Test ride 2022 R1250RT and 2023 K1600 GT

OP
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Congrats on the new bike. Seems you're pretty close to me - I'm near Queensferry.
I live in Ruthin, and have spent the day playing between Wrexham/Llangollen/Corwen. Yesterday I ran down to Harlech and back, simply because the bike needs to do 600 miles before the service I've booked it in for. :headbang:

The pass over the tops coming down into Ysbty Ifan was fun with a porsche behind me yesterday.

Feel free to drop me a PM if you're planning on getting out and about, especially as the weather is getting better. If I'm going to the office, I'm coming from Ruthin up to Liverpool. So I know the area pretty well.
 

Hound

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Ah Ruthin.... my ex lived there and I used to travel on my CX500. Its rear suspension didn't like that sharp, steep double bend coming down through Llanbedr Dyffryn Clwyd. I went that way last November on my VFR1200X which took it in its stride.
 

Hound

Cave Canem
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Looking at your pictures I realized an advantage to driving on the left side of the road. More than a few times when I've stopped on the shoulder or side of a steeply crowned road the kickstand has left the bike nearly vertical (or worse), making dismounting without dropping the bike difficult. Lefties would simply have to lurch the bike upright from a steeper leaned position.
I've often wondered about the kickstand in countries that drive on the right. Do Harleys have the kickstand on the right? One expects Japanese bikes to have it on the left, as they drive on the left in Japan; you'd think by now they would have come up with a way of mounting it either side of the bike for different markets, especially since so many bikes now come without a centre stand.
 
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Anyone want to develop a light, compact hydraulic or screw adjusted side stand to deal with this?
Quick search:
 
OP
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Ah Ruthin.... my ex lived there and I used to travel on my CX500. Its rear suspension didn't like that sharp, steep double bend coming down through Llanbedr Dyffryn Clwyd. I went that way last November on my VFR1200X which took it in its stride.
I may have ridden up that bend years ago on an SV650S with a flat tyre that was only managing to hold 8psi. Fun times.
 
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I've often wondered about the kickstand in countries that drive on the right. Do Harleys have the kickstand on the right?
Every bike I've ever seen has had the kickstand on the left side - BUT...I'm not a kickstand man and have probably not eyeballed every one that I could have.... :rofl1: Somewhere I read about a bike that one can install a stand on either or both sides. Since this is my main hangout, it must have been here.

@Larry Fine, I've seen several of those. When I lowered my VStrom the kickstand was too long. So I read the reviews and some folks said the adjustable one's slipped or broke. One had high marks but was ridiculously expensive. I cut my stand down, removed a section and welded it together. Still too long, repeat. I enjoy welding - and I need the practice so I did not mind. What I would like is a stand that one can adjust by pushing a button on the handlebar. You don't know the bike will not stand up on that crowned road or sloped parking lot until you stop and deploy the kickstand.
 
OP
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@ad.hom so 4 months in. What say ye now? (I'm looking at a new K1600 or a new Wing)
4 months huh? Wow time flies. I bought it on a PCP that has a mileage limit per year... I should probably check that... oh. BMW have an app for that. So, the BMW Connected app reports that I've done 2262 miles, the next service is in 4625 miles, and the fuel tank is full. That's a nice touch sitting in my office while the bike is in the barn.

The headline really, I guess: absolutely no regrets buying the bike, it's yet to move without producing a smile on my mug.

That said, there has been a few "niggles" on the journey. These might be specific to the UK, they might not be, but they're worth sharing for those that might benefit from it.

The 600 mile service, that I booked in with BMW before I actually took the bike away from the showroom, is a damn expensive oil change. In truth, it's not JUST an oil change, they do a software update on the bike too. Before 600 miles the bike will not allow you to exceed 5k RPM. No warning messages, no popups, it just refuses. I took the bike in for its service, they offered me the choice of absolutely anything in the show room that I fancied as a curtsey vehicle - but for the hour and change, I refused. Instead, I pulled out my work laptop & headed for one of their free office suites to do some work and make use of the free coffee. Afterwards, the chap on the desk tried to charge me £230, until I asked him to check the records, because I had paid for a 3 year service plan. He verified, handed me the keys, and I left. That was my first clue about how disconnected BMW Corp are from themselves.

During that service, I'd mentioned to the chap on the desk that when using the quick shifter AND hard on the gas, between 3rd & 4th, there's a loud bang from the exhaust, almost like blow back happening... not really a problem, but definitely would scare the elderly into a heart attack while I'm overtaking them. The tech took it for a test ride and reported "unable to reproduce" - and funnily enough, I haven't seen it again. There is however now a lovely burble at idle as I'm gently braking towards a junction. So I reckon he fettled with the exhaust a little.

