Truth.
Technically advanced Hearing protection
- Thread starter ST-Traveler
- Start date
ST Gui
240Robert
The OP hasn't stated why he wants earplugs. Yes we know he's interested in hearing protection but we don't know from what exactly.
The amount of hearing protection needed depends on noise level of the environment in which they'll be used and the length of time of exposure. 26dB to 28dB noise reduction can be perfectly adequate to protect hearing depending on those two factors – and fit – because perception of sound is logarithmic. Not every noisy environment needs 33dB of noise protection.
If I had to spend time in a high-level noise environment I'd want greater protection.
I've never used electronics Mickeys but when I used to spend a lot of time at ranges – indoors and out – I used foam earplugs under passive Mickeys. Mickeys being the large over the ear muffs that most of us have used for years.
Given he's asked here and not at some industrial factory or firearms type site maybe it's just about when riding. Excessive hearing protections is a choice. Nothing wrong with that. My experience is riding bikes as long as I have without any hearing protection or excessively loud exhaust is that 26-28db can be perfectly adequate.
Wind noise from helmets and engine whine at maybe 65mph+ are why I like hearing protection. My experience is that riding without a helmet isn't as noisy are riding with one. But the tradeoffs...
Another consideration is being able to hear conversational voice levels with ear plugs in place. Say for instance at a traffic stop in a state where wearing earplugs may merit an award.
Only for riding I've used:
I've never tried them "uncapped" because they then didn't attenuate enough for the annoyance of wearing them. The caps are a little fiddly anyway.
Three different sets of molded earplugs didn't work well for me. Memory foam is the only style that I can live with for long periods of time. The triple-flange silicone tips popular on higher-end earbuds annoy me no end and almost immediately.
Regardless of any rating of any earplugs if they don't fit properly you're almost guaranteed a lesser level of noise protection.
OP
OP
ST-Traveler
Site Supporter
Yes, I was asking about this particular brand of hearing protection or something very similar.
I normally wear foam earplugs anytime riding. I have moderate hearing loss that requires hearing aides for day to day communication.
So my comm system pretty much has to be at full volume just to hear over the foam earplugs I currently wear.
The reason I inquired about these is because they are designed for "motorcycle riders" and yet allow easier listening to your comm system, music and your GPS turn by turn directions without turning your helmet communicator to full volume due to foam earplugs.
I am looking for a balance between decent wind noise reduction and yet still have clarity with the comm systems.
I do appreciate everyone's input as all good information.
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OP
OP
ST-Traveler
Site Supporter
these are actually highly rated on some youtube channels I watched. Provides a balance of wind noise reduction and clarity with the comm systems.Your link doesn’t work for me but I bought the ones pictured below and have been very happy with them. They come with their own little pouch that I attached to the bike keys so when I ride there they are. Easier to insert than the foam plugs and I have never had to ask Cherie to help remove one.
Although only listing 20 dB.
ST Gui
240Robert
With an open port the attenuation would certainly be less. Still 20dB should be significant given the environment you'd be in. The only way to increase the S/N would be IEC 'buds that seal well or the previous mention of 'buds in a custom mold (if that works well for you.
Helmet speakers work best when close to the ear. If close enough I can see how the open port would practically funnel speaker audio into the helmet. That should increase intelligibility while lowering the SPL you'd have with no earplugs.
On a different note:
Mellow had/has some wired IEC 'buds that can be plugged into a communicator jack (if it has one) and use the ambient sound button (if it has one) so you can hear "I clocked you at 60 in a 35. Sign here press hard 3 copies" or "put these on. Get in the back of the car. Watch your head" clearly.
This is what I use, 30 db
For small ear canals. Other plugs hurt after a few days on the road. These are great.
Box of 200 individually wrapped pairs. Too large a box for me and I sold off 2 lots of 50 pair at cost to others.
For small ear canals. Other plugs hurt after a few days on the road. These are great.
Box of 200 individually wrapped pairs. Too large a box for me and I sold off 2 lots of 50 pair at cost to others.
Mine last a day or a day and a half on the road, depends on how often I pull and reinsert them. At about 25 cents a pair I don't fuss with them.
My efficacy test is to lightly tap face just in front of ear. A certain dull or muted thud tells me the plugs are in correctly.
Andrew Shadow
Site Supporter
I like the Howard Leight foam ear plugs as well. I use the LL-1 Laser Lite. I think that they have an NRR of 32. I keep using them over, and over, and over, for days on end. I learned a long time ago that they will let me know when they need to be replaced. They eventually get to a state where they feel and act more like a sponge than closed cell foam. Any time prior to getting to that point they keep working just as well as a new pair so I keep re-using them. Once they they do get to that point after rolling them between your fingers they no longer retain their compressed state long enough for them to be easily inserted. This is what lets me know that it is time for a new pair.
