Russel day long

[SMSW]

Sorry to hear about these problems - that seat is v. expensive. But, as you (and others) have said, their customer service is first rate so once you send it back, give them a call, get the person's name that you speak to, and go over everything you want them to do to the seat. Take any notes from the conversation so that if there are more problems down the road, you won't be relying on memory.

 

[Bush]

Agree with Uncle Phil. The best fit is achieved by being there with the bike. Have you ever ridden coast to coast to coast? Make a deal with Russell to extend your warranty until next year and then take a trip of a lifetime. The ride back will be great!

 

[Thunderchief]

 

[Kevcules]

I realize that being there would be ideal and would surely fix any issues that I have with my seat , but in reality, that's not going to happen. I went on a two hour each way drive to PEI NB and my butt and back were not impressed. Even a few days later they are still talking to me.

I did speak with Jay and Daniel and they both seem very knowledgeable but again , when I received my seat after the first adjustment, it was worse. I hope I am not really expected to tell them what I need , but rather I was hoping they would tell me what I needed , after I relay the symptoms that I'm having. I just don't have a good feeling that my next adjustment will work for me. It's expensive for me to ship and it will be my last chance to get good seat comfort.

I think I'll contact them in a few months after more riding and get them to help me understand why their seats are so good. What does the internals consist of? There must be a design patent that makes the seats work so well for others. They did say that most of the seats they make don't need adjustments. So I'm wondering what happen to my seat?

I'll post some pics later of my seat to see if anyone can spot anything. Since it's mostly internal set up , the outside probably doesn't show anything....

Thanks for the replies and picture!

 

[Uncle Phil]

The 'cross' spring is the secret sauce and it is patented. Jay and I talked quite a bit about seats when I was out there. The other key is that it is built to fit your anatomy - which obviously easier to do when they can see it in person. ;-) It does take some miles for the seat to get broken - at least it did in my case with my original build and my rebuild 200,000 miles and 16 years later. One thing they do on a ride in is they hold the front of the bike so they can get a true picture of your normal riding position. On a ride in they place the pad on the pan and you sit on it to determine where the pressure points are, if it needs to be raised or lowered, is the 'tilt' correct - stuff that is harder to do from pictures. Not trying to be a smart aleck, but I don't know how could they tell you what needs to be adjusted when it's your bottom and back that ain't happy. There's a good chance if your seat is not comfortable that there is some factor you need for comfort that they don't know about. I hope you can get sorted out because when it's right, there's nothing like a Russell. My last ride I sat in mine for 7 hours straight with no problem at all.

 

[SupraSabre]

I bought my first RDL when I was riding my V65 Sabre. It was a well used/abused one, but I was still able to ride over 1,200 mile weekend and get home with no TB. Since, I've had two built for me and bought a used one after a Lamb seat failed to make me happy.

The big thing is, even when your butt isn't happy with a RDL, try riding over a long period of time and see how your :butt1: does. They do make a difference when it comes to long rides.

 

[W0QNX]

There were pix on this site of a seat all opened up. Which I saved but can't find of course. The secret piece is no big deal but seems to work great. There is a piece of plywood with a spring and straps secured that give the seat it's shape and form.

I found this pix on the net.

 

[ST Gui]

I realize that being there would be ideal and would surely fix any issues that I have with my seat , but in reality, that's not going to happen.

Copy that. The only thing I could suggest is have somebody take copious pics from many angles of the seat empty and with you on it.

First with the bare seat. (The bike's not yours).
Then with you on the bike seated as the seat put you.
Then with you on the bike seated where you want to be.

Maybe add some distance measurement in bare/before/after modes. Combine it with a phone call or two/three. Too much information is seldom worse than too little.

You're stressed given the time and money your RDL has cost but being calm and polite (not that you ever aren't) may go a long way to getting your seat to fit like a glove. So to speak.

 

[Kevcules]

Thanks for the replies.....the picture of the seat looks interesting. When I asked for a picture of my seat being worked on , they didn't seem to eager to take one for me. Protecting their patent maybe....

I have been and will continue to be respectful to Russel. I realize that yelling and screaming won't help and there is no need. They are very easy to work with so far, I'm just getting a little frustrated that my first adjustment went south.
I'm really not sure what to tell them other than the way it feels when I'm riding. I don't really know for sure where I'm "supposed" to sit. But I want to be comfy where ever the seat makes me sit. I will definitely take as many photos as they want and as many emails and phone calls as it takes to make sure we're on the same page before I send it in again.

What I am hoping for and it is a long shot is that when my seat is at Russel , if another ST1300 "happens" to stop by for a "visit" or needs some work done, for them to put my seat on their bike and try it. Hopefully the rider will be a slight 175 pounder! I'm curious to see what someone else would feel riding with my seat as is..... I'll tell Russel that they can keep my seat for 4 months if they want. I can't drive the beast in the snow.....

