My TourMaster Flex jacket has a rain liner that kept me dry in rain but it suffers from the same thing as most textile jackets with a rain liner: the jacket itself gets wet before the water gets stopped by the liner. the result for me was that I was dry, but felt clammy due to the wet jacket. I haven't tried those jackets that are waterproof on the outside so can't comment on those. My best solution is with Frogg Toggs. Keeps the water off the jacket. Jacket stays dry and comfy. Only use the rain liner as a wind liner. Have tried a Dry Rider rain suit but ended up with lots of sweat inside and didn't really keep all the rain out. Had a vinyl military rain suit before that with the same result (actually worse at keeping the rain out). Frogg Toggs do keep the rain out, I'm bone dry with those. They are light and breath also so very comfy to wear. I don't mind putting on a rain suit for the few times I've needed one. I am also cheap. I have one jacket that works for me in all weather temps by just adding or removing liners or layers.