Yeah, right... on sites we unworthy plebs use Peltor hearing protection ear-muffs... I've one packed in the container with almost every heavy power tool I own... a set even swings on the tool-wall of my bike-shed, in case I break out the angle-grinder or such...
I even have a hard-hat with a set clipped on the rim that I can swivel back, or drop over my ears...
Foam thingies are just not for frequent repeated insertion & removal...
Dirty, or cold, or wet fingers, a quick stop for refueling, having to inquire locals about an accommodation nearby, etc...
Drop one on the ground you'll have to dispose it... try to wash them and find them still dripping wet the next morning... eww...
Yeah, they're cheap and I have do a plastic container holding a dozen (6 pairs), but I just got sick of fumbling with them...
FWIW, YMMV, M2C...
ST Gui
240Robert
This.
Anatomy can affect fit and insertion for best fit and may take time and experimentation to find what works for the individual. After rolling into the thin cylinder shape I reach left hand over my head and pull my right ear upwards to straighten out that ear canal. Insert easily with right hand. My left ear requires a tug outwards rather than upwards to straighten out the canal. I also use Laser Lites.
Andrew Shadow
Site Supporter
Not in my experience. As I wrote earlier, I have no problems using each foam ear plug over and over multiple times and have done so for a couple of decades.
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I developed tinnitus in my right ear a few years back. I was using these ear plugs at the time. Though I'm sure they were doing their job, I don't think they were up to the task of attenuating 130+db for extended periods over a the course of a couple years. ZX14 with Brocks Short exhaust, countless drag passed and extended cruises over 120mph. I actually stopped riding because of it. But now I'm back in the saddle with this ST1300 I recently acquired and I do not want to damage my hearing any further. Though much quieter, especially if I tuck below the tall shield, I plan on wearing earplugs. I probably never inserted those foam ones properly as they were alway uncomfortable to me. So I'm considering these for the wife and I. I plan on doing some extended traveling at much more sane speeds.
"Tinnitus. Either it drives you crazy or you get used to it."
-Bill Shatner
"Tinnitus. Either it drives you crazy or you get used to it."
-Bill Shatner
The NRR is pretty simple. You simply subtract the NRR from the ambient noise registered on a sound meter (or phone with the appropriate app). Bear in mind the reading from said meter, unless taken at your ear, is only approximate. For your exposure to 130+db noise, knock off the advertised 28 db, bearing in mind that this number is an advertisement and might vary, and it will depend on individual fitment. Exposing yourself to 100 db can cause permanent damage in as little as 2 hours or as much as 8 hours (depends on the table you use, frequency of sound, individual, etc. etc. etc.). Tinnitus is, of course, indicative of hearing damage. Hearing loss is permanent*...there is no healing or going back to what you heard before the damage.
*Hearing aids are a solution but the quality of sound perception will vary with the individual. Cochlear implants are another story entirely. They are best for those with total loss (deafness). I had one ENT doc sell the implants as fabulous, and would yield 'up to 80% comprehension'. When I beat her up (with questions) she admitted that was a rough maximum dependent on a lot of factors and there were no guarantees. Another ENT who specialized in implants told me that if you are deaf, the implants are amazing and incredible, but for me, with 30% comprehension in my bad ear and upwards of 80 in my good ear, they would sound robotic at best. He also said hearing music with the implants would not come close to hearing with OEM equipment. BTW, if after the implant, one decides to remove the electrode, it will destroy any hearing that was present before the operation. The implant's magnet (if you go that route) also creates a shadow on MRI's of the brain.
Perhaps I'm just a delicate flower, or perhaps the amount of attenuation I'm seeking is much greater, but of all the different ear plugs I've tried, I've found most of them to be total junk.
Back in t'day, I was using Doc's Pro Plugs. These are pretty comfortable, but also not super effective at blocking sound despite the hype. The Kraton rubber softens over time, and then goes super comfortable before going super gungy and falling apart. I wore them a lot on my first few tours with my Pan. But my most recent pair (that I got last year) are stiffer and really not comfortable at all. After my first pair of Pro Plugs gave up the ghost, I started using Alpine MusicSafe ear plugs with the highest rated filters. The filters are long and thin, and the ear plugs are the usual two-cup, cone shaped style. I found I had to fairly jam them in to get them to block sound reasonably effectively. And then after a couple of hours my ears would start to hurt. But worth it for the basement rock gigs and Rush concerts.
So, I got mouldings taken and bought a pair of Ultimate Ear squidgy ear plugs. Now I knew what -30dB felt like! What a difference! I wore them on pretty much every motorbike ride for 15 years. In fact, the only reasons I stopped wearing them were that a) 15 years is probably too long to expect your ears to be the same shape, and I think mine weren't by then, and I was finding they started to hurt quite quickly; and b) I got the Cardo for my helmet and needed to, you know, hear stuff.
