Recommendations for a Phase Change Cooling vest?

[MidLife]

Found posts on the forum on evaporative type cooling vests, unfortunately they are quite inefficient in the high humidity of the Texas coastal area.

Anybody has tried and can recommend one of the phase change type cooling vests?

 

[MidLife]

Yes, you have that absolutely right...evaporation does not really work when the air is saturated already at 95% humidity. I'm a new member of the ST-Owners forum, but when I'm not on two wheels I own a company called Glacier Tek, manufacturer of The Original Cool Vest. See my site at www.coolvest.com and if you decide to get one, remember to use coupon code STOWNERS-10 for a 10% discount from your entire order at checkout. I'll be glad to help with any questions.

Ray,

Coolvest was actualy my first google hit!

Which model would you recommend for motorcycling: concealed?

I kept looking though (and this was my reason to post on this board) because there are other vests on the market that looks similar to my uneducated eyes but are somewhat on the more affordable side (although the 10% off you are offering helps a bit).

Also, on the coolvest site, it is difficult to see where the cooling packs are actually fitting on the body. I like to keep the upper part of the torso cool.

From a cost standpoint, the Motor Sport specific vest from CoolSport is very attractive.

Then there is the OccuNomix PCCS Phase 1 which looks good also and fits high on the torso. Would be my pick right now. Compact and relatively light, would not take too much luggage room when not in use. Seems to be quite popular for industrial usage and can be found at discounted prices.

Then there is a strange site from a company in your neck of the wood that you are probably familar with, the 50 deg company, which displays good looking products but offers only K9 related activity vests on the shopping side of their site. Bizarre.

And the biker specific vest from RideCool.com looks good too!

Would appreciate if you could take the time to outline how the Glacier Tek vest distinguishes itself from these competing offerings. It is an expensive product and am trying to get is as close as possible to right on the first try! A spare cool pack (to be carried in a cooler) has to be considered in the cost, as a phase change vest usually provides cooling for only about two hours.

Thanks.

 

[Medicine Bear]

Ray, this may seem like a strange question in the middle of summer but can your Coolvest be used in the winter as a warming vest by warming the coolpac instead of cooling it?

Just curious and trying to figure a way to get maximum utility from it.

Please pardon the question if it was covered on your Internet site - I might have missed it.

Fred

 

[Austin city limits]

Ray, this may seem like a strange question in the middle of summer but can your Coolvest be used in the winter as a warming vest by warming the coolpac instead of heating it?

:::::continued hints that medicine bear is working on dinners you cook while riding allowing you to never get off:::::

 

[Medicine Bear]

Terry, it's the only way I could conceivably do an SS1000 or BBG1500. If I had to stop, I'd probably never get back on.

Fred

 

[Louie Louie]

I'll be glad to help with any questions.

How does this vest compare to a six six one?

Thanks!

 

[Mellow]

Ray, in the top of this there there is a thread tools link that will allow you to subscribe to this thread and you'll get email notifications once you confirm that on the next page that comes up.

 

[Mellow]

How much does the vest, like the concealable, weigh? I have something at home that I tried a couple years back and it has the pellets in it that absorb water... it's very light when dried out but quite heavy when it has absorbed the water.

It was okay but once the water is the same temp as your body or the air I guess, it's just a clammy feeling and more gross than useful.

I'm assuming your packs don't absorb anything other than they are cooled by ice water so they are always the same weight... ???

 

[Mellow]

Okay.. I found it, less than 5lbs which surely doesn't seem unreasonable to me..

 

[MidLife]

Ray,

Thanks for your time passing on this useful info. And to confirm that the concealable model may be the best option for ATGATT riders like me.

And also for the secrets and tricks to keep the expenses down at check out time! These now makes the Glacier Tek vest quite attractive from a cost perspective.

I also think that the adjustability you mention your vest has is quite important: If you cannot get the vest to fit right, it will not be very efficient at keeping you cool either.

The one part that still puzzles me is the non toxicity issue. Would be quite an important consideration in case of a get off where the packs could be punctured and could leak into wounds. The confusing part is that the "other guys" are also claiming being non-toxic.

For instance, Texas Cool Vest here in Houston claims the following:

Q. Is the chemical in the phase change material Cool Packs toxic?

A. The chemical in the phase change material technology coolpacks is completely nontoxic, safe, and environmentally friendly. If swallowed, it acts as a laxative. Should the Cool Pack become punctured and bleed onto your skin, it may cause very minor irritation, so it's important that you scrub with soap and water. If you'd like a Material Safety Data Sheet on this product, just go back to our Technical Info page, and click on the MSDS page link.

Of course it is strange that on one hand they claim non-toxicity but still recommend scrubbing! And even stranger that the MSDS they refer to is actually no longer posted!

But the StaCool people go one step further:

ARE THE CHEMICALS IN THE THERMOPAKS NON-TOXIC?ThermoPaks are 100% non-toxic and non-flammable. They are FDA approved and safe enough to be used in direct contact with food. Unlike phase-change material that must be washed off immediately when it contacts skin, ThermoPaks offer 100% safety and peace of mind.

