R1200RT

Vern

Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
80
Location
Bryceville, Fl
Hey Everyone,,

A few years back I owned an 05 St 1300 which I really liked in most ways, Some things not so much.
I am currently on a 09 Venture which I like, it's very comfy & very good 2up, I love the V-4, wishing it was fuel injected. I don't get to ride the miles I have in the past so about 10-12K a year is all get to do.
I plan on keeping the Venture, however I want another Sport touring ride, Something much less bulk under 600 lbs., Easy to get on /off the trailer along side the Kayaks. I do want the pwr windscreen, Cruise, Shaft drive, Luggage Cap. I have always had an interest in the R1200RT. I have some questions. I hear several different opinions regarding reliability, cost of ownership, parts etc... I work for a German Company and our parts are very Pricey, so I understand that part. I am a Mechanic, most of the wrenching I will be doing myself, with 2 bike it'll be ok if it down for a little while during repairs/maint.
I am interested in a 2009 model or newer.
Main Question is,, Any big reason to just walk away from that bike?
I usually ride the Japanese stuff, cause ,,it works without alot of drama,,, But I want something more civilized than the FJR or the Connie 14. Damn I must be gettin old.
I like the new Trophy, as well, I'm looking at that one too.
Let me know what everyone thinks,, don't hold back,, Brutal is ok too.

LAter Vern.
 
Granted, the ST13 is heavy and requires ones total attention with any slow or no speed maneuvering. But the ST handles the heft remarkably well once underway; at that point it is an advantage.
I too, do my own wrenching and for that reason will never own another BMW, with all due respect. They are good bikes, but expensive to own (must be dealer maintained) and I personally want to know the details to the mechanics of my equipment.
I would own an R12RT, hands down, if they produced service manuals comparable to Honda. But they don't, so I don't. I owned an ST13 and loved that bike, with the one above exception.

None of the other bikes, except the RT (with it's (less) weight advantage), are as well rounded as the ST13. You are going to be hard pressed finding a sport touring ride better than the ST13. All it really needs now is a 3rd gen update, which is what I'm waiting for, if this blasted, dare I say, govt (easy Mellow) hindered economy ever turns around.
I do not want to belabor the subject, but good service manuals makes owning equipment so much more enjoyable. Every time I ride my F800 I know that if it stops running, I'm dead in the water because I know so little about it. I know my Honda vehicles and enjoy owning them more for that reason. Good luck, Vern, in your search.
 
ST13Fred said:
Granted, the ST13 is heavy and requires ones total attention with any slow or no speed maneuvering. But the ST handles the heft remarkably well once underway; at that point it is an advantage.
I too, do my own wrenching and for that reason will never own another BMW, with all due respect. They are good bikes, but expensive to own (must be dealer maintained) and I personally want to know the details to the mechanics of my equipment.
I would own an R12RT, hands down, if they produced service manuals comparable to Honda. But they don't, so I don't. I owned an ST13 and loved that bike, with the one above exception.

None of the other bikes, except the RT (with it's (less) weight advantage), are as well rounded as the ST13. You are going to be hard pressed finding a sport touring ride better than the ST13. All it really needs now is a 3rd gen update, which is what I'm waiting for, if this blasted, dare I say, govt (easy Mellow) hindered economy ever turns around.
I do not want to belabor the subject, but good service manuals makes owning equipment so much more enjoyable. Every time I ride my F800 I know that if it stops running, I'm dead in the water because I know so little about it. I know my Honda vehicles and enjoy owning them more for that reason. Good luck, Vern, in your search.
Click to expand...
I'll let that one squeeze by Fred.. but just barely :rofl1:

I should have my vSTrom 650 manual today.. I'm in 100% agreement with being able to work on bikes yourself but not everyone does that so for those, it may not be an issue and so the RT wins.. I like them, but it's mainly pricing which has kept me from one... and that might be what keeps me from a new ST when it comes out as well... the 2013 FJR is the current leading contender in my mind with regards to a good value...

