sirbike
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I can see that you are trying very hard to understand.Well, I just don't understand why a feller would want more than one of the same motorcycle ....
Why Motorcycling is Dying???
- Thread starter RaYzerman
- Start date
To quote one of my favorite movies, "You work on commission, right? Big mistake...Big. HUGE!"
ST1100Y
Site Supporter
Emphasis on 'modest' ...That long thing perpendicular out of the back of the house is my modest garage ...
Pop-Pop
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He probably puts them in his living room! Those living in the “holler” do things differently!!!!I just want to see a pic of UP's garage someday.
I can see it now when he decides to sell the house. The listing will say something like, "Enormous garage and workshop. House also has a kitchen and bedrooms, but who cares."
Chris
Pop-Pop
Site Supporter
Oh julia!!!
How many of the grey-haired reality are buying new bikes? I'm part of the "reality" and buy a bike or two every year or two. Usually only one of those is new. However, if I had a Euro for every one I know who was like me, or even remotely similar, among the grey-hair riders I know, I'd still be broke
In order to have marketshare, one must first have mindshare. And I'm going to take a strong guess that the grey-hairs are not looking at bikes based off of advertisements. I think your magazine is inaccurate, or maybe it applies more to the German riders... I've heard this theory before, and in my own personal experience, and even as an old fart, I have a greater positive impact on the younger newer riders than I do on the stubborn old ones. If you are unable to "coolify" or reduce risk aversion to the new group of incoming riders, who will replace the dying/retiring breed of old ones?
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Uncle Phil
Site Supporter
I guess I am part of the 'problem' - I'm old and have not bought a new bike since 2004 ... 
ST1100Y
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The problem with that report is, that it basically revolves around the German market, who's clients (like the 'murricans) drool over everything new and shiny
The core issue however seems correct:
MFG's D&D and marketing depts suffer incurable youth addiction, by which they miss the actual potential consumer group by miles...
I disagree with the title, it's not that Motorcycling is dying, it's there is a over production of motorcycles causing Dealers and Manufacturers to go bankrupt, same with the Car industry, and like UP said I don't buy new Vehicles, but have bought a lot of parts over 45 years.
I've often thought the same thing... we have more motorcycle model choices for beginners and advanced riders alike and yet we have seemingly shrinking rider demographic. IMO, too many choices can dilute manufacturer resources and results in more mediocre bikes and fewer exceptional ones. And I personally don't buy motorcycles to be mediocre...
The timing of reading @DesmoRonin's comments in post #108 above and deleting an email from Motorcycle.com came to close together to pass on commenting. The email was titled "Has KTM Finally Cracked the ADV Sport-Touring Code?". I clicked on the link to see if they were writing about anything that interested me...nope. Not at all.
Probably as a result of having young reviewers who are jaded by the latest and greatest and fastest bikes around. If you just rode a bike with 200 hp and the next bike you review only has 150 hp...it'll seem like a step down. Oh, and by the way...the reviewers can ride these bikes and never have to fork over their own money to do so. It leads to reviews that are meaningless.
Reality on the road (at least for me) is different. When I went from my NT700V with 60 hp to the F800GT with 90 hp, one thing I realized was that the BMW would put me in positions where I'd count on that extra performance to bail me out of dumb stupid situations, like passing where I really shouldn't. The Honda had me planning my passes more. The BMW had me taking more riskier passes because it had more performance. And I realized that one day I'd take one to many risky passes...
I am totally bored and turned off by bikes like this KTM. $23,600 and 173 hp. You've got to be kidding me.
KTM's pictures show it on a racetrack doing wheelies. Not on an open road. The reality check for me on this mad horsepower race is the acceleration times. This KTM that is supposedly the greatest in sport-touring gets from 0-60 mph in 3.2 seconds. My F900XR with 70 hp less, gets there at the same time. In the real world, on the roads I travel, there is no advantage to having a high performance car engine on two-wheels...except the frustration of not being able to use it fully.Kevin Ash did excellent reviews. He reviewed bikes with a focus not on the race track, but on the streets. He even would include things like measuring the height of the mirrors to determine how well suited the bike would be for filtering. There was realism in his reviews.
The fault to me in manufacturers building bikes that no one buys lies in both the manufacturer's missing the mark...and the motorcycle reviewers as well.
Chris
If I had to put it a bit more succinctly...
- Manufacturers build bikes with specs far exceeding what can fully be used on the road.
- Motorcycle reviewers act as their press corps to push these motorcycles and ignore the "lesser" models.