Randomly one day, I noticed that the cruise control refused to engage. Nothing else wrong with the bike, so meh... finished my ride, parked up... next ride it worked again. Presumed glitch, and spoiler alert, I was wrong.

Randomly another day, cruise control refused to engage. But this time the indicators had clearly reverted back to BMW defaults (ie, optional extra that hadn't been paid for), switch completely unresponsive. I also noticed that the horn and PASS switches had become less useful than your average ornament. OK, I thought to myself, this is a problem and it needs them to get it sorted.

Next time I fired it up, problem gone, so I didn't report it.

Then came the day I was headed over to visit my old man for a week, and I was taking the bike. Loaded everything up, headed out, everything working perfectly - right up until I got on to the M56 motorway... at which point, no cruise control / indicators / PASS / horn... and now, no Wunderwheel, so I can't access anything at all within the onboard computer. So, me being me, I continued the 400mile or so journey (UK highway code permits hand signals, even if most people would look at me daft for it, because a) they don't understand the hand signals and b) why the hell own a BMW and bother to indicate your intentions?). I arrived at the AirBnB and had 3 options (2 breakdown policies on the bike - one from BMW and one from my insurer) and the bike has the SOS button on it. So I called the 0800 BMW number and told them the problem, that I knew it would have to go to a dealership and they might as well just send someone to come pick it up on a flatbed.

So a guy in a transit van comes out, local recovery firm, not BMW. I immediately turned to him with a "I hope the back of that van is empty, because you won't be fixing this here." He says that no-one has told him what the problem is other than electrical, and have I checked the fuses? So I pull the seat off and gleefully reply "well, you've got 2 choices for fuses - the 40A starter fuse, or the 15A ECU fuse. There isn't any other fuses on this bike, because everything is fly-by-wire." He then grumbled about his office wasting his time, and called them to ask for the flatbed, which wouldn't arrive until the next day.

Me being me, I hit Google, and there's a very detailed thread on the BMW forums alleging what the problem might be (copper tracks embedded in plastic within the LH switchgear, and the side effect of leaving the bike exposed to sunlight in 30C or so temps causing thermal expansion, leading to cracks in the copper). BMW called me a few days later to say that the bike was fixed and ready to pick up.

So off I go to that BMW dealership (not my local one, of course). Really helpful young lass on the service desk responds to my "I'm here to collect the repaired K1600" with a "Oh, I don't know who you talked to yesterday, but no-one with that name works here, and I'm pretty sure they haven't actually fixed your bike." I choose to see the humour in life, so I laughed with a "well, I spoke to her, and she made the service chaps double check it was working again, and I definitely heard the horn working over the phone. So maybe have someone pull the bike out, hand me the key, and I'll see if it makes a horn-like noise or not?"

Turns out, they had fixed it, and she normally works on the cars, not the bikes (she couldn't tell the difference between the K16 GTL and the S1000RR that were next to each other outside). See my point on BMW Corp simply not talking to each other. So I asked the service guy that brought it out what they did to fix it, he claims "all the left of the bike is wired up under the left air intake, plug was loose there." (so, similar to the 25P on the left of the ST1300)

Touch wood, couple of hundred miles later, no issues.

Only other observation that might help a buyer, is that the stock rubber is rubbish. But since when did any manufacturer give good tyres on a brand new bike? It's free, so it'll stay until it's used and then I'll put something better on. When cold, and particularly when the floor is damp, you might as well be riding around on house bricks for all the information you get back from the stock rubber. But if you're expecting it, it's fine, and it gets better when they're warmed up, and no complaints at all when the floor is dry.

BMW Customer Service seems a little lacking, but if you're buying it outside of warranty and you're planning on throwing the spanners yourself... it has the same tupperware time issues as the ST1300, but other than that, shouldn't be too bad. If it's in warranty/PCP, spending on the 3 year service plan is likely going to save you money overall.

Even with all this, would I still make the same choice 4 months ago? :think1:

YES. The engine on the bike is worth it, my RoSPA tutor complains every time our route takes us from a 30mph zone into a NSL (60mph)... because he has to change down 2 gears just to try keeping up (Royal Enfield Conti 650).

The best thing I can think of to describe the K16, is "it simply does absolutely everything you ask of it, and replies 'yes sir, certainly sir, would sir like some more speed with that?'" Some say there's a high speed wobble, I haven't found it at triple digit speeds. Maybe it only happens on the Grand America variant (with the floorboards)? The GTLE is more of a sofa that someone converted into a sports bike and added some kitchen cupboards (the other day it was dark out when I opened the top box and that's the day I learnt that there's a light in there - and it works when the ignition is off).
 

