HP4M - will it cause a problem?

[Paul]

I have found that adding Red Oak sawdust created by an 80 tooth blade at oil changes, makes the gearbox so much smoother. It also ensures that the filter bypass valve will operate as it should.

 

[STeveMcD]

Is it really that difficult to make a decision? Its your bike, your oil, your time. What are the advantages to keeping the stuff for use? What are the disadvantages? What is the probability of it causing a problem? Do you live 400 miles from your dealer, i.e. is returning it an onerous task?

I'll answer a question with a question. With all the approved oils out there, why would you even contemplate using an unapproved one?

Interesting that you thought we would know more than Honda's manual. It's been said by a number of guys in many posts in those links I sent in the last thread called "Oil" that most guys here echo what @dduelin said in post 14 above "Go by the Manual". Or, my phrasing, when all else fails, read the instructions.

While I didn’t have the manual with me when I bought the oil, and hadn’t pulled it out of the garage when I started the thread, I apologize for troubling you.

I don’t think the manual says anything about Rotella, or dark side, or a million things Igofar has learned, and I thought it might be reasonable that some folks here had used it and would let me know their experience.

Again, I”ll make sure I always have plenty of time and have done all my research, with appropriate citations, before troubling you again.

p.s. Everyone does dumb stuff and asks dumb questions, not everyone needs to reply like a dick

 

[Sadlsor]

In fairness, @STeveMcD , I've found that caustic replies are relatively rare here, compared to anywhere else.
Guess you just came in, on a lucky day.
Shrug it off, consider some of the responses as outliers (out of the norm), and hang around.
I've said some dumb stuff here, but I keep my flame suit in good operating condition, in the off chance it's needed.

 

[red one]

I found the no moly in the service manual. Yesterday I was running from by son’s house where we had to disassemble his gazebo ahead of the storm, to his fiancee’s shower in RI, to the dealer, to my nephew’s birthday party. I was on the ST and it was hot.

I rushed the oil purchase and when I realized the “M” might be a problem, I asked here.

I left it alone and picked up Mobil 10-40 synthetic motorcycle Oil at the local O’Reilly’s.

The filter put up a helluva fight because last time I flowed the manual and torque it to 20 ft/lb, which seemed more than normal.

Eventually I got frustrated, my son and I tipped her over on the passenger side, I drilled a hole in the cap wrench and then into the filter and sunk a serious self tapping bolt in. It still took a mighty tug on the wrench and I could see the cap wrench trying to slip but the bolt stopped that nnonsense.

The final drive oil was its normal 1 minute job, thankfully.

All good now.

I alway's tighten any oil filter car or motorcycle by hand. Been doing it now for some 50 years...so far so good.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

I find this stuff has approval.

Just a point of reference for those who might be interested to know.
There is currently (as of August 01, 2021) no Shell Rotella engine oil that has JASO MA certification. The Rotella oil container pictured above does not list or claim a JASO MA certification.
The only Shell oils that currently have JASO MA certification are the Shell Advance Ultra 4T line.

 

[Igofar]

Just a point of reference for those who might be interested to know.
There is currently (as of August 01, 2021) no Shell Rotella engine oil that has JASO MA certification. The Rotella oil container pictured above does not list or claim a JASO MA certification.
The only Shell oils that currently have JASO MA certification are the Shell Advance Ultra 4T line.

You may want to enlarge that picture shown and read the label again. I see JASO MA and more on that bottle.

 

[Igofar]

While I didn’t have the manual with me when I bought the oil, and hadn’t pulled it out of the garage when I started the thread, I apologize for troubling you.

I don’t think the manual says anything about Rotella, or dark side, or a million things Igofar has learned, and I thought it might be reasonable that some folks here had used it and would let me know their experience.

Again, I”ll make sure I always have plenty of time and have done all my research, with appropriate citations, before troubling you again.

p.s. Everyone does dumb stuff and asks dumb questions, not everyone needs to reply like a dick

Don’t drag me into this post, I’m on vacation and have been surfing all day.
Besides, I didn’t foolishly torque my oil filter to 20 foot pounds just because of a miss print in the manual.
And why do you always end your posts calling somebody a dick?

 

[Andrew Shadow]

You may want to enlarge that picture shown and read the label again. I see JASO MA and more on that bottle.

Yes you do, but you do not see it written anywhere on that label that it is JASO MA certified, because it is not, which is what I wrote.

