Trailer Brakes Yes or No

[Andrew Shadow]

I have been researching trailer brakes for a camper trailer to be towed behind an ST1300. The trailer would be a Time Out Deluxe which weighs in at 385 pounds plus whatever cargo is added. Time Out sells a kit to convert this trailer to having brakes. It is pricey at $500.00 USD but the price is secondary to knowing whether it is safer with trailer brakes or without.

In researching this I have found everything from never pull a trailer without brakes behind a motorcycle because you will die all the way to never pull a trailer with brakes behind a motorcycle because you will die. Not very helpful. From what I can gather I believe that Time Out Trailers are equipped with Dexter Torflex light duty axles. I also believe that the brake conversion kit that Time Out sells is a Dexter trailer brake kit. The biggest dangers cited in both cases is the impact the trailer has on the motorcycle during hard stops. There is also a concern about the trailer brakes applying to aggressively (apparently it is difficult to control them properly to match motorcycle braking) and the trailer brakes applying either unexpectedly or much harder than expected.

In looking at the Dexter site I found that they do not recommend that brakes be used on trailers towed behind motorcycles.

From the Dexter website;
"BRAKES - Can brakes be used on trailers towed by motorcycles?
Dexter Axle does not recommend the use of brakes on small touring trailers designed to be pulled by motorcycles. Proper control of the brakes on these vehicles can be very difficult. Even the slightest imbalance of the trailer brakes might cause the rider to lose control. A secondary issue is the spontaneous and unexpected actuation of the brakes. This can occur when a Torflex axle is not fully loaded. Under this condition, the torsion arm is not rotated to its normal position, which puts the brake assembly out of level. If the axle is fitted with electric brakes, this non-level condition can result in unexpected brake actuation when the trailer encounters large bumps. This can occur because the magnet inside the brake has sufficient mass to move the actuating lever during extreme jounce situations. The farther the brake assembly is rotated out of level, the greater the chance that this spontaneous action can take place."

A lightweight trailer would not present an issue. I am wondering about a heavier trailer like the Time Out Deluxe. I know there a quite a few people on this forum who tow heavier trailers in the weight range of the Time Out Deluxe- 385 pounds empty. Some of you have trailers equipped with brakes and many more do not. For those of you who tow heavier trailers I would like your opinions about whether having trailer brakes is a good idea or a bad idea and why.

 

[SMSW]

I' don't tow a trailer, Andrew, but a lot of what Dexter is saying is legalese to cover themselves. That said, if they are recommending against trailer brakes when their own axles are being used, that carries a lot more weight than a generalized statement like, your facetioius 'don't use brakes on a trailer or you will die'. A lot of us (I'm including myself in this) get away with stuff we probably would not do if we stopped to think about those actions beforehand. My guess is that you would be fine towing w/o brakes most of the time - it's that emergency stop when some idiot pulls a left turn in front of you that will make things difficult. I would also guess you could tow with brakes safely, but if something happened to kick them on, say when you are leaned over in a curve w/ oncoming traffic, you might be in trouble. Sorry I cannot be of more help.

 

[rjs987]

I also read a lot about trailer brakes on trailers towed behind motorcycles. Seems the consensus is that for smaller lighter cargo trailers it's not recommended at all. Those are too light to bother with the added weight of the braking unit installed and to be of any significant aid in control behind the bike.

Camper trailers are another thing altogether since they are usually much heavier. I towed a Time Out camper (before they had the Deluxe but the bigger one) behind my Gold Wing. Bigger heavier bike with better braking to start with made towing that camper fine without trailer brakes, but I knew that adding trailer brakes would have helped if adjusted correctly. I towed a Mini Mate camper behind my ST1100 and that was fine also without trailer brakes. The real trick is adjusting them correctly to match the bike. A heavy camper behind the bike WILL push the bike in any stop. A little in an easy slow stop, a LOT in a hard stop. This was true even with my Gold Wing. Riding very carefully may allow you to not need trailer brakes in the camper, but then you don't control all traffic situations so I really still cannot say either way.

It's the same decision about using a swivel coupler or not. I would, and did, add the swivel coupler on a Time Out camper but went without the trailer brake unit. I would recommend a swivel coupler on a camper trailer, but don't think it makes a significant difference on a cargo trailer.

Towing a trailer of any kind adds to the risks of riding. All risks must be known and managed by the rider as they see fit.

 

[jodog]

I have been researching trailer brakes for a camper trailer to be towed behind an ST1300. The trailer would be a Time Out Deluxe which weighs in at 385 pounds plus whatever cargo is added. .

I don't know the answer to your question but I do have to ask what the heck size is a trailer that weighs 385 lb before you put anything in it?

