Rear Brake Pads

Hey y'all. Oddly I'm in the middle of refurbishing the back end of my 2001 st11 while following several threads about brakes, tires, red paint, etc... IMHO there are simply way to many variables to rate one tire or brake combo superior. Riding styles, weight, road surfaces, performance expectations and paint color all require different materials and approaches to setting up a bike that really works the way you like it. Some insist that since Honda built it a certain way, any deviation from that brings chaos and hard feelings. If that were true than Honda wouldn't ever have to improve any of it's designs or materials, a 93 st11 would still be perfect. I for one love the fact that I have the option of customizing mine to be a ride that fits almost all my desires in a motorcycle. BTW, has anybody discovered the perfect route for my summer ride? I have two weeks and I am not going to waste it, but that's another thread. Thanks for letting me vent.
 
I have tried OEM and EBC pads for my 2007 ST1300 - with EBC I only tried the thin/front" model in both ends. With OEM I get at least 25,000 miles out of a set of pads and front and rear seem to last about the same, but when using the thinner/front model in the rear, I only get 15,000 miles or less. No big deal, but why not go with the proper thickness in the rear, so that I get twice the mileage? I later went exclusively with OEM as the price difference was fairly small, and when you consider that you only have to replace every three years, it's really minor cost...
 
Igofar said:
I would suggest you keep an eye on the wear pattern on the rear set, as well as the left front set, and watch for signs of your brakes dragging or over heating.
The fitment on EBC pads can be hit or miss, and when used in the front calipers, can cause dragging issues.
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scientifically ,, where is there a fact to this?. if theyre fitted correctly to a caliper with free pistons and sliders, clean and uncorroded or worn points or contact, and balanced braking valves operating it, then that is rubbish, and any pad fitted somewhat incorrectly, even oem, to a caliper needing serviced is no more likely to give similar issues.
any brake fitted is dependant on a lot of factors, and the person fitting them, and the age and mileage on the machine(brake parts).
unless you have won a court battle condeming ebc brakes to be dangerous to oem.:confused::eek:o_O
 
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mortenk said:
I have tried OEM and EBC pads for my 2007 ST1300 - with EBC I only tried the thin/front" model in both ends. With OEM I get at least 25,000 miles out of a set of pads and front and rear seem to last about the same, but when using the thinner/front model in the rear, I only get 15,000 miles or less. No big deal, but why not go with the proper thickness in the rear, so that I get twice the mileage? I later went exclusively with OEM as the price difference was fairly small, and when you consider that you only have to replace every three years, it's really minor cost...
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there is also the factor of smaller milage gaps, would involve more stripping and checking of parts, and therefore you would be double checking your brakes and feeling much safer on the road, i i only ride in the summer now due to arthritis, so i strip my brakes seasonally, 15k here to me could be 5-6 years.
i see an advantage to more checks than less.
each to their own circumstances however. :thumb:
 
kenG said:
scientifically ,, where is there a fact to this?. if theyre fitted correctly to a caliper with free pistons and sliders, clean and uncorroded or worn points or contact, and balanced braking valves operating it, then that is rubbish, and any pad fitted somewhat incorrectly, even oem, to a caliper needing serviced is no more likely to give similar issues.
any brake fitted is dependant on a lot of factors, and the person fitting them, and the age and mileage on the machine(brake parts).
unless you have won a court battle condeming ebc brakes to be dangerous to oem.:confused::eek:o_O
Click to expand...

No scientific proof, just having replaced hundreds of pads over the last 14 or so years on these bikes, which included Police motors, escort motors, civilian motors, Iron Butt Riders bikes, long distance riders, globe trotters, etc.
And.....after speaking to the folks that make the EBC pads :rofl1:
Long story short, in the begining, since the ST's have gone the way of the Dodo bird, EBC decided NOT to tool up and make the correct fitment for the Honda ST1300 series of bikes (thinner set up front with no notch, and thicker set in the rear, with a notch, as well as a heat shield) and first sold the only ones they offered (thick rear set, however, without the much needed heat shield) to be used in both applications...I've got buckets full of like new EBC pads that were removed from fleets and privately owned motors, because of brake dragging issues etc. The EBC pads when placed in the front caliper(s) did not have enough room to back away from the rotor, thus causing fluid to be sent rearward via the SMC, causing the rear brakes to drag etc.
While I've used EBC pads in many different types/brands of motorcycles, In my personal opinion, a person would be better off with the OEM pads on this one model.
But like you pointed out, since I have no scientific proof, every word in this post is Rubbish.
 