Obo

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Thanks for that. Appreciate the honesty.

As for the wobble, from what I've read on their website BMW has crippled the Grand America's top speed to 100mph / 162 km/h
The K1600B (bagger) is limited to 200 km/h (180km/h with factory floorboards)
The K1600GTL just says "over 200 km/h"

There's a few videos online of folks saying they found this out the hard way when passing and the bike's ummph just fizzled unexpectedly.
Granted, those are all above the speed limits anywhere in North America, but if you want / need /expect that extra speed, not having it could be dangerous as well.
 

Obo

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Is that A GTL? Just curious because of the top case. And is that the only difference between the models (GT vs GTL)?
I didn't realy check the Grand America or the GT vs GTL, just between the bagger and GTL as I want a top case. I read the GTL also had full heated seats, electronic adj suspension, larger screen, a center stand, lower seat and some other items the bagger does not. Might just be a Canadian thing? I like the looks of the Grand America over the GTL, but the speed limiter of about 100mph is a deal breaker in my books.
 
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very nice new toy!

I like the looks but I have too many bikes still and not sure if I want to go back to beemers (been there, done that)

current stable is my 03 ST1300, 14 HD Ultra Limited, 18 Honda Goldwing DCT.

safe rides!
 
OP
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Is that A GTL? Just curious because of the top case. And is that the only difference between the models (GT vs GTL)?
I spec'd up the GTL Exclusive in the dealership, and it turns out that BMW guarantee that there will only ever be 10 bikes of the same specification as mine in Europe. Mine is number 3 of 10. They might not even build all 10 if there isn't sufficient orders.

The specs there, are a little - nit picky. For example, the GTL E should come with top box + arm rests, and as a consequence gets the under floor lighting kit. I didn't want the arm rests (because you can't fold them up out of the way), so I removed them... and the under floor lighting I don't care for, it's an additional extra cost to have it, but BMW Germany had already built one with it, so I accepted it. I've configured the under floor lighting so that it doesn't come on when I'm stopped at traffic lights etc, and will only come on after turning the ignition off. I'm still yet to find a use for it, but it was free...

The E also comes with a few different paint options, but a) they cost an arm & 3 legs, and b) I prefer the "wolf in sheeps clothing" approach.

Re your question: I took the GT for the test ride... it's the GTL minus top box. The B gets different shaped panniers and optionally a pillion backrest. The GA gets floorboards for comfort (which, honestly, I have DRL fog lights mounted to the engine crash bars, and I'm not opposed to adding floorboards...).

Obo was indeed correct, both the B and GA are rumoured to have ECU limited top speeds. The GTL E, I can confirm, does not have the rumoured limit (though I haven't taken it as high as the typical ~190mph EU limiter).

I didn't realy check the Grand America or the GT vs GTL, just between the bagger and GTL as I want a top case. I read the GTL also had full heated seats, electronic adj suspension, larger screen, a center stand, lower seat and some other items the bagger does not. Might just be a Canadian thing? I like the looks of the Grand America over the GTL, but the speed limiter of about 100mph is a deal breaker in my books.
My GTL E has heated seats (rider + pillion), ESA (electric adjusted suspension - and hit the gas hard, it will suck the front end down in the attempt to prevent wheelies)... the screen is bigger than the GT I took for the test ride (and honestly, is comparable to the stock ST13 screen). I don't know if the B comes without a center stand (I carry a laptop a lot, so the B wasn't an option)... though the dealership did tell me there's a soft bag that you can get and straps to the pillion backrest. In an unexpected get-off, my employer requires hard storage. Seat height? I'm honestly not sure if there's any difference.
 

Obo

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My GTL E has heated seats (rider + pillion), ESA (electric adjusted suspension - and hit the gas hard, it will suck the front end down in the attempt to prevent wheelies)... the screen is bigger than the GT I took for the test ride (and honestly, is comparable to the stock ST13 screen). I don't know if the B comes without a center stand (I carry a laptop a lot, so the B wasn't an option)... though the dealership did tell me there's a soft bag that you can get and straps to the pillion backrest. In an unexpected get-off, my employer requires hard storage. Seat height? I'm honestly not sure if there's any difference.
I'm sure the UK & CDN markets differ slightly. As for seat heights & top case heights, I was going by the website appearances. The top speed (limited) of each bike is posted on the site in the specifications section, hidden in plain sight.