I guess StaCool could actually be one of your customers and have their claim right!

Actually, scratch that: I am editing here. It looks like the StaCool pack have to go in a freezer, they cannot be energized in ice water. So we are talking about a different PCM here.

So if I understand what you say correctly, the claims of non-toxicity from the other guys are just that: Claims?

Thanks again.

Hi,

I find that the concealable is popular with riders that wear other gear over top. Here's a little secret: On our "clearance" page, you'll find a desert camo version that is marked down fifty bucks AND your coupon code (STOWNERS-10) gets you another 10% off that. What the page does not say is that the desert camo version is the same design as the concealable.

Comments about the Coolsport product, as well as the PCCS (and ANY other phase change vest: If it does not say RPCM?, it contains hazardous chemicals. Period.) And, we have not licensed our patented bio-based technology to anyone at this time.) Old-style PCM vests use hexadecane as the cooling material. Google that word, and MSDS, and take a look at some of the hazards. Regarding the size and fit, our product is the one upon which all those other brands' design was based. (Their cooling packs are the same size as ours...in fact we manufactured their products for them for many years...until the appeal of lower-priced Chinese knockoffs won their business away.) We offer significant adjustability around the waist and over the shoulder. You are correct that high on the torso is where you want it to fit. Make sure you realize the PCCS-1 is very small, and since PCM requires surface area and mass to function, expect much shorter duration.

How we differentiate: 1. Glacier Tek = The Original Cool Vest, still the best. 100% American made using 100% American materials. No play on words.
2. RPCM? is the ONLY safe PCM, containing all natural ingredients. If our product gets damaged and gets into a wound or in your eye...no problem. The other stuff...you need immediate medical attention.

One more special trick for you: If you want a spare set of packs...don't add them to your cart. Wait until you proceed to check out...and after you've completed your order, you'll be offered a spare set for $89...forty bucks off...AND your coupon applies to this as well. Summer sale...you win if you know how...and I'm giving ST-Owners.com ALL of them here today.

Sorry it took a while to get back to you...I'm new here and don't know how to have the forum let me know when someone posts a reply.

Ray

 

[Gene]

Ray I ordered a santa model with the full front zipper that looks to be a much better style for riding ATGATT, much easier on/off and open for fresh air at indoor quick stops. Ialso tried a 661 last month it worked very well till the humidity really cimbed up here in Md and it became a hot wet cape under the mesh jack.
Ray I ordered a extra set of pads would there be a problem adding them to the inside of a old jacket for the wife to use once and a while without the fancy custom vest as long as they are tight to the body ?

 

[Gene]

Ray I couldn't find the the warranty info anywhere, leakage, stiching general workmanship ? We sure are a picky bunch with lots of questions.

 

[MidLife]

Thx Ray. Had a good chuckle at the MSDS! You made it a pretty clear case: In the world of cool vests, you'd better follow the penguin (and the tricky secret summer special with 10% off)! Looks like you joined the forum just in time to save me some angst and money.

Midlife,

Glad to help. Knowledge is power, and when properly educated, people are happy and enjoy fantastic results from my product. Let me address your toxicity questions, as they are examples of critical "errors of omission" and I speak of them every day.

Texas Cool Vest uses hexadecane. Hexadecane is technically is "non-toxic," which means that it (usually) will not kill you. "Non-Toxic" does not equate to "Safe." Take a look here at what the manufacturer of that PCM states (in ALL CAPS no less) and decide for yourself. (Jump right to section 16 for the fun stuff http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/h1211.htm) I'm thinking it's becoming clearer why their reference to their MSDS is a dead link...but again you must decide for yourself.

StaCool uses frozen "starch" packs. They are very inexpensive (they can buy 30 of those "cube sheets" for about $200...so it's a large profit margin for them, no doubt) but the problem is that they freeze at about 20?F, which is just miserably cold. You'll note their literature states that the vest is "specially insulated." It's neoprene. To insulate you from the getting frostbite on your skin. After the packs melt, you're in a wetsuit, under your jacket. You decide. (Something funny - they say "unlike phase-change material" when referring to their product. Phase change materials are things that change state from liquid to solid at certain temperatures - just like their little frozen pillows. Somebody in Marketing should run things past somebody in Technical over there...) However, their product does not contain chemicals, so they are correct that it will not subject you to the same perils as the old style PCMs.

 

[Mellow]

I'm REALLY liking what I'm hearing here... I always thought one cool vest was the same as the next and never did any research... I bought the cheap version that was probably filled with radioactive pellets from three mile island and just figured that's what a cool vest was... it was okay but didn't change my life in any way and forcing air up my sleep to cool my sweat was just as good if not better...

HOWEVER, I'm thinking this is a great concept and the best part is I'll be able to use one to commute to work and I won't be all wet and clammy from the cheaper version I had but dry and cool...... hmmmm... not to mention as cheap as I am the camo or stanta version is appealing....

 

[Mellow]

Yo Ray... if someone were to guy extra packs... and maybe wanted to keep the extra packs in some cool water while riding so at a gas stop they could just switch them out and allow the spent ones to recharge during a ride..... What are the dimensions of the packs....basically, would they fit in a cooler designed for a six pack of cans? or, would they fill half that cooler?...

