What Color The Coolant Fluid?
- Thread starter lomita
- Start date
The Honda brand coolant is blue. When it came time to flush and replace the coolant on my bikes I used the Honda brand. Yes it was a few dollars more than buying coolant from an auto supplies store, but I was assured it would be ok for all the components in the cooling system.
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BakerBoy
It's all small stuff.
Honda Type 2 coolant, in the fast blue color: https://www.amazon.com/Genuine-Honda-Parts-OL999-9011-Coolant/dp/B0089LSFJ0 You can get it at any Honda auto parts counter.
To your question "can any silicate free coolant be used?" No. Only Type 2 silicate-free, and you can't always tell from the label. See here for a good discussion: http://pages.infinit.net/mcrides/engine_tech/engine_coolant.htm. Hence, why Honda Type 2 is a good idea.
To your question "can any silicate free coolant be used?" No. Only Type 2 silicate-free, and you can't always tell from the label. See here for a good discussion: http://pages.infinit.net/mcrides/engine_tech/engine_coolant.htm. Hence, why Honda Type 2 is a good idea.
ANY silicate free antifreeze can be used. I bet all of the antifreeze sold today is silicate free. If you read the article at the above link, it says type 1 antifreeze contains silicate, so the above statement is a bit confusing since it implies there are two silicate free coolants, type 1 & type 2 , and that's not true. Only type 2 are silicate free.
Save some money and buy ANY silicate free antifreeze you can find at the cheapest price. I bought two gallons of an off-brand pre-mix antifreeze at the end of winter last year that was on sale at my local discount food store for $5 a gallon.
And I bet most antifreeze is produced by only a handful of companies in the country - similar to batteries. There is nothing magic about the expensive brand name antifreeze brands.
If not pre-diluted, make sure to use distilled water to dilute. It's cheap and contains no impurities.
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st11ray
2006 ST1300
I use Shell Rotella ELC 50/50 NF. You can use it in anything you have from tractor trailer trucks to motorcycles. It meets Japanese OEM specs for silicate free antifreeze.
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I thought the designation 'Type 2 coolant' simply identified the fluid as being silicate free.
Blrfl
Natural Rider Enhancement
The type numbers are Honda's thing. Everybody else calls it "silicate-free."
--Mark
Thanks for the input everyone. The blue stuff drained had left a trail of leaks all over the engine, including pitting of both the head coolant fittings, so severe after 15 years, I replaced them, along with all other rubber and thermostat on the cooling system. The pump and its seal were not changed out, at least, not for $300 during my extensive rejuvenation of the bike. I do not want to rebuild the water pump. The bike has 26000 miles on it.
IMHO, With only 26K miles, the water pump impeller and seal should be fine if there was antifreeze in the engine. My seal looked like new and wasn't leaking after 80K miles.
BakerBoy
It's all small stuff.
The Honda Type II coolant MSDS can be found here: http://www.worldpac.com/tagged/Coolant_-_Honda.pdf
The Zerex G-05 MSDS can be found here (after a bit of drilling down): https://sds.valvoline.com/valvoline-sds/sds/materialSearch.faces
Both MSDS are attached to this post also. While the bulk is very similar, there are differences in minor constituents between those two (as there are in many similar coolants).
I know professionally (I'm an engineer) that chemistry differences (Brand A vs Brand B) in all kinds of fluids that are used in my line of work that there are differences in performance and degradation of various "equivalent" fluids--some are better than others and chemistry differences can have effect. The longer a fluid is in service (such as 2 years inside an engine), the more any subtle differences can matter.
I'm not arguing that we must use the Honda coolant, rather am simply saying that I for one am not knowledgeable in those minor ingredient's activity/purpose within the motor. So for *me*, I'll trust Honda's engineers who do know and who 'design' their coolant specs to be compatible with their engine parts, seals, and use conditions. So *I* use Honda's Type II coolant, change it on recommended intervals, and don't worry any further.