1695681900516.png
 
OP
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I'm sure the UK & CDN markets differ slightly. As for seat heights & top case heights, I was going by the website appearances. The top speed (limited) of each bike is posted on the site in the specifications section, hidden in plain sight.
Yep... as I recall, the GA is a B with top box & floorboards... the GTL is the GT with top box.

From there, there's a number of product refinements one can make (the Configurator website is actually pretty good). I basically had this list for the sales rep:
  • I need a top box, and we don't have the GA, so I'm looking at the GTL. (Another sales guy tried to point out the soft bag you can buy for the B, but I rejected it)
  • I'm not interested in the carbon wheels or the special paint, so we can rule out Option 719.
  • However, I do want the engine crash bars. The fog lights are extra cost in addition to the crash bars (but you need the bars if you want the lights)... I got lucky and got the lights for free.
  • I'm happy to take a PCP, which likely gets BMW finance to give you more options to play with.
I signed the paperwork, a couple of days later he phoned me back with a "well, they don't normally do this, and I'm not sure why they have in this case, if I'm honest... but we looked at the stock, and you would be waiting for the bike in your configuration to come from Germany, and that takes about 12 weeks. But for some reason, BMW Finance have asked me to upgrade you to the Exclusive version, although I do have to tell you, it comes with underfloor lighting, which you didn't ask for, and it's £80 extra. We have that bike in a warehouse in the south of England, and it'd take about a week to get to us."

Me, knowing that was likely just a sneaky sales tactic to bump up the price, stated that under no terms would they bill me for things I hadn't asked for. He called me back after about 10mins with a "well, since you took out the service plan with us anyway, my boss has said we can give you the underfloor lighting for free."
 

amorley

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Loved my 2005 ST1300 but have no regrets when I bought my K1600GT in 2015. We have shared 135K miles riding to every state in the continental US and every province, except Nunavut, in Canada.
 
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As some will know, my ST1300 has been playing up, costing me an arm & 3 legs just to keep it on the road, so for a while I've been thinking of buying a new bike but been disappointed that Honda never made a newer version of the ST (the same disappointment many of us have). Since the 13 is over 20 years old, I fancied something new... and looking at the market, I chose to first look at the 1250 RT, with a view to looking at a GoldWing if the RT didn't work out.

So, a while back, I talked with the local BMW dealership - they didn't have a demo RT in at the time because they were refreshing their demo models and it hadn't arrived. But they agreed to let me take out one of the 2nd hand bikes from the showroom, with the condition that I didn't put "too many" miles on the clock and make them update the sale advert.

My immediate thought on the RT was "jesus the back end wallows around in Road mode, it's so soft it'll probably throw me off the damn bike when it's responding to bumps at speed" - I doubt it actually would have thrown me off, but still... Dynamic mode sorted that problem out. The model I took out had the engine bars and extra fog lights, but didn't have the adaptive cruise control. Initially, low speed control, riding around town etc... phenomenal machine. So I took it 16miles or so away into some twisty Welsh mountain roads. I grumbled to myself the whole way about issues with the bike, pulled over, had a bite to eat, had a word with myself and agreed that I should just ride the damn bike. Don't think about the purchase... does it put a smile on my face by the time I'm walking into the dealership?

Nope. No it didn't. My main gripes about it were the vibration through the bars at 70mph, and the lack of wind protection. So I told the sales guy exactly that - and that nothing was the fault of the bike, I've just been spoilt by the ST1300 engine and my aftermarket extended screen on the 13. Re the vibration - it's not horrible, unless you're comparing to the ST1300. There's simply no escaping the physics of the boxer engine - some will like it, some won't. Some will think it rides like a tractor, and I'd agree with them.

While I'm in the local Honda buying parts to keep the 13 running, I spy that they have a newer ST1300 2nd hand sitting in the showroom... I eyed it up, it had some farkles but no wind deflectors... and for a fleeting moment, I nearly rode away on it. But my wallet reminded me that in 5-10 years, I'd still have an ST1300 that was starting to have things go wrong with it, and parts would be even more unobtainable... no, not a solution.

A few weeks go by, and the dealership called me back with a "Hey, so, I know you tried the RT and didn't get along with it... I just wanted to let you know we've just got our demo bikes in.. we have the '23 models of both the RT and the K, if you want a test ride on either of those?" So I umm'd and err'd with him on the call, I knew I wouldn't like the '23 RT but hadn't really looked that much at the K, so we talked for maybe 10mins about the K... and then he replied with "look, I know you're serious about wanting a bike, I know the issues you're dealing with on the Pan... how's about I throw the K in a van, deliver it to you... you can keep it for a weekend and see how you get on with it. I'll even pay for the fuel, and because it's a demo bike, take it as far away as you like."