 

[Mellow]

Thanks for the quick response...

The main reason I ask is that I typically ride 3 hrs before a gas stop and most STs have another 80-100 miles more range on their bikes than I do. So, a tank here can rannge from 250 to over 300 depending on the riding style. If someone is really trying to put some miles on the road in the summer the fastest recharge method with the least amount of time would be the best option and the most attractive ... If the coolvest lasts on average 2 1/2 hrs but a tank on an ST can go 4 hrs there are a lot here that just won't stop and take the time to switch out packs, but some will... And, I'm sure after 2 1/2 hrs the 'cool' doesn't shut off like a light switch.. I'm sure it still retains cooling properties for some time afterwards...

Anyway, I'm really trying to help ask questions that I think the members here would be interested in. I know that I personally gave up on the cooling vest solution simply because of my one experience... and, I thought they were all the same...

You have changed my mind and I'm thinking I'll be ordering one here in the next couple days.

 

[Mellow]

Thank you, and I appreciate the questions, because they help people understand if this thing is right for their own style. NOTHING is right for everyone.

Two comments about this latest post from you: First, after the RPCM? Cool Packs have expended their heat transfer energy, they DO stop working, so you really can't depend on them lasting longer. Many companies make claims of 4 hours, using the same sized vest, which is simply false. I'd love it if it were true, but I'm certainly not going to make any friends by being quiet about how it actually works. Once the vest needs the packs replaced, you need to do it or recharge them. However, you can swap out for your spare set on the side of the road in about two minutes, without really losing much time. Second, unless someone is carrying a Camelbak or drinking vessel, it's not such a safe idea to go 4 hours without hydration anyway. (Just a tip from a guy who had a heat stroke when I was serving in the Army.) :amb1:

Yeah, lots here have camelbaks... not as many as should.. but many do.. Probably not a bad idea for those that don't to stop and take a drink and switch packs as an excuse...

I'm going to order the red santa version and give it a try.. I'm really thinking it will make me want to commute to/from work more on the bike as I'm pretty beat just riding home work in 100+ temps, even if it is just 20 miles.. the Texas sun is not always fun.. and a traffic jam doesn't help either.

Just an FYI, I know I seem overly enthusiastic about this product but it's because it does sound like a good solution and the site is not getting a cut or any kickback and neither am I so I want to make that clear so people don't think I'm pushing this a little too much.

 

[FJRMGM]

I have been using the MiraCool poncho vest for over a year and it works GREAT - stays cool for three days.

Check it out at http://www.tuffrhino.com/MiraCool_Poncho_Vest_p/hs1045.htm

Those are my comments at the bottom. Very attractive price too.

And I have to disagree with the comments about evaporative cooling vests not being effective in high humidity areas, like where I live in Houston - I notice a BIG difference with the Miracool vest on.

 

[FJRMGM]

It is great that you have found something that you like. Whether something actually works as well as products using other technologies is not nearly always given as much importance in a purchase decision as a person's perception of whether it will provide acceptable benefits when all factors (often cost) are considered equally with performance. (In other words, it works "ok for fifty bucks, because I'm not willing to spend more.") Basic kinetic theory and an understanding of how evaporation actually works makes opinions about whether evaporative technology works in high humidity climates irrelevant.

Without going into a dissertation on the science, it is commonly understood that when high relative humidity exists in the atmosphere, evaporation slows and eventually stops altogether at total saturation (100% RH.) Additionally, the flow rate of air and surface area affect evaporation rate dramatically, making it fail when conditions are not perfect.

Also, some people wear leather or other less-porous jackets and gear when they ride. Evaporation can't happen when the water can not dissipate into the atmosphere. So, that's the beauty of having numerous technologies...as I originally mentioned when I started this thread. Nothing is right for everyone. Evaporative technology is cheap and excellent for those that have the right conditions and circumstances. For those that need performance that does not depend upon weather and things beyond individual control, RPCM is a great choice.

Ray

Very elequent - all I can tell anyone is that I use the MiraCool poncho vest in high humidity(+90 percent) all the time here in Houston and it works well, even standing still at a gas station.

It works better than "OK" for less than fifty bucks and I was willing to spend way more than that when I was looking for an evaporative cooling vest.

Anyone here actually use and have experience with the "Coolvest"?

 

[Mellow]

Very elequent - all I can tell anyone is that I use the MiraCool vest in high humidity(+90 percent) all the time here in Houston and it works well, even standing still at a gas station.

Anyone here actually use and have experience with the "Coolvest"?

I have one on order... I've used the vests before with the pellets that absorb water... they are okay but I wasn't ever very satisfied with them simply because, for me, my own sweat with air flowing from the jacket would keep me cooler than an additional layer of clamy wet vest... If you can keep the air flowing it would work well.. but, you'd still be clammy. That's my experience.

I'll post a review once I get the coolvest.. I plan on commuting to work with it and keeping the packs in the fridge at work until I'm ready to leave.. the ride to work in the morning isn't usually bad but I almost always have a traffic jam or two on the way home which really makes things interesting.