but, and this is a big but, if brakes are dragging, that is a piston not returning, or tight at the contact areas, its not rocket science to touch the face of a contact area like at the notch, with a grinder to assist fitting, or remove the caliper and clean all the surfaces built up with dust and grime. stripping one pin and pushing them in blind to a high miler isnt fitting pads correctly.(although thats what most main dealers call it, then its a service extra and a larger bill)
im 30 years HGV mechanic, when shoes or pads stick on those, there are all sorts, springs , s-cams, air valves etc, (actually i dont think iv ever found a faulty pad or shoe in all that time) etc the bike is simple, clearance(no debris) and piston releasing sufficiently.
and thats human factor fitment, faults in the system causing drag could be smc sticking, or other valves or moisture build up in the fluid and a dozen other factors. i just think its poor to just blame one item on.

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I fitted a set of aftermarket brakes pads to the front and rear of my ST 1100 last year - not by choice, but because OEM ones were not in stock in the country I was touring in. The work was done correctly (pistons cleaned, fluid changed, etc.), however, I found that the aftermarket pads, when new, dragged quite a bit on both the front and rear.

After about 3,000 km (2,000 miles), the dragging went away - I'm guessing because the pads wore down a bit.

Based on that experience - my first set of aftermarket pads in over 300,000 km of riding both my 1100 and 1300 - I'm not ever going to fit aftermarket pads again on either of my motorcycles. The cost difference between OEM and aftermarket pads is not significant when calculated on a "cost per 1,000 mile" basis - it's not like the cost difference between Michelin vs. Shinko tires, for example.

Just sharing my experience, for what it's worth.

Michael
 
I used EBC pads on one of my motorcycle only once. I did not have any real complaint about their ability to stop the bike. I did find that they were quite a bit noisier than the Honda pads. No squealing but rather the sound that is made when the pads are forced in to contact with rotors was louder to the point that you could hear it. I never heard it with the OEM pads. After I wore them out I put OEM pads back on and there was no more noise so it must be the pad material that they used for that model.

As far as OEM vs aftermarket. I used to work as a mechanic in a very large GM dealership where I regularly received GM factory technical training. The training sessions and working in a large dealership gave me the opportunity to meet and talk with various technical staff at GM. A conversation came up once regarding why there was such a price difference between GM original equipment brake pads/shoes vs aftermarket. In the aftermarket brakes I include the AC Delco brand which was kind of like GM jobber. They were also cheaper but they were not the GM original equipment brake pads/shoes. I was told that in order to get a vehicle approved for sale in North America there was a bunch of criteria that had to be met. Included in that was the braking system had to meet certain government specified criteria. The aftermarket brake pad/shoe manufacturers did not have to meet the same criteria because this was applied only during the vehicle certification process. Aftermarket brake pads/shoes are never included on a vehicle submitted for certification so they are never tested to the same standard. They only had to meet the manufacturing standards of their industry and the quality expectations of the purchasing public as well as make sure that they were not exposing themselves to any legal liability- kind of like meet the minimum standard and then add what will give you a marketing advantage.

There used to be a large aftermarket brake pad/shoe manufacturer here in Montréal. I toured their facility once and they pretty much told me the same thing. They told me that they manufacture some brake pads/shoes as original equipment for a few vehicle manufacturers but they were not the same as what they manufactured for the aftermarket sellers for the very same vehicles.

In my own personal experience in the distant past I have found that the biggest difference between OEM and aftermarket brake pads/shoes, besides not lasting as many miles, is their ability to handle sustained high levels of heat. I find aftermarket exhibit much more heat related brake fade than the original equipment do. This may have changed and aftermarket may have significantly improved- I don't know because I stopped using them on my personal vehicles years ago based on my experiences with them. All of what I have related above is my experience with car/light truck brakes. I don't know how much of it transfers to the motorcycle world. However, like most ST riders, I seek out the twisties and the mountains so heat related brake fade is a consideration for me. When I get to that hairpin turn at the bottom of a mountain road I want to know that there is still some braking ability left. Based on that alone I use OEM brake pads on my ST.
 