I mean, a free bike is a free bike, you'd be utterly insane if you had any reply to that other than a "ok, yes, please deliver me a free bike for the weekend!" It doesn't even matter what bike it is at that point.

Last Friday, BMW van arrives and they roll out the '23 K16 GT, I ask them to park it in the barn, they look a little confused about why I keep motorcycles in a barn... but they do, they give me the keys and at that point, it has 299miles on the clock.

Yesterday I fired it up. Nothing too special. No different to the RT really... sure, it revs faster, but boxer vs inline 6 will do that. Other than that, it's just a "new BMW." Around town type riding, Road mode is still too soft, Dynamic mode is OK. Rain mode only really softens the throttle, so didn't bother touching that. The horn though, that's amazing for scaring pedestrians from 60ft away. And it's a stock horn. Serves them right for trying to cross the road in front of me when I had right of way...

Then I got on the A486 heading from Chester to Llangollen, dual carriageway, opens from 30mph to 70mph limit... I had the bike in 5th gear and just because I could, I twisted my wrist hard & hit the throttle stop. Damn good job that cop had turned off just before the NSL signs, because he would have happily revoked my licence for the speed I was doing before I even had the chance to look at the speedo! The ESA realised what I was doing and sucked the bike flat to the floor (I suspect the sneaky German engineers are trying to prevent wheelies) and the bike and I just disappeared over the horizon.

So then I calmed down a little, threw on the cruise control... and giggled to myself whenever another biker came the opposite way. Mostly because they looked puzzled at me waving at them with my right hand at 70mph.

Then I was up the A5 heading for a butty when a thought struck me. I hadn't been talking to myself about the bike at all. It was literally as though the bike simply didn't exist, and just got on with doing whatever I asked of it. When I stopped for food I had to take my ear plugs out just to reassure myself the engine was in fact still running on the bike. By the time I'd finished eating, I'd already decided.

By the time I'd signed the dealership paperwork on a brand new K1600 GTL E, the loaner GT had 331 miles on the clock. That's a sneaky sales tactic... "here, have a free bike for a weekend, we know you'll be buying one in about 30miles time." But damn, it works. The money I spent last December to keep the ST13 on the road is about 8 months payments on the K.

I have video's recorded of my test rides, on both the RT and K... but haven't had the time to edit etc.
How does the maneuverability compare to the ST1300? I struggled with the ST1300 in low speed and parking lots, just never got comfortable with it.
Thanks, John
 
OP
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How does the maneuverability compare to the ST1300? I struggled with the ST1300 in low speed and parking lots, just never got comfortable with it.
Thanks, John
In all honesty, slow speed, off the bike and walking with it, it's no different to the ST13. Moving under it's own power, sub 10mph, things are a little different. I'm yet to have a problem with the side stand (maybe I got used to planning the parking with the ST?)... and occasionally if I'm carrying a lot of luggage it's a bit slower to put on the centre stand, not more difficult, it just doesn't "pop" - the ST, no matter what was on it, I could "throw" up onto the centre stand.

A massive plus for the K16 is the reverse gear, which doesn't go above 2mph. On the downside, the fly-by-wire throttle takes some getting used to. BMW seem to have tried to make it "intelligent" - under approx 3k RPM the bike tries to prevent stalling by electronically varying the revs (and to a lesser extent, the clutch). She will still stall if you're ham fisted, and it makes setting off at traffic lights sound pretty different as the computer tries to figure out what you're doing.

There's no escaping it though, she's a heavy beast. Wet weight is 768lbs. Couple of weeks back I pulled up at a particularly tight junction, the bike was slightly away from me and I instinctively used the bars to right the situation. I felt that in my left shoulder for a couple of days after (though in fairness to the bike, I have a dodgy left shoulder anyway from an old injury).

At speed, absolute non issue and you can happily steer on the freeway using just the foot pegs (same as I did on the ST13).

I'd argue low-speed-high-rev situations is actually better on the K. At my new office we don't have parking, so I park in a public multi-storey. I learnt pretty quickly that the floor is coated in a substance that gets rain water out of the car park quickly (useful for the car park owner, but makes it really slick for the motorist when even slightly damp). The rear spins up really quickly, even when trying just to gently set off - so I've developed a bit of a habit of leaving black lines in the car park as I essentially power slide around it.

In traffic, and particularly lane splitting, there's no escaping the size of the bike, the mirrors, widest point on the bike, are 1m wide! Here in the UK, that limits your options for splitting a little compared to the ST's 935mm. She's also approx 20cm longer wheelbase, IIRC.
 
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