- Some of us with gray/white hair and the means to purchase...ignore one and two above.
I disagree with this too. Who reads magazines nowadays? Sadly, fewer and fewer as the number of magazine sales continues to drop. It's tough to see as I love physical print. And without readers/advertisers, the magazine cannot exist. Even the (sometimes evolved) digizines are smaller, and I suspect most readers have simply switched to other platforms. On digital platforms, many of the smaller "publications" have to rely on Google Adsense revenue, and this is usually catered to the demographic of individual visiting the site. If that demographic is younger as it generally is, the ads will cater to them and not necessarily the actual "potential" consumer group you suggest. And don't expect YouTube to be any different... as the Number Two website in the world behind Google as Number One, the ads are also tuned to the visiting viewer. If that viewer is younger as is also generally the case, the ad will reflect a younger marketing campaign as the digital marketing gurus respond to their analytics. And who do you think owns YouTube? (Hint: it's the only website that is larger than them).The problem with that report is, that it basically revolves around the German market, who's clients (like the 'murricans) drool over everything new and shiny
The core issue however seems correct:
MFG's D&D and marketing depts suffer incurable youth addiction, by which they miss the actual potential consumer group by miles...
BTW, I've read several articles from 1000PS, and I don't think their editorials are always accurate, and they certainly have a narrow (local?) view of the market in general, IMHO.
I think that's spot on. Rider magazine sends me an email monthly "magazine". After awhile, I started noticing that only certain brands and types of motorcycles were reviewed. Then I wondered if that had any correlation to the advertising.
It's like they quit reviewing and started just using the manufacturer's press releases to write their articles.
Chris
Everyone's story/why/path is going to be different. And I perhaps have a slightly skewed perspective as I've ridden and own some pretty extreme performance bikes that not even most reviewers get to ride. I think the younger journalists/reviewers do need to mature, but I imagine it's pretty tough to appeal to the older demographic going out while resonating with the younger generation coming in. I also think that trend towards platform engineering makes it more difficult to write in a manner that differentiates engine characteristics compared to the way it used to be. And unless that platform is stellar, I don't think it does much to properly attract new buyers to a particular manufacturer.The timing of reading @DesmoRonin's comments in post #108 above and deleting an email from Motorcycle.com came to close together to pass on commenting. The email was titled "Has KTM Finally Cracked the ADV Sport-Touring Code?". I clicked on the link to see if they were writing about anything that interested me...nope. Not at all.
Probably as a result of having young reviewers who are jaded by the latest and greatest and fastest bikes around. If you just rode a bike with 200 hp and the next bike you review only has 150 hp...it'll seem like a step down. Oh, and by the way...the reviewers can ride these bikes and never have to fork over their own money to do so. It leads to reviews that are meaningless.
Reality on the road (at least for me) is different. When I went from my NT700V with 60 hp to the F800GT with 90 hp, one thing I realized was that the BMW would put me in positions where I'd count on that extra performance to bail me out of dumb stupid situations, like passing where I really shouldn't. The Honda had me planning my passes more. The BMW had me taking more riskier passes because it had more performance. And I realized that one day I'd take one to many risky passes...
I am totally bored and turned off by bikes like this KTM. $23,600 and 173 hp. You've got to be kidding me.
Kevin Ash did excellent reviews. He reviewed bikes with a focus not on the race track, but on the streets. He even would include things like measuring the height of the mirrors to determine how well suited the bike would be for filtering. There was realism in his reviews.
The fault to me in manufacturers building bikes that no one buys lies in both the manufacturer's missing the mark...and the motorcycle reviewers as well.
Chris
My reality on the road is a bit different than yours. I currently have bikes ranging from an 11hp Vespa to a 240hp missile (that only weighs 375-ish lbs.). If I'm being a (relatively) lazy rider, I prefer to be on a larger displacement, high hp/torque twin... I can lope around in almost any gear/rpm and still shoot for an emergency gap with little to no effort. In fact, I actually have more "oh sh!t!!" moments on my ST than I do on the Ducati's. I'm usually a (right) time and place kind of rider, and IMHO, almost all modern performance adjacent (and plus) bikes are so good that only a very very small handful of riders are going to be able to use any of them fully, especially on the street. As long as the rider has the mental and wrist maturity to determine their own time and place scenarios, it doesn't matter to me how much more bike they have than they really need, irrespective of cost or power.
