tight axle after wheel bearing change

DeanR

DeanR

Joined
Jul 28, 2007
Messages
2,787
Location
finger lakes ny
Bike
1999 ST1100
Decided to have the shop change my rear wheel bearings rather than doing it myself.
Mechanic with many decades of experience did it, and I think I had him change them some time ago as well.
Got home and the axle does not go through properly. Hitting the spacer I believe, which stops its progress.
Took it back to have him take a look. He gave it a couple knocks with a small hammer and it did go in, getting past the spacer. It does not however spin freely on the bearings. (I had cleaned the axle so it had no grease on it yet, which didn't help matters.
He explained what was happening (I didn't quite follow) and said it would be ok.
I've always been able to insert/remove an axle by hand, pushing it through.
Is he correct? Is this ok for OH-STOC next week??

Haven't installed the wheel yet. Have to clean/apply moly etc.
Splines still look new!
 
Last edited:
The axle passes through the stationary part of each bearing and also the spacer tube which is also stationary (with respect to the spinning wheel). So there is nothing that is actually rotating on the axle or the spacer tube, hence a little friction there does matter. The spacer tube can sit a little off-centre when the bearing is installed which sounds like what happened here. More importantly, does the wheel spin freely and have no freeplay?
 
Not installed yet, and I can push the axle in by hand now, after greasing it. There's a fair amount of friction though. I wouldn't call it spinning freely.
 
Before you inserted the axle, did the bearings spin freely when you stick your finger in the axle hole and turn the bearings? If so, the spacer tube is still probably a bit off center. Since the bearings are new, and freshly greased, there will be a little (emphasis on little) drag on them. The new ones
should not be loosey goosey like old dry bearings that feel rough, make noise, and spin very freely before you swap them out.

If the bearings drag when you use your finger to turn them, I have to wonder if the spacer is rubbing on them or if he pressed the bearings in too tightly. This might be worth a call to @Igofar, he has the experience and knowledge to answer all your questions (about your bike, that is).
 
It sounds as though the second bearing has been driven in using just the inner or outer race. Or probably more likely, it has continued to be driven after the spacer has met the centre race of the the first bearing. It puts a side load on the bearing.

Alternatively, the bearing hasn't met the spacer when it was driven in. In that case the wheel will spin freely until the axle is tightened - at which point it pulls the centre races towards each other, leaving the outer race behind. If you can put your finger into the bearing and move the spacer, that isn't right.

Some better explanation here. Diagrams are for the ST 1300 rear wheel, but the same idea applies to the 1100 too. Note that it makes a difference which bearing is installed first.

Article [13] - ST1300 - Maintenance - Fitting Wheel Bearings - What the manuals don't tell. | ST1300 Articles

A PDF file to describe how to fit a pair of bearings into a wheel of the ST1300. It is straight forward, but if you don't know the correct procedure, there is a good chance of getting it wrong. This pdf explains what things could go wrong, and how to avoid them. A quick rundown and a few...
www.st-owners.com www.st-owners.com
 
Who ever installed your bearings did a very poor job of it from the sound of it.
As John suggested, or pointed out, it sounds like whoever hammered the bearing(s) in place, either didn't use a correct bearing driver, or forced the bearing(s) in crooked, or too deep and side loaded the bearings.
Just because he forced/hammered the axle past the bearings, does not mean its OK.
With the wheel off, insert the axle in one side of the wheel, about 3 inches. This will be through the bearing, and should hold the bearing stay square and in place.
With this done, then take your finger in the opposite bearing and see if it turns smoothly without binding, or see if its shoved up against the bearing stay too tight etc.
I would make this clown remove both bearings, and replace them with new bearings, providing he knows how to install them correctly, and uses the correct installation tools.
Riding the bike with the bearings like that can only cause more issues/damage etc.
:WCP1:
 
I'll review all the above info, and try the suggestions tomorrow.
Part of my difficulty with this comes from never having replaced bearings myself. So the terminology is getting me a bit lost.

The bearings do spin freely with a finger.
The spacer has a little movement/play.
The axle moves in and out, by hand, with a bit of friction, not an easy smooth slide. But not terrible.

Igofar said:
Riding the bike with the bearings like that can only cause more issues/damage etc.
Click to expand...
What could be the potential damage Larry?

I'm riding about 1500 miles next week. If indeed there is a problem I don't really have time to resolve it.
 