 

[Andrew Shadow]

What I have come across as the major argument for brakes is;
1- They will significantly reduce your stopping distance in the case of emergency braking. This seems nothing but logic however significant is never defined of course.
2- If there is a need for hard braking while traveling in any direction but a straight line, having trailer brakes will prevent the trailer from pushing the rear end of the bike off of its line and upsetting it and causing a loss of control and a slide.

What I have come across as the major arguments for no brakes is;
1- The increase in stopping distance is easily adjusted for making the brakes unnecessary. I fail to see how that applies in a panic stop however as you cannot plan for one.
2- Because they are claimed to be almost impossible to adjust the brake pressure properly for such light trailers (in a relative way) while using a motorcycle as a tow vehicle you risk to much braking power being applied at the trailer (or the brakes being applied when not commanded- See Dexter warning in post # 1 above) if there is a need for hard braking while traveling in any direction but a straight line, causing the trailer to pull back on the rear end of the bike pulling it off of its line and upsetting it and causing a loss of control.

So pretty much the same argument but reversed. I have also read about the trailer brakes applying unevenly on one side versus the other causing loss of control problems. If these reported reliability issues regarding these very small (7" X 1 1/4") electric brake units are to believed they sure do not sound very reliable.

I have towed a lot of trailers but always behind big heavy tow vehicles where it was difficult for the trailer to significantly influence the tow vehicle in anything but the most extreme situations. With an ST1300 and this particular trailer however, the trailer is somewhere between 40 and 50% of the weight of the tow vehicle which is completely different and new situation for me.

Based on all of the contradictory reports I have read I have no idea if trailer brakes are safer or a liability at this point. This is why I would appreciate hearing the opinions of those here who have experience towing heavier trailers behind an ST1300.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

I don't know the answer to your question but I do have to ask what the heck size is a trailer that weighs 385 lb before you put anything in it?

Time Out Deluxe Camper Trailer

 

[rjs987]

I don't know the answer to your question but I do have to ask what the heck size is a trailer that weighs 385 lb before you put anything in it?

And here are a few photos of my Time Out camper and my Gold Wind just for comparison:

 

[Larry Fine]

And here are a few photos of my Time Out camper and my Gold Wind just for comparison:

So, do you have brakes on the trailer, and how does the trailer affect the ride?

 

[rjs987]

So, do you have brakes on the trailer, and how does the trailer affect the ride?

Never did put brakes on that trailer. Did put a swivel coupler though. Before I did that I did have the GW sink into a newly surfaced parking lot with camper hitched. It was new asphalt and a very hot summer day. Just happened to go out to my bike to get something and found it about one inch from falling over and twisting either the hitch or bike frame or trailer frame or all of the above. Swivel went on the trailer tongue real soon after and never worried about that happening again.

As stated in other posts, towing a trailer of that size with a bike of any size WILL affect stopping and starting. It did take about 1/3 longer to stop. And starting up from a stop... well, let's just say don't expect the normal performance in acceleration what ever you may be used to without a trailer back there. On the road once under way and up to speed it was mostly as if it just disappeared behind the bike. Big bumps definitely let you know it was back there (just like towing a RV with a 4X4 truck) and if there was a significant side wind or severe turbulence from an 18 wheeler on the Interstate you would feel the affects on a bigger surface being pushed around, but nothing that wasn't easily managed.

I would say to anyone deciding to pull a camper, or even a cargo trailer, behind a bike to practice pulling it all over your neighborhood and then all around town first just to get accustomed to it and gain confidence (and get over any stigma you may have about it).

I do recommend that this sort of thing is not really for a new rider but someone with some significant experience riding just a bike alone.

All that said, I would have no issues with pulling a camper again. I just haven't had the need to lately.

 

[Larry Fine]

Sounds about like towing two bikes on my trailer behind my Pontiac Montana.

 

[fnmag]

...All that said, I would have no issues with pulling a camper again. I just haven't had the need to lately.[/QUOTE]...
I understand that you have no need to but would you pull a trailer with your 650 Burgman?

 

[Roger]

There is no doubt that tugging a trailer is 'different' to riding solo - but you just ride in a different way appropriate to the load.... Whether brakes would help in any/all situations, I can't say - but I know that the trailer has started many interesting conversations with some wonderful folk - far more than if we were riding solo...

 

[bstig60]

I had a time out that I towed behind two Goldwings. It did not have brakes and I really saw no need for them. As the 1300 is a much lighter bike and the fact that the trailer loaded can approach the weight of the bike, I would recommend brakes when towing behind an ST1300.