That being said.. My ST is paid for so even the FJR as good of a value as it is, isn't worth a trade-in and new loan to get basically the same bike with just a couple additional features.. That's another reason I wanted to try the dual-sport styled bikes and the vSTrom 650 was a good choice IMO.. light, relatively cheap (even new) and abs.

Bottom line, if you like something and you feel like it's a good choice for YOU, then do it... what's the worst that can happen? You end up hating the bike and get something else. I wish I could give you more specifics on the RT but I've never owned one so my comments are pretty much useless per the original intent of the post.. sorry about that... happens a lot with me.. :D
 
I ride a lot with a friend who was a multi line dealer (recently sold the dealership). He has a choice of a lot of different bikes but is virtually always on a RT. I have ridden one quite a bit and have to say that it is a great bike with one exception.......I just don't like the way the motor feels but I suppose it is something that you could grow to love. He says that the cost of dealer supplied, routine maintenance, of the BMW is comparable to other brands. This statement comes from knowing what is spent, in his shop, on maintenance. Parts are expensive for sure but ever price out the cost of tupperware for a Honda or Suzuki? eg. lower fairing for my daughter's SV is $900 and it still has to be painted:eek:
The lighter weight of the RT is certainly noticeable at a stop or low speed. When I get on it, I just about throw it over on the right side getting it off the side stand.
You might consider a Suzuki Bandit set up for touring.
http://moto.suzuki.ca/Product Lines/Cycles/Products/GSX1250FA/2013/GSX1250FA.aspx#Specs

Rod

Rod
 
Hey Tom,

Of all the modern BMWs the boxers are most likely to be owner maintained if so inclined. The local chapter of BMWMOA here has lots of resources with a tech day or two a year to help with more complicated maintenance items. I know and ride with guys around here with RTs and even those that have had mechanical problems still love the bike. The RT will handle the unpaved road out to 301 better than the ST or the Venture. A good thing is the dealer in Orange Park will be glad to let you demo an RT which you should in order to experience that motor. Some like it and some don't - it's real different from the last two road bikes you have had.
 
Vern,
I put 50,000 miles on a 2007 ST 1300 before switching to a 2012 R1200RT and I can say there are very few things I liked better on the ST. The motor of the ST is smooth and full of torque (ok, that's only one thing I like better on the ST). The boxer motor does take some getting used to coming off of a V-4. It does vibrate more at low RPM but smooths out around 4K RPM and isn't noticeable during freeway riding. I've done 800 mile days on both bikes and I can say that at the end of the day I was much more comfortable on the RT than on the ST.

The things I love about the RT are:
Better wind management - calmer cockpit
Amenities - ESA II, heated grips, heated seat, ABS, Powerlet outlets (2) and cruise control
150 lbs lighter than the ST
Better fuel economy - I'm averaging around 50 MPG
Better dealer/mechanic - I have waaaaaaay more trust in my BMW dealership and their mechanic than I do my local Honda Powerhouse dealership that mounted three tires backwards on my ST!
Updated styling - I still think the RT is one of the prettiest bikes on the road
Handling - The RT handles better than the ST.....period.
Brakes - The ST has very good brakes, the RT has frickin' awesome breaks!

Dealer experience:
When I've gone to any BMW dealership the people working there have taken a genuine interest in details about my trip, what I ride, etc.... because they are riders. Most of the employees at my local BMW dealership ride almost every day to work, they tour on their bikes and they love bikes.....they are riders! Not one employee at my local Honda Powerhouse dealership rides a motorcycle......not one! They don't give a damn about you as a rider, only as a potential customer. They are much more like circling vultures than humans. Being surrounded by riders when stopping into a dealership makes a big difference. It is a difference I wasn't aware of until I owned a BMW. I can certainly see where this would breed owner loyalty to a brand as it fosters kinship.