Given how many people seem to really rate Howard Leight foam plugs, I bought a variety pack that includes Laser Leights, and I tried most of them. I didn't find them any better at blocking sound than standard 3M Classic 28dB ear plugs, which also weren't very good. In fact, almost all the foam ones hurt my ears after an hour, sometimes less. So I tried Clear Ears, recommended by a colleague and apparently good for sleeping and swimming. They were really comfortable, but I didn't find them to be very good at blocking sound, and they had a tendency to get dislodged when I put my helmet on or took it off. I still ended up with the loud rustling-whooshing sound of air streaming past my helmet, and the throaty roar of Mr Remus's finest exhaust or the turbine whine of a Pan European.
By now you might be thinking I mustn't be inserting foam ear plugs correctly. I know how to roll foamies thin, and to pull my ears up or back, or up and back, to open up my ear canals, and to let the foam expand once in. But my ear canals are an odd shape: tall and narrow. They're also not the same left and right. That I know for sure because that's the shape of my Ultimate Ear ear plugs, which themselves were always tricky to put in fully. I also really don't like things pressing on my ears if I have ear plugs in, especially the actually-quite-firm Ultimates, so the bulge of the thin Cardo speakers won that argument.
So I bought a pair of Eggz, which are basically the same shape as the Alpines, but you get two sizes in the pack, and just the one set of filters. Well, I wanted to like the Eggz, because my bestie uses those and find they work really well for her, but tall and narrow ear canals simply don't get on well with the rather large diameter filters. So my ears still hurt after half an hour. But I persevere with them because they do block sound quite well if I jam them in. The rubber is slightly stiffer than the Alpines which are so soft they come with a special poker-inner to get them in properly.
By this point I was despairing and running out of options. What I needed was something squidgy and dense like the Ultimates, but softer and more malleable. What about wax or silicone ear plugs like for camping or hostels where your bunkmate is snoring like a train? Well, I bought a pack of Knoxzy silicone ear plugs and experimented over a few rides. I liked them a lot. So I did some rides on my Africa Twin with the loud exhaust and I liked them even more. Sure, you have to warm them a little, and find the right kind of shape, and squidge them in, and the increased air pressure hurts a little bit in the process, but they seal well and are completely compatible with my Cardo if I put my not-a-phone GPS on maximum volume. Apart from one day when I pillioned on bestie's little Royal Enfield on puttery wee roads, I used them for the whole of my 1500 mile tour. Each pair gradually picks up oil from my ears but they last quite a long time so the box will last me quite a while.
Back in t'day, I was using Doc's Pro Plugs. These are pretty comfortable, but also not super effective at blocking sound despite the hype. The Kraton rubber softens over time, and then goes super comfortable before going super gungy and falling apart. I wore them a lot on my first few tours with my Pan. But my most recent pair (that I got last year) are stiffer and really not comfortable at all. After my first pair of Pro Plugs gave up the ghost, I started using Alpine MusicSafe ear plugs with the highest rated filters. The filters are long and thin, and the ear plugs are the usual two-cup, cone shaped style. I found I had to fairly jam them in to get them to block sound reasonably effectively. And then after a couple of hours my ears would start to hurt. But worth it for the basement rock gigs and Rush concerts.
So, I got mouldings taken and bought a pair of Ultimate Ear squidgy ear plugs. Now I knew what -30dB felt like! What a difference! I wore them on pretty much every motorbike ride for 15 years. In fact, the only reasons I stopped wearing them were that a) 15 years is probably too long to expect your ears to be the same shape, and I think mine weren't by then, and I was finding they started to hurt quite quickly; and b) I got the Cardo for my helmet and needed to, you know, hear stuff.
Given how many people seem to really rate Howard Leight foam plugs, I bought a variety pack that includes Laser Leights, and I tried most of them. I didn't find them any better at blocking sound than standard 3M Classic 28dB ear plugs, which also weren't very good. In fact, almost all the foam ones hurt my ears after an hour, sometimes less. So I tried Clear Ears, recommended by a colleague and apparently good for sleeping and swimming. They were really comfortable, but I didn't find them to be very good at blocking sound, and they had a tendency to get dislodged when I put my helmet on or took it off. I still ended up with the loud rustling-whooshing sound of air streaming past my helmet, and the throaty roar of Mr Remus's finest exhaust or the turbine whine of a Pan European.
By now you might be thinking I mustn't be inserting foam ear plugs correctly. I know how to roll foamies thin, and to pull my ears up or back, or up and back, to open up my ear canals, and to let the foam expand once in. But my ear canals are an odd shape: tall and narrow. They're also not the same left and right. That I know for sure because that's the shape of my Ultimate Ear ear plugs, which themselves were always tricky to put in fully. I also really don't like things pressing on my ears if I have ear plugs in, especially the actually-quite-firm Ultimates, so the bulge of the thin Cardo speakers won that argument.