 

[rjs987]

...
I understand that you have no need to but would you pull a trailer with your 650 Burgman?

I would consider pulling a cargo trailer. I've known a number of Burgman 650 owners many years ago who did pull a Mini Mate camper with their Burgmans from Washington state to Iowa and beyond headed east, and back again. More than once, too. I'd have to think a while before pulling one of those since the B650 is 100 lbs lighter than the ST and the CVT transmission would be strained more than I would want pulling a camper. But a cargo trailer would be easy enough. There are hitches made specifically for the Burgman 650. I'd have no issues with my CTX being the same engine and tranny as the ST as well as the same weight. I'd have to make the hitch for that however. I do have the plans to do so for that bike and make them available to anyone on the CTX1300 forum (or anyone who asks).

btw- when you delete the forum codes at the beginning of a quoted post you eliminate the quote box and eliminate the notice that is provided to the member you quoted to let them know.

 

[Jim C-G]

I am a first time trailer hauler... did just over 10,000 km (6250 miles? with my used Mini Mate in tow from Sept. 1 to Oct. 26. The Mini Mate, with all my stuff on board, probably weighed in around 350-375 lb.. It is different, you need to adjust your riding a bit and be aware of the trailer all the time. With this size trailer, I would not consider brakes. I did have one straight line emergency stop at 55 mph. and yes, it did take a little longer than wished... but it was a good solid stop with 6-10 ft. to spare. I couldn't be convinced that it was worth the finickiness of the brakes or really necessary on my weight of trailer. Now, getting up to the 500 lb. range loaded and that might be a different story. I've seen trailers that looked like they might have had over 750 lb. on them. For some, the electric brakes and even swivel hitches are a "piece of mind" install. I don't have a swivel hitch either. I don't think either camp is totally right and there will always be an exception moment for anything we plan for.

 

[T_C]

I tugged a Travl-Lite, that wasn't light,
empty it weighed in at #360.

Probably 20k miles on it with no brakes. Never felt the need fir it but it did remind me it was back there when I would come into a turn a little on the 'hot' side.

I'm pulling a Roll-a-Home now. Considerably lighter and easier. Will still remind you it's back there but not as much push on the corners. Still no brakes and no plans to add. Keep vigilant and leave distance, unplanned emergencies will happen, you can prepare all you want but not have a plan for every possible scenario.

 

[rjs987]

Just for added contrast here is photo of my Mini Mate behind the ST1100.

 

[ad.hom]

I read a report in a UK magazine a good few years back where they put a trailer on the back of a bike and put it through its paces on a sports track, and tested its behaviour when 'spirited' riding. The results were surprisingly impressive

I actually saw a GW, just south of Liverpool, pulling a trailer. Notable, because in all my years, it's the first bike trailer I've actually seen on the road.

All I remember, is that it was black.
HTH.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

I have no concerns about towing the trailer per se. I understand that stopping distance will be increased and handling will change when towing a trailer. I also get that having brakes on the trailer will bring that stopping distance back down. Stopping distance aside, what I am trying to figure out is;
- if having trailer brakes is a net gain in safety because it will improve how the bike handles when braking because the trailer will not be pushing the motorcycle or
- if having trailer brakes is a net loss of safety because the bike's handling will be negatively impacted because the trailer will be pulling back on the bike when braking or pulling unevenly from one side to the other.

In a perfect world where the trailer brakes operate properly, are adjusted properly, are calibrated properly to the tow vehicle, never spontaneously and unexpectedly apply when not commanded, do not apply unevenly from one side to the other, etc. there is no issue or concern and they are a benefit.

So I wonder if I might be asking the wrong question. Maybe my question should be directed to people who have electric brakes on small trailers. Maybe that question should be to ask if what I have been reading about small electric trailer brakes being inherently impossible to adjust and calibrate properly to a motorcycle as a tow vehicle is true. I find it surprising that they could be as unreliable as some of what I have seen written would indicate. If they are just as reliable as electric brakes that are used on larger trailers I will have a better understanding.

 

[Jim C-G]

If you are on Facebook, try the group "Motorcycle Trailer Camping". There seems to be lots of well experienced people on there and I just know they certainly have opinions. Also there is a "Motorcycle Trailer Towing & Touring" group.
I think one of the problems is that most of the electric brakes are made for 1500 lb and up.... there can be a lot more forgiveness in the brakes being a little off with that kind of mass, but with the relatively light weight and size of our motorcycle trailers having 2 trailer brakes that might react differently makes me uneasy. There just seem to be fewer options in light weight trailers (fewer manufacturers) They might be easier to adjust and maintain than I think. Best to get some advice from people who have been using them for years.