As for service, I took my RT in for it's 6000 mile valve check at 9000 miles because I was on a long trip and the mechanic told me to bring it in when I got back. He checked the valves and other things during the service and found everything to be within spec. When I was leaving I said "I guess I will see you in another 9000 miles" with tongue-in-cheek and his reply was "I'd wait another 12,000. These things don't change much after the first 6000 to 7000 miles". So, even the 6000 mile valve check is a recommendation set in place by BMW that is a CYA policy but may not be necessary in real world applications. Also, I was in the service bay the whole time watching the mechanic perform the valve check and asking questions. The service cost for that trip was $60. What does Honda charge for a valve check on the ST? I know the valve check interval is longer on the ST but I could have the dealer check the valves on my RT a whole bunch of times and not equal the cost of ONE valve check on the ST. And, I could sleep well at night knowing the service was performed correctly on my RT. Who knows what the idiots that can't seem to match up arrows on tires and wheels would do to your bike when it rolls into the bowels of the Honda dealership?

I'm not here to bash Honda or the beloved ST (I do know what forum to which I'm posting). However, I do think some of the jabs at BMW are getting stale. They have seemed to have addressed the final drive issue. The new bikes don't appear to be having any failures. That's good because I own a new one. There are quirks and things that leave one scratching their head on occasion. I do this as well with my Honda NC700X. No bike is perfect.

I DO NOT believe that the RT costs more to maintain than my ST did. This would be even more true if you were to follow regular service intervals and have the dealers do all of the service. I think BMW would come out to be much cheaper. In fact, some things like tires and brake pads wear longer on the RT than on the ST.

I think some phrases get repeated without merit: "the ST weaves at high speed", "BMW final drives fail all of the time", "BMW=Bring More Wallet". Granted, some people have had bad experiences with BMW in the past and will express their hatred at every opportunity. I have not had a bad experience with my BMW and hope I never do. I've spent way too much time typing.
Ride safe,
Mike
 
Bug Dr. said:
However, I do think some of the jabs at BMW are getting stale.
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A valid point. Still, some people don't like them, for whatever reasons matter to them, and when someone else raises the topic they share their $.02. This is a discussion forum, after all.

I was convinced I wanted an RT, but when I rode one the motor was a dealbreaker. That first RT was an 1150. I have since tried a 1200 after hearing from the BMW faithful that it was so much improved over the 1150. That wasn't what I found. I like the RT's lightness which makes it handle nicely yet I don't like its vague-feeling front end. No bike is perfect. The ST certainly isn't

Are RT's nice bikes? A lot of people think so. For me, the engine spoils it.
 
The Motor is the dealbreaker (or maker). Don't really care about the amenities, or the dealer issues, or the wt. On the interstates or better state hwys., the heavier ST is more stable and comfortable, and the V4 smoothness can't be topped.
 
Ahem! I ride a 2011 RT. Yes, BMWs can be more expensive to maintain, but... they do not need to be dealer serviced any more than any other brand. A service manual is available, not as a printed manual like the truly excellent ST1300 book from Honda but on a CD. For $120... for a CD! Ouch! So far as I know there are no Clymer or similar service books available for the cam-head RT.

As mentioned previously, the experience in having a BMW dealer-serviced is in a whole different league than any Honda dealer. Hourly rates (around my area) are pretty similar between all the brands but I feel like the BMW techs actually know what they are doing and will do it right the first time. That has not always been my experience with Honda dealers whose techs may be whizzes at CBRs and dirt bikes but know diddly about the ST13.

I was able to test ride as many different BMW models as I wanted. I was not able to ride an ST13 before I bought one in 2003 and still can't today.

The boxer motor, due to be upgraded to the new water-cooled version in 2014, is certainly different from the wonderful ST V4. You can feel the engine working but it is never obtrusive or unpleasant. I fact it feels like you are riding a motorcycle! At 110 HP it delivers more than enough power for the RT's weight (you certainly want to compare the weights of the RT, ST and Trophy) and the power curve is as broad and flat as the ST. The RT has a 6-speed gearbox. And you know that legendary ST1300 heat that cooks the left shin of many riders? None of that on the RT.