I'll also mention that my ST13 did NOT have Honda's blue Type II coolant as delivered from the factory. I've no idea what brand coolant mine had in it, but it was green:
That very coolant also precipitated out some debris (both in the overflow bottle and in the drain pains), reinforcing that coolant issues can show up after long service time:
The Zerex G-05 MSDS can be found here (after a bit of drilling down): https://sds.valvoline.com/valvoline-sds/sds/materialSearch.faces
Both MSDS are attached to this post also. While the bulk is very similar, there are differences in minor constituents between those two (as there are in many similar coolants).
I know professionally (I'm an engineer) that chemistry differences (Brand A vs Brand B) in all kinds of fluids that are used in my line of work that there are differences in performance and degradation of various "equivalent" fluids--some are better than others and chemistry differences can have effect. The longer a fluid is in service (such as 2 years inside an engine), the more any subtle differences can matter.
I'm not arguing that we must use the Honda coolant, rather am simply saying that I for one am not knowledgeable in those minor ingredient's activity/purpose within the motor. So for *me*, I'll trust Honda's engineers who do know and who 'design' their coolant specs to be compatible with their engine parts, seals, and use conditions. So *I* use Honda's Type II coolant, change it on recommended intervals, and don't worry any further.
I'll also mention that my ST13 did NOT have Honda's blue Type II coolant as delivered from the factory. I've no idea what brand coolant mine had in it, but it was green:
That very coolant also precipitated out some debris (both in the overflow bottle and in the drain pains), reinforcing that coolant issues can show up after long service time:
The Honda Type II coolant MSDS can be found here: http://www.worldpac.com/tagged/Coolant_-_Honda.pdf
The Zerex G-05 MSDS can be found here (after a bit of drilling down): https://sds.valvoline.com/valvoline-sds/sds/materialSearch.faces
Both MSDS are attached to this post also. While the bulk is very similar, there are differences in minor constituents between those two (as there are in many similar coolants).
I know professionally (I'm an engineer) that chemistry differences (Brand A vs Brand B) in all kinds of fluids that are used in my line of work that there are differences in performance and degradation of various "equivalent" fluids--some are better than others and chemistry differences can have effect. The longer a fluid is in service (such as 2 years inside an engine), the more any subtle differences can matter.
I'm not arguing that we must use the Honda coolant, rather am simply saying that I for one am not knowledgeable in those minor ingredient's activity/purpose within the motor. So for *me*, I'll trust Honda's engineers who do know and who 'design' their coolant specs to be compatible with their engine parts, seals, and use conditions. So *I* use Honda's Type II coolant, change it on recommended intervals, and don't worry any further.
I'll also mention that my ST13 did NOT have Honda's blue Type II coolant as delivered from the factory. I've no idea what brand coolant mine had in it, but it was green:
That very coolant also precipitated out some debris (both in the overflow bottle and in the drain pains), reinforcing that coolant issues can show up after long service time:
Looks like Honda engineers changed their color for the 1300s.
Thanks BakerBoy for finding those MSD sheets. Are you a chemical engineer ? Not much difference between the two that I can see. Even the PH is speced within 0.1 .
And BTW, they should still be effective as far as protecting the cooling system for at least 100K miles. Most cars today have a very long drain & fill interval. From what I have read, the coolant is suppose to coat the inside of the cooling system for protection. So it seems like even after that occurs, if the substance in the cooling that does that is depleted, it's a moot point since the coating is then present.
Very interesting that Honda thought it wasn't that important to use the "magic" blue Honda antifreeze in your ST1300 at the factory. So, I would say owners shouldn't need to be that concerned either. Just use any silicate-free antifreeze designed for aluminum engines. And I bet there is nothing special about the water pump seal used by Honda either that requires the blue coolant.
Jim V. , MSEE
And BTW, they should still be effective as far as protecting the cooling system for at least 100K miles. Most cars today have a very long drain & fill interval. From what I have read, the coolant is suppose to coat the inside of the cooling system for protection. So it seems like even after that occurs, if the substance in the cooling that does that is depleted, it's a moot point since the coating is then present.