Anyhow, I'll try to get as much riding time in this summer as I can, to hopefully give Russel a good explanation of what I'm feeling.

Thanks

 

[Bush]

I don't really know for sure where I'm "supposed" to sit.

What they want to know is where you normally sit on the stock seat, when going down the road. When the seat is finished, you should be in that same position, in relation to the bars and pegs, but your butt will sit relatively firmly in the pocket of the seat, cheeks and thighs supported by the wings. The idea is to have as much body weight spread out over as much seat surface area as possible.

Are you experiencing painful pressure points somewhere in your posterior? Do you have any problems with your back that could be affecting your sitting time?

A long shot indeed, on having someone that physically matches you identically, at Russell, when they are doing your seat. I doubt they would even entertain the idea. If this is any help, I'm a slight 170 pounder and I will try your seat, if you pay my airfare to get there!

 

[Kevcules]

What they want to know is where you normally sit on the stock seat, when going down the road. When the seat is finished, you should be in that same position, in relation to the bars and pegs, but your butt will sit relatively firmly in the pocket of the seat, cheeks and thighs supported by the wings. The idea is to have as much body weight spread out over as much seat surface area as possible.

Are you experiencing painful pressure points somewhere in your posterior? Do you have any problems with your back that could be affecting your sitting time?

A long shot indeed, on having someone that physically matches you identically, at Russell, when they are doing your seat. I doubt they would even entertain the idea. If this is any help, I'm a slight 170 pounder and I will try your seat, if you pay my airfare to get there!

Thanks for the reply Bush and the option to fly you out there to try out my seat! lol

Good explanation of how their seat should accommodate my behind. My biggest issue is not being planted in the pocket and the feeling of sliding forward constantly. I mostly squeeze my legs against the tank to stay back and hold my position. When i take one hand off the bars, i start to slide ahead. My arms basically keep me back on the seat, not a good feeling. I was even able to put the front of the seat in the mid position and the rear in the low which helped, but not ideal.
I don't think my back trouble is contributing to my butt comfort , I do know that when I received the seat the first time , it was much much better than the stock seat.
I'm confident in the ability of Russel to get me where I need to be, it's just the dialog needs to happen in detail before I ship it out again.

If Russel is Ok with holding my seat for 4 months, then at the end of that, do what they can to it, I'm OK with that. I'll discuss that with them.....If anyone within 20 lbs either way of my weight would try my seat I'm sure they would feel what I'm feeling. I know it's a long shot though....

Thanks

 

[Bush]

My arms basically keep me back on the seat, not a good feeling.

This indicates to me that your arms are not relaxed and slightly bent, as they should be. I think your seat fix is to get either Helibars or a set of risers to bring your reach back a bit. Also, I don't know how much adjustability there is with the 1300 saddle, but I would have the front up max and the rear down max to keep your butt in the pocket of the seat. This would affect your reach to the ground too though, by bringing the wings up higher, so you'd have to play with that. To overcome the wings interference with getting a foot down on my Russell, I slide forward out of the pocket when I want to get my left foot down at stops. I can flat foot the left when out of the pocket, but barely tippy toe on the left staying in.

From your pics, the seat certainly appears to have enough elevation at the front, as compared to the pocket, to keep you from moving forward, hence my observation that you may be leaning too far forward to fit into the pocket. Unless you like the Ricky Racer posture, as on a sport bike, in which case a Russell seat was not the best choice.

 

[Soontobeone]

Do you still have the pictures you took when you ordered your seat? If so, take some pictures with you on the RDL and see how they compare. As Bush stated, it appears that the seat is down at the front, i.e., the lowest setting. Try adjusting the saddle to the middle and high settings to see how they feel. As for the sliding, is your RDL vinyl or leather? I found that with a leather seat and textile gear that the tendency to slide forward was greater.

 

[sah48]

I am wondering if there has been a change (perhaps unknowing) in the way their seats are built? My first RDL was near perfect, holding me in place from day one, letting me ride for hours.
The second, supposedly built from the same photos and measurements, had me gripping the tank with my knees and pushing back with my arms to keep from sliding forward! After an adjustment at the factory it is much better but I would not say 100% perfect. Of course I have now complicated matters by losing 70+ pounds so it is a bit more solid than it needs to be .... but still far more comfy that stock.

 

[Kevcules]

The second, supposedly built from the same photos and measurements, had me gripping the tank with my knees and pushing back with my arms to keep from sliding forward! After an adjustment at the factory it is much better but I would not say 100% perfect.

Sah48.....that's exactly what I'm experiencing with my set up. Do you know what they did for an "adjustment"? I've read that others had similar issues and after an adjustment , much better. I wasn't so lucky yet.

