RyanF9 learns to ride like a cop!

[MidLife]

The last couple of minutes, Ryan was not simply using the clutch to modulate his speed inside the cones, he was opening and closing the throttle... we try to teach that clutch control in the Basic RiderCourse in the u-turn boxes exercise (Ex.9).

You seem to be up on this stuff.

-- Was Ryan saying to keep weight on outer foot in turns?

 

[Sadlsor]

Sorry, had to laugh! 29K?

I knew it would have some here chuckling.

 

[Sadlsor]

You seem to be up on this stuff.

-- Was Ryan saying to keep weight on outer foot in turns?

Dunno.
Watched it in silent mode.
EDIT: 12 years as an MSF RiderCoach, teaching new and experienced riders how to put their head in the game.
It's simple enough to teach the physical and mechanical skills to ride a motorbike, but riders get in trouble usually, with poor decision-making and riding beyond their skill level.
And if you don't ever practice anything beyond getting your butt on the bike and shifting gears, how good can you become? Only passable.
On the other hand, if you THINK about what you do, before you do it, and consciously TRY to learn and improve, it's a game changer.
And a life saver.

 

[MaxPete]

Sorry, had to laugh! 29K?

It took 60K miles on my 2010 to wear out my clutch in SoCal commuter traffic.

What's different between SoCal commuter traffic and normal computer traffic? Lane Splitting, which is also hard on clutches! When Lane Splitting, you are on the throttle, clutch and brakes all the time.

This is just a 5 minutes clip of a typical SoCal commute. You can see my speed in the lower right corner.

A normal day in the life of Lane Splitting

It does look exciting, but too scary for me. I'm sort of glad it is illegal in Ontario....

 

[SupraSabre]

It does look exciting, but too scary for me. I'm sort of glad it is illegal in Ontario....

It takes time to get used to it. I started Lane Splitting back in 1971, in SoCal/LA traffic, and been doing it since, long before they made it "legal".

 

[dduelin]

My ST1300 clutch is still going strong at 29k miles, and I don't hesitate to use the fiction zone in u-turns.
I won't worry about it, just change it when it starts acting cranky.

My 05 ST1300 was still on the original clutch when sold at 180,000. I took several MSG or SMART Ride Like A Cop range courses on it and practiced friction zone work at least once a month the 12 years I owned it. The last time I saw it it was at 205 or 207,000 and the clutch was still going strong. No clutch will stand up to rank abuse but with some mechanical sympathy they go much longer that without such.

 

[dduelin]

Dunno.
Watched it in silent mode.
EDIT: 12 years as an MSF RiderCoach, teaching new and experienced riders how to put their head in the game.
It's simple enough to teach the physical and mechanical skills to ride a motorbike, but riders get in trouble usually, with poor decision-making and riding beyond their skill level.
And if you don't ever practice anything beyond getting your butt on the bike and shifting gears, how could can you become? Only passable.
On the other hand, if you THINK about what you do, before you do it, and consciously TRY to learn and improve, it's a game changer.
And a life saver.

There are many riders riding 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years or more with the same skill set they learned the first 6 months.

 

[Moto-Charlie]

I live in NH and as such fair bit of my annual riding is in the summer. It's separated into riding here and approx. 2 - 2 1/2 months in the Alps on my tours. In the Alps I end up riding 3 - 6 passes a day with maybe 100 - 200 switchbacks per day plus lots of twisty roads.

I've experimented with lots of different ways to lean, clutch, brake, etc. in order to get through the switchbacks and twisties at a reasonable pace with minimal effort (to conserve energy day after day).

At the end the day I have somehow coincidentally gravitated to using the techniques described Ryan's video. I ride most of the twisty and sweeping turns counterbalancing while I sit upright and move the bike under me. I counter sit on occasion if it's a real tight switchback to go through and I'll frequently hold the throttle steady and modulate the speed with the clutch if I'm going back and forth from one switchback to the next.

As the ride leader I've frequently had fast riders following me asking me why I'm not leaning off or moving around on the bike through the corners. I tell them it seems to work for me and the less I move the less I upset the bike (I'm not a lightweight). They tell me that I'm not slowing them down, so the pace must be OK. It was interesting to watch Ryan's video and learn that my riding style is not as much of an outlier as I thought.

 

[Larry Fine]

There are many riders riding 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years or more with the same skill set they learned the first 6 months.

I'm in the 50+ years riding group, and I'm still learning. Refusing to do so can be deadly. I took the Ride Like a Pro course a couple of years ago, and I'm still working at improving.

 

[Larry Fine]

At the end the day I have somehow coincidentally gravitated to using the techniques described Ryan's video. I ride most of the twisty and sweeping turns counterbalancing while I sit upright and move the bike under me. I counter sit on occasion if it's a real tight switchback to go through and I'll frequently hold the throttle steady and modulate the speed with the clutch if I'm going back and forth from one switchback to the next.

Just about the same here. I've learned to downshift more to keep the RPMs up to modulate the bike speed better, put a good portion of my weight on my feet, and move the bike around under me.