The fact that EBC chose to not follow the factory criteria in regards to length, size, and thickness, and omit the heat shield (because it was cheaper to produce without it) and knowingly cut corners as far as fitment on "this model" motorcycle, and simply produce a product that was close enough to fit that application, was enough reason for me to suggest not using them, and stick with OEM pads. Just in my personal experience with these pads, in both stopping tests (on a closed course test) wear, and problems/issues, the EBC pads were louder, and wore the rotors faster than the OEM pads, and as stated, caused more brake issues due to poor fitment etc.
Honda does not make the OEM pads, however, the pad they chose to use on these bikes seems to not only work better, but last longer, and have less issues.
Again, this is just MY OPINION, and I am in no way trying to force or suggest that anyone must follow it.
 
Not all aftermarket parts are inferior to the OEM parts. There are lots of aftermarket choices ,but usually the lower priced parts are less quality than OEM.
I don't find that the price of the OEM brake pads too bad, so I will also use them with my ST.
Aftermarket companies make all kinds of different brake pad recipes for different applications, so don't you think it's possible that some of the pads they make for Honda , don't always have the honda "stamp" and are sold under another name?
I work for a paper converting company and when we change the brand name packaging to service different customers, the paper inside is "exactly" the same in most cases. But some people swear that there are differences in the product. :)
I also tried EBC pads before on other bikes and there is definitely fitment issues, braking efficiency and longevity problems on the pads that I bought. For the big ST powerhouse , OEM brakes for me.
 
Kevcules said:
Aftermarket companies make all kinds of different brake pad recipes for different applications, so don't you think it's possible that some of the pads they make for Honda , don't always have the honda "stamp" and are sold under another name?
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The pads that they make for Honda and other vehicle manufacturers are made to that manufacturer's specifications. If the premise that the manufacturer requires a higher standard because the manufacturer needs that level of quality to get the vehicle certified is accepted, than no I don't believe that the brake manufacturer is selling the same OEM brake product under a different name. The reason I don't believe it is not because I trust them implicitly to respect the car manufacturer's brand name and market share. The reason is that they are not going to spend top dollar to manufacture a brake pad at the highest quality level with the intention of selling it in the jobber parts industry where they cannot ask or get anywhere near the same amount of money for it. They manufacture lesser quality brake pads with the intention of selling them at a lesser price while still retaining the same profit margin. If that premise is hogwash, and it may well be, then all bets are off.
 
Aftermarket fitment products, on motorcycle parts, are always (in my opinion) lesser quality than what came as original equipment.
Take Harley Davidson as an example, the parts that came factory almost always fit, and worked as expected....however, EVERYTHING in the Screaming Eagle accessory catalog is made in China, Vietnam, India, or elsewhere and almost always does not fit properly.
 
The problem as I see it is with the "incredibly huge mark up" from the dealership. What I was getting at was that the companies that make these brake pads for Honda with indeed a specified recipe are most likely selling the same exact pad with a different brand name. How many recipes do you think they can make? These brake pad manufacturers will usually mark their product up say 20% when selling to honda and probably the same mark up when selling to another aftermarket company , or even another brand name like Yamaha. I wonder if Yamaha and Honda have the same recipe? Then the owners of these pads will increase their mark up by what ever they decide. The dealerships usually have a huge mark up and the aftermarket sellers not so much. I would guess that you can't buy the same or near same quality pad and save 50%. But I do think you can save enough to make it a good option in some cases.

My Toyota Rav4 uses "Advics" brake pads. Not many know the manufacturer of the parts we buy from the dealer. My brother in law told me this. (toyota mechanic) He also said that Rock Auto and many others sometimes sell the exact same pads for way less than the dealership he works at. He also goes to Napa alot when getting "toyota parts" :) There are different prices for sometimes the same pads from different sellers. Not all have the same parts, not all can offer the same parts, but some do.