I really enjoyed my '03 ST1300. Rode it across the country and lots of great places. Never sorry I bought it (mostly). But there's a lot to like about the BMW, too. And then some. Anyone considering a big sport-tourer ought to test ride the Beemer. The Trophy, too. But you won't be unhappy with any of them. In my opinion.

pete
"Be yourself. Everyone else is already taken." - Oscar Wilde
 
Hey everyone,, ,,,,,,And thanks for all the good info, That's what I like about this forum,, The People!! I remebered back several years ago BMW in Atlanta let me test ride a GS-650,, which I liked, and I had forgotten that there was a BMW dealership in Orange Park, Thanks Dave D. for the reminder, hope you are well, Hey Dave , all I see that you have listed is 3 Honda's, Still have the BMW?? Yes I think I will do a test ride, just to get a feel for the Flat twin. I would really like to ride an FJR & the Trophy too,, I'll work on that.
The main reason I want something with less weight, is the on/off my trailer. When I travel I like to take my Kayaks, & I want to take the bike too, plus I want something with a better fun factor, better brakes, and several other reasons. I will widen my search to other bikes, including Mellows suggestion of the Adventure bikes, ( wee- stroms etc..) It's a ways off yet, just doin my research.
Thanks again for all the really good advice and of course your time to share the knowledge.
I have started riding again after my Cornea was Ulcerated, it's alittle weird but I'm working it out. Nuttin like a "1 eyed biker". As long as my left eye holds up I can see. Right eye is Blury.. I will be getting a Cornea Transplant, I hope,, I want to see well out of both eyes.

Take care,,, Later Vern
 
Bug Dr is right on with what he says...Well almost. ST motor is what makes the ST & the motor kills the RT. Now put a K vs the ST & the game is over. Vern the one thing that Bug Dr hit right on the head are the BMW dealers(at least the ones I have been to). They know bikes... the others not so much. Well that's my .02 worth.
 
Vern said:
Hey everyone,, ,,,,,,And thanks for all the good info, That's what I like about this forum,, The People!! I remebered back several years ago BMW in Atlanta let me test ride a GS-650,, which I liked, and I had forgotten that there was a BMW dealership in Orange Park, Thanks Dave D. for the reminder, hope you are well, Hey Dave , all I see that you have listed is 3 Honda's, Still have the BMW?? Yes I think I will do a test ride, just to get a feel for the Flat twin. I would really like to ride an FJR & the Trophy too,, I'll work on that.
The main reason I want something with less weight, is the on/off my trailer. When I travel I like to take my Kayaks, & I want to take the bike too, plus I want something with a better fun factor, better brakes, and several other reasons. I will widen my search to other bikes, including Mellows suggestion of the Adventure bikes, ( wee- stroms etc..) It's a ways off yet, just doin my research.
Thanks again for all the really good advice and of course your time to share the knowledge.
I have started riding again after my Cornea was Ulcerated, it's alittle weird but I'm working it out. Nuttin like a "1 eyed biker". As long as my left eye holds up I can see. Right eye is Blury.. I will be getting a Cornea Transplant, I hope,, I want to see well out of both eyes.

Take care,,, Later Vern
Click to expand...
The new OP BMW dealership is A Very Good Thing because the Daytona and Orlando ones (owned by the same guy) are like the Honda dealers bashed in this thread. Folks would go 350 miles to Atlanta or 250 to Sarasota before they would go back to Daytona or Orlando. Don is trying very hard in Orange Park though and is a really good guy. He has had quite a bit of turnover in the service department - a new service manager just started, the third in a year and a half. I sold my BMW to make room for the NC700 which I'm having a blast on.

Tom, I hope your eye continues to heal. If you didn't know, Riding Into History starts at BMW of Orange Park on Saturday. I am thinking of going to the dealership to meet some friends before riding over to RIH at World Golf Village. Let me know if you are interested.
 
I have the 2012 RT, previous bike was a '99 ST, the ownership experience has been all positive. When I went into the dealer there was non of this are you ready to make an offer today or are you going to waste more of my time which the Honda dealer a couple of blocks away seemed to have. They had a fully loaded model on the floor and I liked everything about but they kept telling me that less expensive bike could be had within a week, exact opposite of any car experience were they always try to up-sell. Service has been reasonable and no gouging on tires and even give you a loaner bike. I have not had any mechanical issue with the bike to date and hope it stays that way. There is a lot of talk about the feel of the motor and I actually prefer the feel of the boxer, it feels like a motorcycle and once I had about 4 or 5,000 km on it it became free revving willing to red line without complaint, when I first got it I had the feeling that it needed to be shifted at 5,000 rpm.