I still have the original pictures along with the last ones that I sent with my seat. I'll see if I can see something different with them.I want to help Russel help me get fitted properly, its not going to easy since I'm so far away.
I have the vinyl seat covering and it is quite easy to slide on but if I was planted in the pocket like I should be, it would take a lot to slide forward I'm thinking.

I already have heli bar risers. Luckily i do to, as i'm reaching to far for the handlebars now. Definitely more reaching after the adjustment.
I've tried raising and lowering the seat with no real change. I even tried the front in the mid and the rear in the low . That helped a little, but still not planted in the pocket.
I also have to slide ahead when coming to a stop. I can't flat foot in the mid position even way ahead on the seat so I leave it in the low position. The wings do keep you higher for sure, the left side wing still has the higher than the right side feeling. I'm not liking this seat with how much I paid for it. But there is one more chance to get comfort.
The reason I bought this bike beside liking the looks is that I was able to sit mostly upright. The opposite of a racer. I find I was slightly forward of upright on the maiden test drive. Perfect for my sore back.Now with the latest change , I am forced to reach farther for my bars am leaning forward more than I want. I'll tell them I need to be moved forward for sure. The builder did say that he probably shaved more off the rear than he should have . Funny thing is , I wasn't aware that my sitting position was going to change on the first adjustment.

 

[Soontobeone]

Sah48.....that's exactly what I'm experiencing with my set up. Do you know what they did for an "adjustment"? I've read that others had similar issues and after an adjustment , much better. I wasn't so lucky yet.

I still have the original pictures along with the last ones that I sent with my seat. I'll see if I can see something different with them.I want to help Russel help me get fitted properly, its not going to easy since I'm so far away.
I have the vinyl seat covering and it is quite easy to slide on but if I was planted in the pocket like I should be, it would take a lot to slide forward I'm thinking.

I already have heli bar risers. Luckily i do to, as i'm reaching to far for the handlebars now. Definitely more reaching after the adjustment.
I've tried raising and lowering the seat with no real change. I even tried the front in the mid and the rear in the low . That helped a little, but still not planted in the pocket.
I also have to slide ahead when coming to a stop. I can't flat foot in the mid position even way ahead on the seat so I leave it in the low position. The wings do keep you higher for sure, the left side wing still has the higher than the right side feeling. I'm not liking this seat with how much I paid for it. But there is one more chance to get comfort.
The reason I bought this bike beside liking the looks is that I was able to sit mostly upright. The opposite of a racer. I find I was slightly forward of upright on the maiden test drive. Perfect for my sore back.Now with the latest change , I am forced to reach farther for my bars am leaning forward more than I want. I'll tell them I need to be moved forward for sure. The builder did say that he probably shaved more off the rear than he should have . Funny thing is , I wasn't aware that my sitting position was going to change on the first adjustment.

Since you are reaching further to the bars than before, that needs to be addressed. Your builder did take too much out of the rear. Putting some more "cushion" in the rear would move you further forward, reducing your reach and putting closer to the original seating position. You should not have to be reaching for the bar any differently than before you sent the seat in. I know they can and have removed material around the wings to make it easier to get your feet down. How much support that may remove I have no idea. They do mention this on their website. On my RDL, the reach did not change. I was a happy camper right out of the box. I was absolutely surprised that they could do that with just pictures. I'm truly sorry you're having so much difficulty.

I don't know how tall you are; I'm 5'8". I have a relatively short inseam. I have never been able to "flat foot" my ST, even with the stock seat. My riding boots add about 1/2" to my leg length. I got accustomed to using the balls of my feet, or leaning on one side for "a flat footed" stance. So, transitioning to my RDL wasn't too difficult. Yes, I had to learn to slide forward out of the seating pocket when coming to a stop. But, becoming unstable has not been a problem when stopped. It is new and different, but has become second nature.

When I read their warranty coverage, you have more than two adjustments available. Under their warranty, you must allow them at least twice to adjust the seat to get it "right" for you, before you can claim a refund.

 

[SMSW]

I'd suggest NOT telling them to keep your seat over the winter. Every time I tell a vendor there is no hurry, my project gets shuttled to the back and it ends up taking a lot longer than estimated. Let them deal with you like any other customer and get the seat back to you asap. If you can't ride, and want to preserve remaining warranty, tell them that when you get the seat in a phone call.

 

[BamaRider]

FWIW, they will cover backrests, etc. with the same material and style as the seat. On the ST1100 one piece seat, you can get the pillion 'Russellized' or left standard. In my recent ride in, I had them recover 4 passenger backrests and two driver backrests to match the two RDL saddles I was getting. They did a beautiful job on all items.

Can't hide money.

 

[SMSW]

From what you have said (Kevin) and sah48's similar experience, it sounds like RDL has a few people making these seats, some are better than others, and that they occasionally miss the mark. Good luck getting this fixed.

 

[Uncle Phil]

Can't hide money.

Says the man with a brand new house and 4 motorcycles newer than mine and only works part time ...