ST1100 ABS info

[paulcb]

I'm in the market for an ST1100 and looking for a write-up (or comments) on the ABS/TCS system, i.e. which year models was it offered, components added, ABS without TCS, TCS without ABS, things to look for when buying, general ABS/TCS description, reliability, etc.

I would like to get one with ABS and/or TCS but don't want to purchase a headache. Any relevant links and/or comments would really be appreciated.

Thank you,
Paul

PS - If summarized and written well, I think this type of info would make a good Sticky.

 

[sofawizard]

hi paul I own the abs tcs cbs model and have had the normal issues common to the st ridden in a salty environment I see your in texas so shouldn't find any issues with corrosion found here in the UK the brakes on the abs are far superior to no abs that said the later non abs had a redesign so im told and may be quite good the abs is no light weight tho so consider if you would need the extra

 

[paulcb]

hi paul I own the abs tcs cbs model and have had the normal issues common to the st ridden in a salty environment I see your in texas so shouldn't find any issues with corrosion found here in the UK the brakes on the abs are far superior to no abs that said the later non abs had a redesign so im told and may be quite good the abs is no light weight tho so consider if you would need the extra

Thanks Andy. What year is your ST1100?

 

[dwalby]

I own the non-ABS model, but I think I can give a little info to help. The ABS II models have larger brakes than the non-ABS models. The system also is linked, so that when you hit the front brake you get brakes applied at both wheels, and the same with the rear pedal. I think in the front they are 6 piston units where 4 operate from the front brake, and 2 from the rear brake. Similar kind of thing on the back, but I think its a 4 piston instead of 6 like up front.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think the earlier ABS models had the same brakes as the non-ABS units, they just had ABS in addition. Not sure if those had the linked system or not, I suspect they didn't, but do a search on that to be sure.

I've ridden the ABS II model and can say that it definitely had more stopping power than the non-ABS units of the same vintage. If you get really good at applying the front and rear at the same time, you might approach the stopping power of the ABS II bikes on a non-ABS bike, but its not likely you'll do any better. Some people don't like the linked aspect, but for sheer stopping power the ABS II models are the way to go.

 

[Slydynbye]

I have a 98 ABS have had it for a few years and wouldn't hesitate to buy one again. If I lost mine I'd get another.
I'm sure the ABS has saved me and can recall at least once when the TCS kicked in to save me as well.

The brakes are proportional Brake lever gives more front brake than rear and brings the rear in in 3 stages which is activated by the Piston on the front. Pedal gives more Rear than front. So you do have control of Front vs Back brake.

As long as I take care of the sensors ie. dirt dust and water they seem to be very reliable but if one fails it can get spendy.
I still would recommend it to anybody.

By the Way this isn't mine but looks like a fine specimen.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/mcy/3854663982.html

 

[ST1100Y]

The ABS/TCS (also referred as ABS-I) was introduced in '92 and has no liked brakes; like all non-ABS models it has a 3" front rim with an 110/80 front tire. The ABS-II/CBS model was introduced in '95/'96, besides thicker fork tubes it comes with a 3,5" front rim with a 120/70 tire on it, which asks for a bit more steering input for leaning it over and gives a slightly indirect front feedback (compared to the models with the 110/80 tire); IIRC the front rotors have the same diameter, due to the wider rim the gap is smaller, so they just appear to be larger (can someone with a tape measure confirm?). The debate of 'more stopping power' is however more a religions one ;-) Under controlled conditions (like during a motorcycle safety training) the non-ABS bike will actually stop 2~3 yards earlier... so the advantage is purely the presents of an ABS system: no need to think or consider, just hammer on them brakes now, and let the machinery do the rest, whilst during unfavorable conditions the non-ABS rider has to operate his brakes with a bit more consideration, thus might loose valuable time/distance, wasting applicable brake power over the fear of a lockup. IMHO is the weight difference negligible, the CBS plumbing requires a little more efforts while bleeding/replacing the brake fluid, parts like the PCV linkage require a little care and if the bike wasn't operated in harsh winter conditions, the modulators should give no trouble.

 

[dwalby]

The debate of 'more stopping power' is however more a religions one ;-) Under controlled conditions (like during a motorcycle safety training) the non-ABS bike will actually stop 2~3 yards earlier... so the advantage is purely the presents of an ABS system:

Hey Martin, given the 6 piston front calipers and their larger surface brake pads, that sounds hard to believe. Did you observe this yourself?

 

[Ron]

The ABS II is on '96-'02 ST1100. '96 and later ABS bikes also have TCS (traction control), and LBS (linked brakes). The ABS works seamlessly and very inconspicuously. The ABS bike have better braking due to the components not the ABS. The superior stopping distance mention would be done by a very capable rider that doesn't panic for even an instant (60 mph = 88 feet per sec).

 

[Bigmak96]

Hey Martin, given the 6 piston front calipers and their larger surface brake pads, that sounds hard to believe. Did you observe this yourself?

I respectfully disagree too. I noticed a big improvement both in feel and power when I changed to the ABSII bike.

 

[ST1100Y]

Hey Martin, given the 6 piston front calipers and their larger surface brake pads, that sounds hard to believe. Did you observe this yourself?