Gerhard
 
2010 and newer RT's have the newer engine that is more fun to ride. next year will bring the new more higher powered liquid cooled boxer. someone posted some spy pics of it that looked nice especially the dash with the enclosure made for the gps. i couldn't be happier with my RT.
 
Just a few comments about maintenance. This is just about maintenance--nothing else.

I have owned three ST1300s. Checking the valves on the V4 is not too difficult once you get all the tupperware off, get your angled mirror so you can see the timing mark through the little hole, etc. Now, changing shims on the V4 is more difficult, especially if you can't get the soft headed screws loose to remove the air intake stacks. Releasing the chain tensioner to get the cams out is also tricky but a lot of riders get it done. By comparison, the 2010+ RT is a cam head (DOHC) and checking the valves is a piece of cake in comparison. And if a new shim is needed, they are probably more expensive than a Non BMW shim but much easier to replace. They are larger and the shape of half a sphere so there is more material.

There is a Haynes Manual available for 2010+ RT,s and also a $25 maintenance DVD that provides tools needed and step by step procedures, with pictures, for all the maintenance requirements. Several BMW clubs have the GS-911 Hexcode digital devise that plugs into the BMW brain and CANBUS system that allows resetting of every thing from the maintenance due date to setting the stepper motors for doing a throttle synch as well as checking all various components for faults.

With the "jugs" sticking out, most of the mechanical maintenance items are easy accessible. Overall I would say the RT is easier to DIY maintenance than the ST1300. I think RT OEM air filters are less expensive than the ST air filter. I am not sure about OEM oil filters comparison. BMW are $15. The Cam head uses a special NGK spark plug and there are two for each cylinder. They are $12-$16 each, depending on the supply source. Brake bleeding/flushing is less complicated with the BMW. I am not sure but I think I remember something like either 16 or 25 steps for the ST1300 ABS brake bleed plus tipping the front master dive cylinder (don't remember the name) on the ST and if you want to bleed the ABS valve, the tupperware on the one side has to come off to get to the ABS valve.

So, for those interested in the DIY maintenance perspective, based on my own experience, the cam head maintenance is easier than maintenance on the St1300 ABS but certain items like valve checks are more often with the BMW RT. I am not sure about part prices. I assume some BMW OEM parts are more expensive, if for no other reason, BMW controls the supply of parts tightly and there are few, if any, discount OEM BMW parts available.
 
I wanted an RT when I bought my first ST but was scared off because of reliability horror $torie$. I still haven't ridden one but love the way it fits while sitting on one. I hope to add a "touring" bike someday to what I have now. High on the list are a Wing and FJR, haven't ridden a Trophy or RT yet. I want to ride both of those, however I am leaning towards and wanting to like the RT. For looks, comfort, heat and weight reasons. Don't know if I will be able to get over the engine (preconceived notion) but I hope so. If it vibrates too much it's not a contender. I think the RT is the best looking of all the Sport Tourers (except for that engine). Will be looking for pre water cooled when the time comes.
 
I too have been thinking of the r1200rt, love the dealership There is a defiantly rider feel to the sales staff. Also they will gladly let me test ride the bikes for as long as I want. I love the way the bike handles and its standard equipment. Also that lost 150lbs over the st is noticable.

Right now I have a love hate relationship with the bmw cars I own. The fear of some very expensive repair is always out there, although I have never had a problem. Bmw is very into scheduled maintenance. If I owned the r1200rt I probably do most of this myself just like the st.

The st has that silky smooth powerful engine that I enjoy so much in bmw autos. But the r1200rt has that v-twin feel of vibes on acceleration that I am not so sure I would get used to . The vibes on my previously v-twin would make my hands go numb. That is probably the only thing holding me back, besides the considerably more cash needed to buy it. :D
 
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There really is no more vibration at speed than my ST1100 had, the mirrors are clear at any speed other than 0. Certainly no vibration in the handle bars, this isn't like a Harley.

Gerhard
 
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