Switched to Tapered steering head bearings, have problems now..ideas?

FireAndIce

Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Messages
38
Location
california
Bike
04 st1300
Hey everyone.
So last year I switched out the ball bearings in the steering head to tapered rollers. Seemed like a good idea at the time. It's been "ok" after the change...However!....
I just put a new set of tires on, and now I have a terrible weave above 75 mph. It's not just dirty air, it's fairly constant. Gets worse as you go faster. I thought it might be the bearings again as I have a definite clunking up near the handle bars when going over bumps.(not the break pads)
So I retorqued the bearings. Put 10lbs on them which might be too much considering they are tapered. But there is no binding and no low speed issues. Still she weaves and still she clunks over bumps. I am considering returning to Honda oem ball bearings. Any thoughts or ideas? Is there too much preload on the bearings? not enough? I'm confused. The last thing I am going to try is to put on the front wheel again carefully as according to shop manual. but I know that wont solve the clunking at the top of the triple tree. thank you
 
I have a clunking too, around the triple tree area, but it's in the fairing area, not related to the steering column.

Are you sure you followed the procedure to torque up the front wheel? Basically:
* Slide axle in place, place nut on
* Tighten left pinch bolts to spec
* Tighten axle nut to spec
* Tighten right pinch bolts to spec
* Loosing left pinch bolts
* Push down on handlebars 2-3-4 times
* Tighten left pinch bolts to spec.
 
Some thoughts...
I get the feeling you may be trying to diagnose a couple of different variables here.
First, correct the tension on your steering head bearings since you know it's probably off. Bearings that are too tight will cause the bike to wander terribly. I know because I did that by accident with my old Concours and had to correct it immediately because it wouldn't go straight anymore and felt downright dangerous.
Second, regarding the noise, you introduced a new tire into the equation. How many things near the fairing may have been bumped during the replacement.
Also, regarding the high speed weave, if you have a top box, take it off during your diagnosis.
Good luck!
 
I agree that the weaving can be caused by too much preload on the bearings. As far as the cluncking goes, check the slide pins for the brake calipers. If they are dry this can cause the cluncking. This is different the the pads themselve clunking.
 
I installed the tapered bearings on 4 bikes in the last year and one thing that I have found with all 4, 2 70's SOHC CB750s and 2 ST1100's is getting the bottom bearing race to fully seat.

It is difficult to tell if they fully seat because they are deep into the bottom of the neck. Over torqueing the bearings will not seat the races. They must be fully pressed in. So what I have seem happen is that as you ride the constant banging seats the race and the a clunk develops. This does not take much a couple of thousandth of an inch in movement will cause the clunk. This will continue to happen after each torque of the stem until the race is fully seated. This is not the proper way to seat the races.

I have finally gotten to the point where I freeze the races and heat the neck to a couple hundred degrees with out scorching the paint and then pressing in. The bottom is hard the top is easy. I build a small bearing press to squeeze the races in place. I did this with some ready bolt and some heavy washers welded together and machined to fit the od of the race.

The weaving can be cause from over torqueing as mentioned above, but I just experienced this with a new set of BT30's and it took 500 miles for this to go away. It was almost like they needed to go through a break in period. I now have nearly 7k miles on them in the last 6 weeks and things are great.
 
I have also installed the tapered head bearings and have had no problems with them, you must not have got them seated properly which is causing your problems. Sounds like you need to take it apart and make sure the bearings and races are seated properly.
 
Update,
went back to original st honda roller bearings with correct torque. She is smooth and no clunking. what a difference!!!
 
I know it is a non-issue now but where did you buy the bearings?
 
FireAndIce said:
Update,
went back to original st honda roller bearings with correct torque. She is smooth and no clunking. what a difference!!!
Click to expand...

Yup, I found the tapered bearings were too fussy to to set and maintain the correct preload when I fitted them to my ST1100. More than finger tight would create a weave. The sweet spot was super narrow between the weave and the clunk. The more I've messed with these tapered head bearings the more I think Honda knew what they were doing fitting the ball type bearings, at least with respect to the ST series. When I replaced the head bearings in my 1300 I went with the OEM balls. No issues.
 
wjbertrand said:
Yup, I found the tapered bearings were too fussy to to set and maintain the correct preload when I fitted them to my ST1100. More than finger tight would create a weave. The sweet spot was super narrow between the weave and the clunk. The more I've messed with these tapered head bearings the more I think Honda knew what they were doing fitting the ball type bearings, at least with respect to the ST series. When I replaced the head bearings in my 1300 I went with the OEM balls. No issues.
Click to expand...
I just made absolutely sure that the races were seated all the way in when installing my tapered bearings, preloaded to 28 ft/lbs, backed off to zero and re-set the preload to 31 INCH/lbs. No issues in about 5k miles.
 
No issues with tapered rollers in 70,000 miles.
 
Ron said:
I know it is a non-issue now but where did you buy the bearings?
Click to expand...
Tapered were aftermarket from a local shop. Balls were Honda from dealer. The balls take a hell of a lot of torque compared to the finicky tapered. Yep. Honda nailed it.
 
When I was still riding my Honda VTX1300 before I switched/upgraded to my ST1300, I had a bad front end wobble the VTX's were infamous for. I switched to the All balls tapered bearings at a tech day with many other VTXers. I was advised by all there (they all had the upgrade) to torque the new bearings to 20 to 25 foot pounds. I did this, and never had a wobble again. The bike steered great, went straight with no hands, and could be piloted hands free by leaning back and forth with my upper body. 10 pounds does not sound like enough torque, try tightening them up a bit. The tapered bearings are a much better product, assuming you do not have another issue, it sounds like they are too loose. The Tapered bearings have much more surface area than the ball bearings, and will distribute the load and torque accordingly. After I did mine, I put 30,000 more miles on my VTX, she steered like a dream the whole time.
 
I have replaced several sets of ball bearings with rollers over the years. Mostly they work fine. I like the fact that there is more contact area. It makes sense that .they are lower stress therefore lower wear than balls.
BUT....I have gotten several sets that came with races that would not not fit into the stem. The ones that wouldn't fit at all were easy. One set had race id's that were just a tad too large. That would have permitted a loose assembly and possible wandering had I not felt the play.
Take your time, be cautious/suspicious, and play with things as your assembly work progresses.
 
I have fitted All Balls tapered rollers to the steering heads of my RF900, VRF800, VTR1000 and now ST1100, each time replacing a notched ball bearing. I've had great, consistent results every time, once I figured out how to set the bearing tension. I agree that too tight is a bad idea, that introduces enough friction that you end up over-steering and unable to make the usual minute, smooth corrections needed for steady steering. To diagnose if that is your problem, try taking your hands off the bars when the front end is twitching. If the twitching stops, then the bearing is too tight but might only need a tiny amount of change. Purists will hate me, but I just undo the upper steering nut and then use a drift to move the bearing nuts a little at a time.
 
... but I just undo the upper steering nut and then use a drift to move the bearing nuts a little at a time.
Click to expand...

If it works for you, go for it.

I thought the installation on my 1100 was a piece of cake. Took about a minute to tighten and adjust. Got it right the first time. I've install tons of tapered bearings over the years..
 
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