So I bought a pair of Eggz, which are basically the same shape as the Alpines, but you get two sizes in the pack, and just the one set of filters. Well, I wanted to like the Eggz, because my bestie uses those and find they work really well for her, but tall and narrow ear canals simply don't get on well with the rather large diameter filters. So my ears still hurt after half an hour. But I persevere with them because they do block sound quite well if I jam them in. The rubber is slightly stiffer than the Alpines which are so soft they come with a special poker-inner to get them in properly.
By this point I was despairing and running out of options. What I needed was something squidgy and dense like the Ultimates, but softer and more malleable. What about wax or silicone ear plugs like for camping or hostels where your bunkmate is snoring like a train? Well, I bought a pack of Knoxzy silicone ear plugs and experimented over a few rides. I liked them a lot. So I did some rides on my Africa Twin with the loud exhaust and I liked them even more. Sure, you have to warm them a little, and find the right kind of shape, and squidge them in, and the increased air pressure hurts a little bit in the process, but they seal well and are completely compatible with my Cardo if I put my not-a-phone GPS on maximum volume. Apart from one day when I pillioned on bestie's little Royal Enfield on puttery wee roads, I used them for the whole of my 1500 mile tour. Each pair gradually picks up oil from my ears but they last quite a long time so the box will last me quite a while.
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ST Gui
240Robert
My ear canals are two different sizes. I need a M for the Left and an XL for the Right. I've only seen one brand that has an XL size and I don't remember who/what. So sound leaks into the right ear. It was suggested I cut foam earplugs to make one large ear plug. Haven't given it a try yet.
Ain't that the truth. I've had tinnitus since the early '70s because of the one time I didn't wear hearing protection. It was and is bad. Then about three years ago I was listening to an audiobook with one 'bud in my ear. I don't remember why but I turned the volume up for some temporary problem with ambient noise. Then I nodded off for a few hours. Unlike the first time where the loss was to loud percussive sounds this time it was just a little too loud for a long period of time. So now in addition to the whine as whistle that I deal with there's a Middle Eastern bazaar going in one ear.
For a time when I was constantly around or making high volume laud percussive sound I wore both ear plugs and and Mickey Mouses over my ears.
Ain't that the truth. I've had tinnitus since the early '70s because of the one time I didn't wear hearing protection. It was and is bad. Then about three years ago I was listening to an audiobook with one 'bud in my ear. I don't remember why but I turned the volume up for some temporary problem with ambient noise. Then I nodded off for a few hours. Unlike the first time where the loss was to loud percussive sounds this time it was just a little too loud for a long period of time. So now in addition to the whine as whistle that I deal with there's a Middle Eastern bazaar going in one ear.
For a time when I was constantly around or making high volume laud percussive sound I wore both ear plugs and and Mickey Mouses over my ears.
Why do people wear earplugs when they're riding a motorcycle? That wouldn't even occur to me
mello dude
Half genius, half dumazz whackjob foole
What, cant hear you, say again... What, still cant hear you..One more time, Say again, what?..... oh never mind...
‐-----------------‐----‐-----------------------
Apology, but couldn't resist..
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SImilar to these available on our side.
They work well accoustically, but for me, dislodge too fast in city traffic with frequent headturns, or have to reseat them after a few hours on longer trips and when sealing, actually seal too well when going up and down passes, not giving a chance for the ear to equalize pressure and can be painful.
But thanks, had forgotten I had them. WIll take them as a backup for when my lipped silicon ones start hurting on my next trip!
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I was a tin basher in the '70s have played the drums for fifty years, get tested every year and get told every year when I go get retested that you're about the same since we started testing you in 2016
Can show you the cards if you like, but this an interesting thread that I never understood
when I asked a friend of mine that I've riden with for a few years he didn't seem concerned either, don't ask, never find out
[edit] I mean, don't you want to be as cognizant as possible; there's ___ going on around you, I mean I love areosmith but I'm not gonna listen to love on an elevator while someone's creeping around me... so you guy's are like... la la la la ? no wonder...
I hit a deer today, oh boy, the english army had just... a crowd of people... beam me up scotty
Can show you the cards if you like, but this an interesting thread that I never understood
when I asked a friend of mine that I've riden with for a few years he didn't seem concerned either, don't ask, never find out
[edit] I mean, don't you want to be as cognizant as possible; there's ___ going on around you, I mean I love areosmith but I'm not gonna listen to love on an elevator while someone's creeping around me... so you guy's are like... la la la la ? no wonder...
I hit a deer today, oh boy, the english army had just... a crowd of people... beam me up scotty
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