 

[Sadlsor]

There are many riders riding 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years or more with the same skill set they learned the first 6 months.

And this is what I often think when I see (especially) the cruiser crowd in jeans, t-shirt and leather vest tell me "I've been riding 40 years." Or the sportbike guys with shorts, tank tops and an $800 helmet who think because they can do 140mph in a straight line that they must be good.
I'm thinking, "Do you have 40 years' experience, or is it 1 year experience repeated 40 times?"
I have gotten much better at not being so judgemental, but when I see dudes duck-walking their bikes 100 feet after leaving a red light, or reversing direction in a parking lot with a 47-point turn, I just sigh.
Ya don't know what ya don't know.
But the more you know, the better it gets.
In my never-to-be-humble opinion.

 

[dduelin]

….,But the more you know, the better it gets.

 

[SupraSabre]

And this is what I often think when I see (especially) the cruiser crowd in jeans, t-shirt and leather vest tell me "I've been riding 40 years." Or the sportbike guys with shorts, tank tops and an $800 helmet who think because they can do 140mph in a straight line that they must be good.
I'm thinking, "Do you have 40 years' experience, or is it 1 year experience repeated 40 times?"
...

My question to them would be: "...and how many miles have you ridden in those 40 years?"

Going from bar to bar on a Saturday or Sunday, you really won't put too many miles on in 40 years!

 

[SMSW]

I would have liked to watch Ryan do his 'final exam' from the viewpoint of a judge - like those rodeo videos. Right around the 6'25" mark, he rides toward the camera, stops and puts his left leg out. I know Ryan is 6'3" (or taller), but watching him plant that foot flat so far out was impressive.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

It takes time to get used to it. I started Lane Splitting back in 1971, in SoCal/LA traffic, and been doing it since, long before they made it "legal".

It was interesting to see how many vehicles moved left to make room for you. Here they would move right to squeeze you out.

My neighbour was born and raised in France and rode motorcycles there from a very young age. He has lived here for years. He finds the lack of respect for motorcycles here (North America in general) terrifying. He loves to ride, but refuses to do so here.

 

[Sadlsor]

As is well known, our less challenging driving tests and licensing requirements, coupled with more disposable income to buy cars instead of bikes, and our less prolific mass transportation, all work together to make motorcycles less common and less accepted than in much of the rest of the world.

 

[Moto-Charlie]

My neighbour was born and raised in France and rode motorcycles there from a very young age. He has lived here for years. He finds the lack of respect for motorcycles here (North America in general) terrifying. He loves to ride, but refuses to do so here.

The difference in "respect" for motorcycles between the USA and Europe where I ride (France, Northern Italy, Austria, Germany and Switzerland) is indeed worlds apart. European car drivers keep an eye out for you, move over to let you pass, don't get rattled if you go to the head of a stopped line of traffic and are willing to share the road in a way that works for everyone. It is a much more pleasurable riding experience and safer as a result. I have several riders on my tours who have the financial means to ride in Europe every year such that they only motorcycle there because they consider the USA to be unsafe.

 

[dduelin]

The only thing that I can see in that video that might be controversial is that it doesn’t make clear that counterbalancing is necessary only at slow speeds when the maneuvers performed between the cones are at slow speeds where there’s not enough centrifugal force to balance the motorcycle.

The takeaway for some viewers will be that it’s perfectly all right to ride dirtbike style on the street by pushing the bike down and away from you when you’re cornering. Pushing the bike down and away from you when cornering at medium to high speeds is on the street is counterproductive to safety and the ability for the tires to maintain traction at their limit. We want to be able to keep a few degrees of lean angle in reserve for the surprises that linger around blind corners like other vehicles, dogs, pedestrians, debris, sand or fluid in the roadway. At times it might be necessary to tighten up the radius of the turn in order to cut inside of one of those surprises and if you have the motorcycle pushed down and away from you in the middle of that corner you have less ability to cope with tightening the arc of turn. There is absolutely no need to lean off the motorcycle like Marc Marquez, as used in the example, when riding quick or even fast on the street. Just keeping your body upright in the saddle with the inside shoulder and arm dropped low into the corner keeps you above the bike and you are not compromising sight lines and you can still use your mirrors while still saving a few degrees of lean angle. He made it look as if you’re hanging off the bike with your head down around the mirror. He also mentions that police motors are required to be pushed beyond the limits of front or rear traction at times between the cones but this is not the case on the street running 30, 40, 50 or more miles per hour. When riding above the slow speeds of range maneuvers there’s plenty of centrifugal force to balance the motorcycle in the turns.

 

[Valker]

Except for the fact that countersteering is required at ANY speed to at least initiate a turn, I get your point. Your speed determines how long (duration) the countersteering needs to be held.

 

[MidLife]

Except for the fact that countersteering is required at ANY speed to at least initiate a turn, I get your point. Your speed determines how long (duration) the countersteering needs to be held.

...except....that counterbalancing and countersteering are two different things.