Rear Brake Dragging

Blrfl said:
$300 to do the rear brake pads? Holy markup, Batman! The pad set is $45 and they take about a half hour to install at a leisurely pace. Add 10 minutes if you stop to clean the pistons and disc.



The problem in your case is not a result of an engineering or manufacturing defect, which means it isn't covered by the warranty.

What you have there is a defective dealer service department which should be replaced immediately, if not sooner. :rolleyes:

--Mark
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I exxagerated the cost a bit. I think the pad replacement was actually about $140, I also had both tires replaced (read my previous post completely) which made it a total of $300. oil change as well and whatever else needed to be done at 25k miles.

as for the warranty issue, thats what I have been reading in this thread: it seems to be a bad design, thus the question if anyone actually discussed this with Honda, and why I felt it should be a warranty or recall issue. This bike was garaged it's entire life and hasn't even gotten dirty. the dealer excuse for the $200 rear caliper rebuild was dirt due to the recompression of the piston into the cylinder after the brake pad replacement. They said they try to clean it as best they can... I am more concerned about the fact it still is having a problem. What needs to be done? replace the darn caliper? :-(

shop is very good. any dealer is going to be pricey. I live iun the SF bay area and that also adds to the labor cost. no markup on the pads, they actually only charged me $37 or so for them. I wanted dealer work this time around as it was the first service since I bought it last year.
 
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schla said:
I exxagerated the cost a bit. I think the pad replacement was actually about $140, I also had both tires replaced (read my previous post completely) which made it a total of $300.
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Ah, okay, and I misinterpreted what you wrote. I take back all of the horrible, terrible, mean, nasty, rotten things I said about your dealer. :coolit:

This bike was garaged it's entire life and hasn't even gotten dirty. ... the dealer excuse for the $200 rear caliper rebuild was dirt due to the recompression of the piston into the cylinder after the brake pad replacement.
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If you've used the brakes enough that the pads need replacement, some of the brake dust thrown off during braking will have ended up on the pistons.

The service manual says to compress the pistons before cleaning them, which isn't really the right thing to do, because any stuck-on dirt will be dragged past the seals. I pull the pads first and then give it all a good squirt of brake cleaner and let it sit a bit before retracting the pistons. If I've got the rear wheel off, I'll get in there with a toothbrush and get it nice and clean.

What needs to be done? replace the darn caliper? :-(
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If they rebuilt it and did it right, probably not. The caliper itself is just a chunk of metal with passages in it, and the only reason I can think of to replace it would be if the threads for the hoses or bleeders were damaged.

I can't say I've ever had my rear brakes make noise like you've described, but it does make me wonder if maybe the pads aren't in right.

--Mark
 
ChucksKLRST said:
Have your dealer check and clean the secondary master cylinder on the front. If it does not release properly than the rear will drag. Pay close attention to all the notes in the service manual about servicing the SMC. Not all dealers are competent with the linked breaking system and the SMC. Not all dealer shops read the manual. Take a look at the folks working on the bikes and see if they have the manual with them. Problem could be something else, but most rear break problems have been traced back the the SMC getting dirty or corroded and not releasing properly.
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+1 on this. mine locked up completely at a stop, and I had to release the fluid in order to ride it on to the dealer!

The tech found the secondary master cyl dirty. Now what I don't know is how the crud got in there! I had about 15k on mine then.
 
Blrfl said:
Ah, okay, and I misinterpreted what you wrote. I take back all of the horrible, terrible, mean, nasty, rotten things I said about your dealer. :coolit:



If you've used the brakes enough that the pads need replacement, some of the brake dust thrown off during braking will have ended up on the pistons.

The service manual says to compress the pistons before cleaning them, which isn't really the right thing to do, because any stuck-on dirt will be dragged past the seals. I pull the pads first and then give it all a good squirt of brake cleaner and let it sit a bit before retracting the pistons. If I've got the rear wheel off, I'll get in there with a toothbrush and get it nice and clean.



If they rebuilt it and did it right, probably not. The caliper itself is just a chunk of metal with passages in it, and the only reason I can think of to replace it would be if the threads for the hoses or bleeders were damaged.

I can't say I've ever had my rear brakes make noise like you've described, but it does make me wonder if maybe the pads aren't in right.

--Mark
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well, they took the bike back once and rebuilt the calipers and it still does it. its not as bad but still annoying. what really bugs me is this appears to be a design flaw that Honda won't fess up to. that ain't right IMO.

thanks
 
schla said:
well, they took the bike back once and rebuilt the calipers and it still does it. its not as bad but still annoying. what really bugs me is this appears to be a design flaw that Honda won't fess up to. that ain't right IMO.

thanks
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What exactly is the problem with your rear brake: just noise?
 
