Another Uncle Phil Interesting Running Mystery

Uncle Phil

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Joined
Feb 26, 2007
Messages
11,375
Age
71
Location
In The Holler West Of Nashville, Tennessee
Bike
4 ST1100(s)
2024 Miles
006717
STOC #
698
On my way to the Moonshine Bench Dedication, Frost my 97 ABSII bike (140,000+ miles) ran fine for about 130 miles.
Then she started running on what seemed to be about 2 cylinders - no power with a wide open throttle.
She quit so I coasted into a Shoney's parking lot and was going to pull the plugs but decide to wait.
After she sat a few minutes, she fired up and ran another 120 miles or so with no issues.
Ten miles from Casey, she started the same stuff but I managed to make it okay.
The next day she ran fine to the store and about 120-130 miles at a 'good' pace without any issues.
Then the 'gremlin' struck again and the best I could do was about 40 mph.
We pulled into a truck stop, let her rest, and she fired up again and ran about 60 miles before the problem appeared.
We stopped again, waited a little bit and she fired up again and ran about 30 miles.
We took a longer rest and I switched to backroads since we all three almost got killed by a trucker on I24 who refused to slow down or move over.
She ran fine for about 70 miles then died as I got to my driveway.
My first thought was a fuel pump going out (cut off already removed) or maybe a fuel pump relay.
But @oude geit was behind the last time and he said she was spitting out black smoke from both exhausts.
I just checked the resistance in the coils at the spark plug ends and it's in the 24-26 range which is normal.
I pulled all 4 plugs (Iridiums of unknown age) and the appear to be the 'perfect' color.
I have attached a picture of them (a bit blurry but you can see the color).
The fuel pump has been replaced previously with a Quantum one in the tank.
So is it fire or is it fuel - and how would you verify it?
I really prefer not to just throw parts at it though I have pretty much all the parts I need to throw ... :biggrin:
As usual, I don't have the simple problems, I always seem to have the really 'strange' ones. ;)Spark Plugs.jpg
 
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You need to put a fuel pressure gauge on it and observe f/p when it happens but if you don't think it's fuel maybe the ignighter or a crank sensor. Any one of those could be affected by heat. Does it idle normal? When it happens would it run better with a little choke?
 
You need to put a fuel pressure gauge on it and observe f/p when it happens but if you don't think it's fuel maybe the ignighter or a crank sensor. Any one of those could be affected by heat. Does it idle normal? When it happens would it run better with a little choke?
Tried a little choke when it was misbehaving but it had no effect.
The problem is it only happens when it is out on the road - not when it is setting in the garage. ;-)
 
Here is what I found out when I had the 1100.. when it sits hot the fuel expands, that's why on hot days you get that whoosh when the gas cap comes off. Now get the bike hot and let it sit a bit, if you take a fuel hose off gas will come out like the pump is on till you pop the gas cap. I assume it wasn't very hot out so when you stop the fuel expands from the heat of the engine creating pressure in the tank, then when riding it cooled down from cool air circulating around the tank and looses pressure. On a hot day after a short ride, full tank of gas I unplugged the fuel pump and it ran fine. After about 20 min of riding I plugged it back in. So I suspect fueling. Just my thoughts and I can be way off track.
 
Did you check the coil while they were hot or cold? I know heat can cause coil to break down and once they set and cool off alittle they will run fine till they heat up again. Had a JD gator that we could run till the coil got hot and then had to sit until it cooled off and it would fire right back up again
 
From your description with it getting worse with heat and better when it cools off i would be more inclined to be looking at electrical components like a ignition coil or sensor. We used to use freon to fast cool a component to see if it corrected it.
 
Did you check the coil while they were hot or cold? I know heat can cause coil to break down and once they set and cool off alittle they will run fine till they heat up again. Had a JD gator that we could run till the coil got hot and then had to sit until it cooled off and it would fire right back up again
Checked when cold sitting in Uncle Phil's Repair Shop.
Good idea to check when hot - except I'll probably be on the side of the road in an inconvenient place ... ;)
What is strange is sometimes it will 'recover' itself without stopping. :think1:
 
Hey Phil,

The pic is blurry, but those electrodes appear overly white to me, indicative of too lean a mixture. Fuel starvation? That's all I've got.

EDIT: That might explain the black smoke too, as the higher combustion chamber heat is burning off carbon buildup.
 
How hard is it to swap coils from one of your other bikes?
Well I could do that and may end up doing that.
But I hate to just start swapping parts - as it may or may not fix the problem since it is intermittent.
It is a bit of work to swap coils as they are 'buried' under some stuff.
 
Here is what I found out when I had the 1100.. when it sits hot the fuel expands, that's why on hot days you get that whoosh when the gas cap comes off. Now get the bike hot and let it sit a bit, if you take a fuel hose off gas will come out like the pump is on till you pop the gas cap. I assume it wasn't very hot out so when you stop the fuel expands from the heat of the engine creating pressure in the tank, then when riding it cooled down from cool air circulating around the tank and looses pressure. On a hot day after a short ride, full tank of gas I unplugged the fuel pump and it ran fine. After about 20 min of riding I plugged it back in. So I suspect fueling. Just my thoughts and I can be way off track.
I just blew through the gas cap and the vent hose and did not sense any back pressure at all.
For good measure, I then took an air hose and did the same thing just in case.
 
I just blew through the gas cap and the vent hose and did not sense any back pressure at all.
For good measure, I then took an air hose and did the same thing just in case.
Did you blow INTO the hose through the cap? It won't take much of a vacuum to stop the fuel pump from working.
 
Hey Phil, I’ve had similar issues in the past. Symptoms were similar to yours. Running nice and strong then, out of the blue, it would hesitate and slow down, then pick up again and run well for several miles. At one point it became more serious causing me to pull over.
Long and ugly story short, it turns out it was a loose coil connection.
Now Frost’s issues might not be a loose coil connection but the symptoms you describe sure sound like they are related.
Good luck with your investigation.
 
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