Toyota vehicles (I have three of them) that use synthetic oil , use Mobil One. For the last two years anyways. Not everyone knows that. You can buy mobil one at Walmart for a lot less. Is it different oil? Not likely....
Just be aware that you may be paying a lot more than you have to when buying from the dealership. My brother in law gets me parts some times at his cost. Wow.....The dealership mark up is unbelievable.... He still doesn't get it at cost either.......So at a drastically reduced price, the dealership still makes a profit.

I like these forums for the multiple opinions of users that can educate us and sometimes save us the wasted time in trying to save a few dollars , if it's not worth it....Safe operation is another factor not to be taken lightly.
 
Kevcules said:
The problem as I see it is with the "incredibly huge mark up" from the dealership. What I was getting at was that the companies that make these brake pads for Honda with indeed a specified recipe are most likely selling the same exact pad with a different brand name. How many recipes do you think they can make? These brake pad manufacturers will usually mark their product up say 20% when selling to honda and probably the same mark up when selling to another aftermarket company , or even another brand name like Yamaha. I wonder if Yamaha and Honda have the same recipe? Then the owners of these pads will increase their mark up by what ever they decide. The dealerships usually have a huge mark up and the aftermarket sellers not so much. I would guess that you can't buy the same or near same quality pad and save 50%. But I do think you can save enough to make it a good option in some cases.

My Toyota Rav4 uses "Advics" brake pads. Not many know the manufacturer of the parts we buy from the dealer. My brother in law told me this. (toyota mechanic) He also said that Rock Auto and many others sometimes sell the exact same pads for way less than the dealership he works at. He also goes to Napa alot when getting "toyota parts" :) There are different prices for sometimes the same pads from different sellers. Not all have the same parts, not all can offer the same parts, but some do.

Toyota vehicles (I have three of them) that use synthetic oil , use Mobil One. For the last two years anyways. Not everyone knows that. You can buy mobil one at Walmart for a lot less. Is it different oil? Not likely....
Just be aware that you may be paying a lot more than you have to when buying from the dealership. My brother in law gets me parts some times at his cost. Wow.....The dealership mark up is unbelievable.... He still doesn't get it at cost either.......So at a drastically reduced price, the dealership still makes a profit.

I like these forums for the multiple opinions of users that can educate us and sometimes save us the wasted time in trying to save a few dollars , if it's not worth it....Safe operation is another factor not to be taken lightly.
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There's a reason they are called STealers. :(
 
.update.
.
iv 1000mls up on my receintly fitted pads, and now theyre bedded in, i do feel a boost in stopping power, then i did fit new t31 tyres at the same time, so maybe both are benefitting the effect.
.
if everyone is against aftermarket pads, whats the view on oil filters?
i use hiflo on my bike.
fram on my car.
.
two major factors for oem.
.
.
 
kenG said:
.update.
.
iv 1000mls up on my receintly fitted pads, and now theyre bedded in, i do feel a boost in stopping power, then i did fit new t31 tyres at the same time, so maybe both are benefitting the effect.
.
if everyone is against aftermarket pads, whats the view on oil filters?
i use hiflo on my bike.
fram on my car.
.
two major factors for oem.
.
.
Click to expand...
If you're looking for an interesting and informative read on oil filters try the CalSci website, otherwise there have been lots of opinions offered here before. Which Oil Filter? or more recently, ST1300 small oil filter.
 
kenG said:
if everyone is against aftermarket pads, whats the view on oil filters?
i use hiflo on my bike.
Click to expand...
Use OEM and never look back. As long as I can still get them.:)
I'm not sure but our filter may be the same as the 2003-20017 GW.??
 
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jfheath said:
I know absolutely nothing about what makes a good oil filter or what makes a bad one - or whether or not there is some matching of volume / oil flow with the needs of the engine. So like most things when I don't know, I err on the side of caution. I have resorted to using Champion or Bosch in the past when I have forgotten to order OEM - known names of quality products - but generally, I just go for OEM.

I've noted that on occasions, I have had a different part number supplied. It fits, it clears the side stand and centre stand but it is longer than the correct part. I don't know what if any is the difference or why a longer version would be made. I guess that more oil can be filtered in the same time. I don't lose sleep over that, but certainly it is an area where a little research may pay off - if the standard of quality control can be determined.
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If you are interested in learning about oil filters I recommend the CalSci web page, which discusses filter material, bypass valves, etc. It was an eyeopener for me.
 
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