Very interesting that Honda thought it wasn't that important to use the "magic" blue Honda antifreeze in your ST1300 at the factory. So, I would say owners shouldn't need to be that concerned either. Just use any silicate-free antifreeze designed for aluminum engines. And I bet there is nothing special about the water pump seal used by Honda either that requires the blue coolant.
Jim V. , MSEE
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The Honda Type II coolant MSDS can be found here: http://www.worldpac.com/tagged/Coolant_-_Honda.pdf
The Zerex G-05 MSDS can be found here (after a bit of drilling down): https://sds.valvoline.com/valvoline-sds/sds/materialSearch.faces
Both MSDS are attached to this post also. While the bulk is very similar, there are differences in minor constituents between those two (as there are in many similar coolants).
I know professionally (I'm an engineer) that chemistry differences (Brand A vs Brand B) in all kinds of fluids that are used in my line of work that there are differences in performance and degradation of various "equivalent" fluids--some are better than others and chemistry differences can have effect. The longer a fluid is in service (such as 2 years inside an engine), the more any subtle differences can matter.
I'm not arguing that we must use the Honda coolant, rather am simply saying that I for one am not knowledgeable in those minor ingredient's activity/purpose within the motor. So for *me*, I'll trust Honda's engineers who do know and who 'design' their coolant specs to be compatible with their engine parts, seals, and use conditions. So *I* use Honda's Type II coolant, change it on recommended intervals, and don't worry any further.
I'll also mention that my ST13 did NOT have Honda's blue Type II coolant as delivered from the factory. I've no idea what brand coolant mine had in it, but it was green:
That very coolant also precipitated out some debris (both in the overflow bottle and in the drain pains), reinforcing that coolant issues can show up after long service time:
Good intentions CAN be foiled. Since it originally came to stealer crated, had to be uncrated, some parts installed(front wheel, etc.), It also comes crated with no fluids installed in motor/cooling system, so who knows what coolant was initially used
. BTW, initial coolant color helps to identify its chemical content(or lack of). That looks by color just be good "old-school" antifreeze of past decades used.
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I use some coolant with pink die in it (same as in my cars). I'm happy with the specs, but there is an issue with lighter colours - it is almost impossible to see the level through the opaque bottle on the bike, and even opening the cover you can only really see it from the top if the level is right up at the full mark (as the bottle bends away from you around its bracket). Might go for something with a darker die next time.
My Honda Service Manual calls for replacement of the 'radiator coolant' at 24K miles. (The Manual is for 2003 - 2011). I don't know about any other years, but I suspect they are the same. Regardless, we hear stories about guys who never change the oil in their old Detroit iron and the car at 75k miles is 'as good as she ever was'. No doubt anti-freeze might still be liquid at 100K miles but protect the engine after 10 years? Let the chemical engineers argue this one out.
Given the relatively low cost and the potential for damage, I'm with John - I use Honda juice and change it as my manual describes.
As an addendum, I have an '89 Honda Accord that we bought new. It is driven maybe 3 to 5K per year now. For a number of reasons, I let the maintenance slip on this car for about 5 years (beyond changing the oil in the fall before parking it for the winter). When I brought it in to my mechanic for some work, he checked everything and I have still not heard the end of his tirade about my not changing the anti-freeze (which was probably way more than 5 years old). It smelled bad and he saw corrosion inside the engine (stat housing). Its been repeatedly flushed and there has been no lasting damage, but AF does NOT last forever, and this stuff was Honda's own.
BakerBoy
It's all small stuff.
Jim, MSME here. I deal with chemistry problems and metal microstructural issues all the time. Initial chemistry is interesting, but more important is how the chemistry changes as it ages, and what that shift leads to (corrosion, or other) during its service.