I suspect too that some of the independent "publications"... blog/vlogs, personal websites, etc. use AI or AI assistance. Press release copy, verbatim or paraphrasing, is much more common as you mention. I usually have press credentials at EICMA and similar, but I rarely bother asking for press kits nowadays as I'm confident that I will run across one in a matter of days online.
I had a friend yrs ago who had around 6-10 bikes all the time. Lived in a 2 bedroom bungalow. His prized possessions( vintage bikes) lived in the house all winter. Second bedroom was reserved for working on the bikes. Visitors had choice of sharing couch with his pit bull or the floor. (Safer on the floor)
This all changed of course when he married a fellow rider.
They still had lots of bikes, nice house with double garage. She made sure though, no bikes would be in the house. (The things you do for love)
Pop-Pop
Site Supporter
There is a over pricing, including interest and jnsurance. Ill stick to low mileage pre owned. Been lucky, sort of, so far.
the Ferret
Daily rider since May 1965
" I'll stick to low mileage pre- owned. Been lucky, sort of, so far ..."
Bingo
I on the other hand rarely buy used motorcycles.Been on forums decades and I've read so many posts of people buying used bikes and finding out previous owners weren't the " master electricians" they thought they were, causing electrical issues hard to track down later on. Plus I've seen how other people treat their bikes and I dont want to buy a bike from someone who treated their bike in that manner." You dont need to use the clutch if you time your shifts" "you cant over rev the bike, because the electronics will step in" " you should run your bike at 85% of redline for maximum efficiency" ... wheelies, power shifts, excessive engine braking for stops and curves, thats not how I treat my bikes, and I don't want to buy a bike treated as such,
So I buy new, put every single mile on my bikes so I know how they were treated. They get serviced regularly, and I get a warranty to protect me in case there is an issue.
That said, the last bike I bought WAS used, and had several electrical modifications. While I was nervous about that, a buddy who turned me on to the deal whose word I trust implicitly, assured me the previous owner was very knowledgable mechanically, was retiring from riding due to age, rode very responsibly, had only put 1200 miles on the bike since new, had all reciepts and records, all the original parts, and a transferable extended factory warranty. I was going to wait another year and buy a new 26 but decided against my normal fears, to go ahead and take a chance on this used bike. I'm hoping I don't regret that decision down the road.
Bingo
I on the other hand rarely buy used motorcycles.Been on forums decades and I've read so many posts of people buying used bikes and finding out previous owners weren't the " master electricians" they thought they were, causing electrical issues hard to track down later on. Plus I've seen how other people treat their bikes and I dont want to buy a bike from someone who treated their bike in that manner." You dont need to use the clutch if you time your shifts" "you cant over rev the bike, because the electronics will step in" " you should run your bike at 85% of redline for maximum efficiency" ... wheelies, power shifts, excessive engine braking for stops and curves, thats not how I treat my bikes, and I don't want to buy a bike treated as such,
So I buy new, put every single mile on my bikes so I know how they were treated. They get serviced regularly, and I get a warranty to protect me in case there is an issue.
That said, the last bike I bought WAS used, and had several electrical modifications. While I was nervous about that, a buddy who turned me on to the deal whose word I trust implicitly, assured me the previous owner was very knowledgable mechanically, was retiring from riding due to age, rode very responsibly, had only put 1200 miles on the bike since new, had all reciepts and records, all the original parts, and a transferable extended factory warranty. I was going to wait another year and buy a new 26 but decided against my normal fears, to go ahead and take a chance on this used bike. I'm hoping I don't regret that decision down the road.
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2004
- Messages
- 94
- Location
- South Western Illinois
- Bike
- S10, DL800, R1300 GS
- 2026 Miles
- 021509
I’ve purchased twelve motorcycles in the last nine years……six new and six used with the only problem ($$$) coming from a used very low mile 2017 VStrom 650 that I purchased. It looked great, had lots of accessories, and only 1400 miles on a seven year old bike. I was unable to ride the bike when purchased as it was raining heavily and within days of purchase the ABS failure light came on (not uncommon on some Vstroms) and wasn’t worth fixing at around $1000.00 for a new ABS pump.
I advertised the bike with the ABS problem noted and had NO interest in the bike even at a rock bottom price. It was soon traded in on a new VStrom 800 and the dealer gave me what I was asking for it when listed for sale.
The other five used motorcycles purchased were flawless low mile bikes that were as good as they looked.
That said, motorcycling is dying with all of my riding buddies being between late 60s to 80. I don’t see much interest from younger people but I still have a few new bikes in my future!