grease lubricant to keep the wear down to a minimum.
As far as you brake drag - are you talking rear brake?
If so I would check the SMC function and make sure the piston hasn't corroded and sized up.
If you look at the beside your clutch reservoir on the clutch lever itself, there is a pivot bolt ( flat head screw driver type) if you remove this bolt there is a brass bushing that the bolt is pivoting in. Most likely there is wear in this bushing and can easily be replaced. Some of us will take this bolt out from time to time and add a little light grease lubricant to keep the wear down to a minimum.
As far as you brake drag - are you talking rear brake?
If so I would check the SMC function and make sure the piston hasn't corroded and sized up.