Where I work, there are many specialized water systems which circulate inside of proprietary hardware. There are many examples of the world's best water treatment chemical company engineers creating problems with their treatments at trace levels--one company's corrosion inhibitors work, but their biocides don't, and vice versa for another company. Or, both work for a third company until their treatment chemicals rapidly precipitate out--their chemical modifiers to extend the useful life of the treatment don't work well--leading to plugged passages in the equipment and corroded parts. And another chemical corrodes only certain surfaces, but the chemicals don't precipitate out. Yet all those chemicals produce water having the same pH and all are highly diluted (trace ppm) in the water. So, the devil is in the details, not the bulk.
I simply deduce from my professional experiences that there can be a long term difference between coolants, and also that coolant chemicals do precipitate out of the coolant (its chemistry is shifting). Coolants have a limited life, and once their chemistry shifts, it is adverse to the engine parts and seals. I don't know that Honda Type II coolant's minor ingredients are more or less effective at protection, remaining stable, and cooling than say, Xerex. I'm simply giving context that coolants aren't identical, and the minor differences usually matter more than the bulk ingredients.
To be fair, this discussion has gotten deeper than it needs to have gotten, and I doubt that there would be a quick and aggressive failure from corrosion within the cooling system of our beloved ST's with any of the silicate free coolants that are brought up in this thread (as long as they're changed at proper intervals).
I checked the owners manual for my '16 Chevy Cruze after I made the above post. Chevy recommends that the coolant is changed every 5 years or 150K miles, whichever occurs first. It has an all aluminum engine ( completely new 1.4L engine for the new '16's ) , BTW.
One thing to keep in mind is that the last ST1100 was made in 2002. Coolant ( and oil ) has apparently improved greatly since then. So the Honda 2 year / 24K mile change recommendation for the ST1100 may not need to be followed with the newer coolants available today. I changed mine earlier this year when I rebuilt my water pump at 80K miles. That will probably be the last time it's changed. The impeller and impeller cavity still looked like new. The coolant hadn't been changed in 40K miles. And when I bought the bike at 40K miles, it didn't have the Honda Blue in the cooling system. I use Red Line Water Wetter, also.
Also, I have a ST1300 service manual. The manual says to use " high quality ethylene glycol antifreeze containing corrosion protection inhibitors" , and to use distilled water to dilute, if necessary. No mention of the Honda Blue , or even a mention of using only non-silicate coolant. That's not a surprise to me since you won't find silicate containing coolant anymore at the auto parts store. My ST1100 Owners Manual says the same, with the addition of " for aluminum engines ". No mention of that in the ST1300 Service Manual, but again I'm not surprised. Modern coolants are all made for aluminum engines.
IMHO, I bet a 5 year change interval wouldn't cause a problem for a ST1100 or ST1300.
One thing to keep in mind is that the last ST1100 was made in 2002. Coolant ( and oil ) has apparently improved greatly since then. So the Honda 2 year / 24K mile change recommendation for the ST1100 may not need to be followed with the newer coolants available today. I changed mine earlier this year when I rebuilt my water pump at 80K miles. That will probably be the last time it's changed. The impeller and impeller cavity still looked like new. The coolant hadn't been changed in 40K miles. And when I bought the bike at 40K miles, it didn't have the Honda Blue in the cooling system. I use Red Line Water Wetter, also.
Also, I have a ST1300 service manual. The manual says to use " high quality ethylene glycol antifreeze containing corrosion protection inhibitors" , and to use distilled water to dilute, if necessary. No mention of the Honda Blue , or even a mention of using only non-silicate coolant. That's not a surprise to me since you won't find silicate containing coolant anymore at the auto parts store. My ST1100 Owners Manual says the same, with the addition of " for aluminum engines ". No mention of that in the ST1300 Service Manual, but again I'm not surprised. Modern coolants are all made for aluminum engines.
IMHO, I bet a 5 year change interval wouldn't cause a problem for a ST1100 or ST1300.
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One of the reasons I check out different threads is to learn from the expertise of SToc'ers with different specialized backgrounds. I really appreciate this information and glad that it had "gotten deeper than it needs to have gotten."