Don Miller said:
Well Chuck, you were on the money. After just one year and 7,000 miles on the clock, corrosion around the piston in the secondary master cylinder was causing the piston to stick and in turn, causing the rear brake to drag. The forward facing, upward orientation of the recessed piston in the SMC encourages water to enter this area when riding in the rain or when the bike is washed. It doesn't take much encouragement for the teeny tiny drain hole to plug and create a perfect environment for corrosion. It's maybe a bit extreme to call this a design flaw, but is most definitely a design deficiency with expensive consequences outside the warranty. The dealer suggested a shot of compressed air in the pocket after a wash or wet ride. After my experience, I'd say that's a "must".
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Been reading through so many posts here and came across this thread.
Checked my '08 as was driving in the rain last week and Honda must be paying attention. No longer a drain hole - there is now a groove down the front of the unit.
See attached pic.
 

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rbthomas said:
Been reading through so many posts here and came across this thread.
Checked my '08 as was driving in the rain last week and Honda must be paying attention. No longer a drain hole - there is now a groove down the front of the unit.
See attached pic.
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Interesting. Thx.

What will they do next: new thermostat?
 
rbthomas said:
Checked my '08 as was driving in the rain last week and Honda must be paying attention. No longer a drain hole - there is now a groove down the front of the unit.
See attached pic.
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Good catch, Bruce. The new part is 06454-MCS-G02.

--Mark
 
just got off phone with dealer service guy,my bikes been there for two weeks, first it was seals,then some valve up front,flush out systeme,call honda tech, now honda says change smc,which is what i told them to do two weeks ago.
 
krotchrocketgrampa said:
just got off phone with dealer service guy,my bikes been there for two weeks, first it was seals,then some valve up front,flush out systeme,call honda tech, now honda says change smc,which is what i told them to do two weeks ago.
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Same deal when it happened to me. It just took a couple of months instead of weeks.
 
I don't mean to hijack this thread but after reading posts about dragging rear brakes I tested mine. I have a 2007 st with only about 5K miles on it. The rear wheel spins freely but I can hear the brake pads touching/"scraping" the rotor as if there was just a little brake pressure applied. I don't know how much noise is normal or if you should hear anything at all. Any comments would be appreciated as I plan on attending Westoc and want to get this looked at if there is a problem. Many thanks
 
Dr. Tom said:
I don't mean to hijack this thread but after reading posts about dragging rear brakes I tested mine. I have a 2007 st with only about 5K miles on it. The rear wheel spins freely but I can hear the brake pads touching/"scraping" the rotor as if there was just a little brake pressure applied. I don't know how much noise is normal or if you should hear anything at all. Any comments would be appreciated as I plan on attending Westoc and want to get this looked at if there is a problem. Many thanks
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A little is fine.. every honda I've had has done that on both front and rear.
 
Dr. Tom said:
I don't mean to hijack this thread but after reading posts about dragging rear brakes I tested mine. I have a 2007 st with only about 5K miles on it. The rear wheel spins freely but I can hear the brake pads touching/"scraping" the rotor as if there was just a little brake pressure applied. I don't know how much noise is normal or if you should hear anything at all. Any comments would be appreciated as I plan on attending Westoc and want to get this looked at if there is a problem. Many thanks
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Tom: Mellow is on the money. If I may add a few words...

Since "light" is subjective with respect to "light" brake drag, one way to tell whether or not the drag is excessive is to ride your bike a quarter mile or so, downshift through the gears and come to a mild stop (go light on the bakes). Get off and feel your rotors. At the most, all three rotors should be only mildly warm (if that) to the touch. Although "warm" is a bit subjective too, with the problem I had, the rear brake rotor was HOT; and I burned the tips of my fingers when I touched the rear rotor. Another indication of "serious drag" was the very noticeable blue discoloration of the rear rotor due to the intense heat caused by the excessive drag (man, I sure wish I noticed that before touching it!). The heat also "cooked" the brake fluid, turning it from clear to a brownish color. Too, the load on the engine to maintain constant speed was noticeably greater and if I pulled in the clutch while coasting on a level grade, the bike slowed considerably faster than "normal".

Fortunately, my highly competent local Honda dealer service manager identified the root cause of the problem (corrosion in the secondary master cylinder) right out of the gate and my bike was out of commission for only a little more than a week while awaiting the arrival of a replacement SMC. The service was performed under warranty.

Regards,

Don Miller
 
Thanks for the tips Don. I'm leaving for Westoc this weekend (lots of detours) so I'll check that out. I wouldn't say that I've noticed a "cooked" look to the rear rotor but I'll give it the finger test after a short ride.
 
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