What is written is a statement by Shell that claims that it meets the performance requirements of JASO MA/MA2. This is a claim being made by Shell, it is not a JASO MA certification.
No where on that label does Shell claim that it is JASO MA certified oil either, and no where does there appear a JASO MA certification label or a JASO MA approval number.

As I wrote above, I checked JASO before I responded. As of August 01, 2021, the only Shell oil that currently has JASO MA certification is the Shell Advance Ultra 4T line.

 

[Igofar]

You are correct….too much sun and surf today.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

You are correct….too much sun and surf today.

Or maybe to many Piña Colada??

 

[Igofar]

Not getting off topic, I called valvoline to ask them about their premium blue one solution (not JASO rated) and has not been tested nor certified, however they also assured me that there were no additives in this oil that would hurt a wet clutch etc.
They of course pointed out their MC specific oil at twice the price, but said either would work with wet clutches.
I’ve been using their 15w40 Dino oil in many vehicles for years and have never had engine or clutch issues.
Now, back to your regularly stationed oil arguments

 

[Bush]

The filter put up a helluva fight

Next time this happens, if you over tighten it, just drive a screwdriver through both sides and twist it off. Easy, peasy.

 

[Sadlsor]

Next time this happens, if you over tighten it, just drive a screwdriver through both sides and twist it off. Easy, peasy.

Easy, peasy, and MESSY.
And it's still possible to shred the thin exterior skin of the filter, if it's really on that right.
Change oil meself, screw it on hand tight, and I avoid that problem.

 

[ColinW1981]

I drilled a hole in the cap wrench and then into the filter and sunk a serious self tapping bolt in.

STeveMcD, at the risk of being stoned to death by Igofar for oil filter heresy, here's my method for sticky filters.



Note the hammer and appropriate skewering implements on the right and the vanquished filter on the right. Out of sight is the 12" pipe wrench that delivered the fatal blow...

What 30 years in the Army taught me: 1) there are NO problems that CANNOT be solved with explosives (I favor C4) and 2) The BIGGER hammer ALWAYS wins.

You should to NEWSTOC '22, we'll loosen you up nicely...

 

[rogo]

Just a point of reference for those who might be interested to know.
There is currently (as of August 01, 2021) no Shell Rotella engine oil that has JASO MA certification. The Rotella oil container pictured above does not list or claim a JASO MA certification.
The only Shell oils that currently have JASO MA certification are the Shell Advance Ultra 4T line.

I should have stated this stuff has my approval. I often enjoy the oil threads. It was the Yuenglings that actually gets me to reply to one.

 

[SMSW]

You may want to enlarge that picture shown and read the label again. I see JASO MA and more on that bottle.

Larry, I hope you are enjoying your vacation. You should stay there an extra week or two, you've earned it.

I think @dduelin pointed out that said jug's picture does not have the API designation that Honda wants - SE, SF or higher. The Shell juice has a bunch of CK, J,I,and H API's. The only point here is that this oil, which is obviously good stuff, is not what Mother Honda recommends. Av gas is good fuel, as is Jet fuel (kerosene like), but they are not what Ford recommends in their cars (nor Ferrari or Lambo). Maybe we should all just ask Norally what she finds and uses in the hinterlands.

 

[SMSW]

Or maybe to many Piña Colada??

Maybe not enough....

 

[STeveMcD]

Don’t drag me into this post, I’m on vacation and have been surfing all day.
Besides, I didn’t foolishly torque my oil filter to 20 foot pounds just because of a miss print in the manual.
And why do you always end your posts calling somebody a dick?

Always? That’s a stretch.

Always follow the manual, except when there’s a misprint…
Always follow the manual, except when you prefer Rotella…

I call it as I see it. If I’m being a dick, call me one, that’s how I’ll know. There’s always room for a shot here and there, but 99.99% of this place is shared expertise, support and camaraderie.

Enjoy your vacation, go completely off internet, off-grid, detach and relax.

 

[STeveMcD]

Re: Filter torque

As a former owner of several 5th and 6th gen VFR’s, Honda changed the oil filter torque value in their manuals from 7 ft/lbs to 20 ft/lbs between the 5th and 6th generation, which coincides with the introduction of the ST1300.

Without debating torque vs. hand tight, 7 seemed eminently reasonable, 20 seems nuts (As I “experiential” learned yesterday.)

Has anyone ever sourced an explanation for this change? It seems more than a random misprint.

 

[Sadlsor]

Given the number of us who actually hand- tighten filters on bikes AND cars, coupled with the absence of reported loss of oil filters, misprint seems logical.
Unless the motor company is trying to get us all back in their service bays for oil changes...