We'd actually performed it during MSL a couple of years ago; everyone was curious, the instructors as much as ourselves. To balance the odds we then also swapped the bikes, so then my friend on my non-ABS and me on his ABS-II/CBS... bummer, same result, it suddenly took me (marginally) longer to full stop from 80kph/50mph on the ABS-II then my friend on my non-ABS (we did 5 runs each). Controlled conditions, always performing max possible braking (the non ABS with mewling tires (rarely reproducible out in the real world...), the ABS-II well in its control range (feels weird when lever and pedal start to pulse...), dry, abrasive tarmac, no traffic, etc...
At the first meters both decelerate rather identically, on the last few meters where the ABS kicks in the non-ABS gets the advantage ... still, the experiment gave a marginal difference, those 1~3 meters will not be there in a real traffic situation... the instructors however saw their expectations confirmed, as its the very same with cars: on dry road nearly/partly locked tires (non ABS) are converting the most energy (heat, abrasion) thus providing the shortest technically possible stopping distance, vs an active ABS 'looses' a bit due the lower friction between tires and road...
Don't try that at home/on open roads, and keep in mind that also on an ABS motorcycle the wheels can (and will!) lock up on the very last ~1 meter/~3 feet before full stop... (the wheels rotate too slow for ACU there to detect differences...) we observed that more then once, a friend of mine went down heavily with his ST1300 during brake training at an MSL, the front locked up, the steering tilted to the right and down on the deck he was, nasty (suffered a bad knee injury there)... practice a lot (preferable during professionally guided training lessons) and condition yourself to slightly release the braking pressure before the vehicle comes to an halt... ABS is an excellent helper, but its not foolproof...

 

[Bigmak96]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I guess I just feel more confident with the ABS knowing I will not skid in a panic situation. At least not till slowed down as you said. The confidence has allowed me to push the brakes harder without the fear of locking, and that has been good for me. I like the ABS over the non, but that's just my experience.

 

[Basic]

ABS/TCS should be favoured. I don't have it and survived a situation where I would have felt a lot more comfortable having it.
That being said; The ABS/TCS comes with a price tag. Not only when aquiring a second hand bike, but also regarding maintenance costs when the bike comes to age. Repairing ABS problems can be costly.

I also wonder if someone with the ABS would devellop a somewhat wilder driving style, knowing he has the "safety" feature, whilst someone knowing he hasn't got it might be a bit more careful.
On wet roads, I keep my distance without ABS, knowing most others have it.

Regards, Rob

 

[ST1100Y]

The confidence has allowed me to push the brakes harder without the fear of locking

And that's exactly what its supposed to... while a non-ABS rider has to find/feel is 'pressure point' and sense the avail friction of his tires, the one on the ABS motorcycle can simply hammer on his brake levers without any thought when facing a panic situation... with exceptions of course, another acquaintance faced the typical 'bra with cell phone glued to her head' ignoring a yield sign, had to nail his brakes to avoid the T-bone and WHAM! hit the deck at the instant... the priority road he was on is also used by a tram, and he approached/crossed the darn tracks in a too flat angle... same with sewer/manhole covers, road lines/pedestrian X-ings, tar snakes, gravel/diesel/fertilizer spills, wet leaves, etc... also with ABS the road surface is still the closest, immediate hazard...

 

[ST1100Y]

I also wonder if someone with the ABS would devellop a somewhat wilder driving style, knowing he has the "safety" feature, whilst someone knowing he hasn't got it might be a bit more careful.

Agree wholeheartly! :-D (guess why I prefer my non-ABS... their a number of reasons, but my own dumb consciousness is one of them ;-) )

I actually observed it during group runs, the guys with ABS brake like 30~50 yards later, and way harder, more aggressive before a turn/hairpin, as I with my old fashioned standard model, who works his brakes more in advance, but very soft and analogue (which is also more comfy for the pillion BTW) to keep 'upsetting the suspension' as low as possible... hence in the turn itself I'm quicker LOL! And with a CBS I cannot make as much use of the rear brake for control while in a turn (trail-brake??), as with my fully independent non-ABS brakes. The wider front tire on the ABS-II/CBS models gives a less precise steering feedback, feels less agile in turns and requires more steering input/force to lean the mount over. And last but not least am I not a fan of the (for me) 'spongy' pressure point on an ABS bike; on the small plumbing of my plain standard brakes, the pressure point is fully solid, feels like squeezing a piece of hard rubber, providing a direct connection to the tire's contact patch...

 

[paulcb]

Thanks for all the info guys. I would like to have ABS but ride it like I don't. Never had one with it so shouldn't be a problem.

 

[jim'll break it]

I have a 98 ABS have had it for a few years and wouldn't hesitate to buy one again. If I lost mine I'd get another.
I'm sure the ABS has saved me and can recall at least once when the TCS kicked in to save me as well.

The brakes are proportional Brake lever gives more front brake than rear and brings the rear in in 3 stages which is activated by the Piston on the front. Pedal gives more Rear than front. So you do have control of Front vs Back brake.

As long as I take care of the sensors ie. dirt dust and water they seem to be very reliable but if one fails it can get spendy.
I still would recommend it to anybody.

By the Way this isn't mine but looks like a fine specimen.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/mcy/3854663982.html

I have replaced the rear sensor on mine with one of these.http://www.onlinecomponents.com/honeywell-1gt101dc.html?p=11914888

It wont fit the standard brackets but as mine broke off in an attempt to remove the old one i had to make a new bracket anyway

 

[broc11]

I notice in the recent hot weather we had here when I wasn't riding with full gear on,(stupid I know) I rode the bike a lot more carefully, I think the same applies to abs.
It can make you over confident in the braking dept,my vfr 800 doesn't have abs and I am a lot more carefull on it if the road is wet.