Hammering a steel bearing race into a soft aluminum rim crooked could/may have damaged the bearing seat in the wheel...
You really want to risk riding 1500 miles next week on bearings that may have been installed/damaged incorrectly?
Your call, but you may want to factor in the cost of a tow bill when/if your bearings decide to come apart and strand you somewhere on the road...
Or worse yet, cause steering issues or a wobble, that could pitch you off the bike....that kind of ruins the ride for most folks.
I think it would probably be better to deal with this issue on your terms, at home, or at the shop, rather than on the side of the road in the dark :rolleyes:
 
DeanR said:
I'm riding about 1500 miles next week. If indeed there is a problem I don't really have time to resolve it.
Click to expand...
Please do NOT interpret my comment as taking the tone of judgement.
But think about your statement for a moment.
If you do not have the time to resolve this issue, how will you have the time to be (likely, or at least possibly) stuck on the road, waiting for a tow and / or waiting for the repairs away from home?
What you describe is a situation that needs to be addressed, and resolved, BEFORE a ride, in my NON-judgemental opinion.
 
Dean,

At one time I thought you had two ST1100s, but only see one in your avatar now. If you still have the second bike around you could compare the friction on both of them to get a better idea of how different it is after the bearing replacement. Or, you could swap the rear wheel from the other one to go on your trip and resolve this issue when you get back. If you do a wheel swap it might be a good idea to keep the spline drives coupled with their respective final drive units, in case they each have their own unique wear pattern. Not sure if it's really important that you do that, but I think its fairly easy to remove the spline drive from the wheel.
 
dwalby said:
Dean,

At one time I thought you had two ST1100s
Click to expand...
You've read my mind Doug.
Currently awaiting a call from the 'white courtesy phone'.

I just got the 91 out of the corner of the garage to basically do everything you've mentioned. It hasn't been ridden for 5 years except for a yearly jaunt down the street. Not much plastic on it, gas tank is out, water pump weeps, alternator leaks a little, and has an untested repair (red wire bypass). So,,,, not trip worthy.

If this definitely winds up being an issue, I suppose I would swap wheels (and expect the shop to transfer the new tire over).

Shoulda done the wheel bearings myself, learning how to and borrowing the tool kit. This was not something I expected to find though. Wasn't happy with how one of the bearings felt when I pulled the wheel.
 
glad to hear it,

can't tell from here how bad the bearing swap is, but agree that putting 1500 miles on it on a trip to find out if it was OK wouldn't be my first choice.
 
Looks like I'm good to go.
After listening to ideas and advice here, and doing some checks, I installed the wheel. Axle went in ok, wheel is spinning as it should with no weird movements/binding or anything unusual. I feel a lot better.
Seems the mechanic did good, in an old school kind of way.
By the way, this was the rear wheel.
Thanks Igofar Larry. Very helpful conversation.
 
DeanR said:
Looks like I'm good to go.
After listening to ideas and advice here, and doing some checks, I installed the wheel. Axle went in ok, wheel is spinning as it should with no weird movements/binding or anything unusual. I feel a lot better.
Seems the mechanic did good, in an old school kind of way.
By the way, this was the rear wheel.
Thanks Igofar Larry. Very helpful conversation.
Click to expand...
Don't keep us in suspense, what did Larry say and what did you find? In the end that mechanic did not skew the bearing when he drove it into the wheel? How did you resolve the rubbing/increased friction?
 
SMSW said:
Don't keep us in suspense, what did Larry say and what did you find? In the end that mechanic did not skew the bearing when he drove it into the wheel? How did you resolve the rubbing/increased friction?
Click to expand...
As I said, the mechanic installation was ok, once installed and axle tightened to bring things together.
 
SMSW said:
Don't keep us in suspense, what did Larry say and what did you find? In the end that mechanic did not skew the bearing when he drove it into the wheel? How did you resolve the rubbing/increased friction?
Click to expand...
From the sound of it, the mechanic that installed the bearings didn't seat them deep enough (probably on purpose) knowing that when the wheel was torqued to specs, that it would draw the bearings together a bit more.
The inner spacer was a tad too loose, and was tipping down and catching the end of the axle as he tried to insert it.
I had him take his axle(s) and insert one of them partway in the opposite side of the wheel (through the bearing & just enough to square up the inner stay) then the axle going through, lined up and went through smoothly.
When he torqued the axle down, it pulled things together slightly, and everything lined up correctly, and the inner stay was no longer an issue.
Kudo's for Dean to having the patience to stick with it and sort this issue out.
Ride safe.
 
Hm…. Sounds like the bearings were not installed fully. The distance collar should be tight to the inner races of both bearings. Sounds like you’ve now induced a side load to both bearings. JMO

John
 
Igofar said:
...............From the sound of it, the mechanic that installed the bearings didn't seat them deep enough (probably on purpose) knowing that when the wheel was torqued to specs, that it would draw the bearings together a bit more.
Click to expand...

Well, if he did this on purpose it was a job not well done. What would have been the value of this vs. just seating the bearings properly? Dean does most of his routine PM but brought this job to a shop because he wasn't comfortable doing it himself and in the end he spends hours troubleshooting. Underscores why many of us do our own work because we find many shops don't do a good job.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom