#1 cylinder out of spec on my 2007 ST1300 with 225,000 miles

[970mike]

I think you made a couple typos in your post, right?

There's no such thing as a 1.570mm shim, it would be 1.575mm and stamped as 1.58. I suspect that's what you had and just typed it in wrong. The 1.525mm replacement would inrease the clearance by 0.05mm, or about 0.002", which makes sense given that you were too tight initially.

The second set is the one that really sounds odd. There's no such thing as 1.590, it would be either 1.575 or 1.600, but I suspect you really had a 1.500mm in there and its another typo. Going to 1.450mm increases the clearance by 0.05mm.

BTW, I used to always swap shims back in the day, but haven't had to adjust much lately because I don't ride as much as I used to. Are shops still doing that, or did you just get lucky, or go to a place where they know you well?

Those were the measured size of the shims, not sure what they were originally. I would guess that they were 1.575 and 1.600. The local Honda shop told me after asking on the phone if they had shims in stock to just bring in my old ones and they would exchange them for the size I needed. I was ready to buy the shims.

 

[PhotoDoctor]

You Had to go and check !

One of our members here has over 325K on his ST1300 that he bought new and has never had to adjust the valves - and he has also never checked them

 

[dwalby]

Those were the measured size of the shims, not sure what they were originally. I would guess that they were 1.575 and 1.600. The local Honda shop told me after asking on the phone if they had shims in stock to just bring in my old ones and they would exchange them for the size I needed. I was ready to buy the shims.

if that's the case then going from 1.590mm to 1.450mm increases the clearance by 0.14mm or 0.0055" (five and a half thousandths). Was it really that tight?

 

[ST-Traveler]

I had one tight exhaust valve , and did the math wrong, then ordered the wrong size--I had put the cam chain and sprocket all back together then rechecked- It all had to come back apart .. OMG how nerve racking in the first place then to have to go back in..I wasn't pleasant to be around for a few hours... . All the other valves were in spec - thank goodness.

 

[970mike]

if that's the case then going from 1.590mm to 1.450mm increases the clearance by 0.14mm or 0.0055" (five and a half thousandths). Was it really that tight?

Yes it was that tight.

 

[970mike]

I had one tight exhaust valve , and did the math wrong, then ordered the wrong size--I had put the cam chain and sprocket all back together then rechecked- It all had to come back apart .. OMG how nerve racking in the first place then to have to go back in..I wasn't pleasant to be around for a few hours... . All the other valves were in spec - thank goodness.

I went back and fourth doing the math several times to make sure of my numbers, I did it right as all valves are now back in spec. I was worried about making a mistake and having to redo this would not be fun as this was my first adjustment and I was worried about messing something up.

 

[dwalby]

Yes it was that tight.

And it was an exhaust valve, right?

Since tight exhaust is the worst case valve scenario, possibly resulting in a burned valve, its information like this that makes me wonder how important valve adjustment really is.

Normally you catch them when they're off by a thousandth or two and re-adjust. If yours was running for (how long?) that tight and didn't burn (I'm assuming, you have normal compression, right?) then it seems like there's a lot more margin built into the system than is advertised.

 

[970mike]

And it was an exhaust valve, right?

Since tight exhaust is the worst case valve scenario, possibly resulting in a burned valve, its information like this that makes me wonder how important valve adjustment really is.

Normally you catch them when they're off by a thousandth or two and re-adjust. If yours was running for (how long?) that tight and didn't burn (I'm assuming, you have normal compression, right?) then it seems like there's a lot more margin built into the system than is advertised.

Yes it was an exhaust valve. When I took the measurement on that the left #1 valve was .152 and the shim measured 1.57 and the right valve on #1 was .203 and the shim measured 1.59 so both were off by a bunch.

No burned valve that I am aware of as the bike is still running strong. The last valve check was about 50,000 miles ago as they have not been moving since new.

 

[Ralf_CT]

When I took the measurement on that the left #1 valve was .152 and the shim measured 1.57 and the right valve on #1 was .203 and the shim measured 1.59 so both were off by a bunch.

What is the procedure on these engines to check the clearances, how tight does the feeler gauge have to be? I ask, because during my time with Jaguar in the 80s, the XK engines (buckets and shims) had tiny valve clearances (0.004"/0.006"). When rebuilding a head on the bench, the only way to ensure the clearances were correct and the head would be quiet was to force a feeler gauge between the cam lobe and bucket, the clearance was spot on just before the valve lifted off its seat - not easy with such a thin feeler gauge.

 

[paulcb]

What is the procedure on these engines to check the clearances, how tight does the feeler gauge have to be? I ask, because during my time with Jaguar in the 80s, the XK engines (buckets and shims) had tiny valve clearances (0.004"/0.006"). When rebuilding a head on the bench, the only way to ensure the clearances were correct and the head would be quiet was to force a feeler gauge between the cam lobe and bucket, the clearance was spot on just before the valve lifted off its seat - not easy with such a thin feeler gauge.

You need to be able to slide the gauge in without compressing the valve spring, on a dead cold engine. If it doesn't go through with only a slight push, it's too big. I start small, and move up until I can't get one in, then determine if the next size down is loose or snug to estimate the actual clearance... is it closer to the small or big one.

 

[dduelin]

What is the procedure on these engines to check the clearances, how tight does the feeler gauge have to be? I ask, because during my time with Jaguar in the 80s, the XK engines (buckets and shims) had tiny valve clearances (0.004"/0.006"). When rebuilding a head on the bench, the only way to ensure the clearances were correct and the head would be quiet was to force a feeler gauge between the cam lobe and bucket, the clearance was spot on just before the valve lifted off its seat - not easy with such a thin feeler gauge.

Just a slight drag on the feeler.

 

[Al Gully]

The way I explain to people what the feeler gauge should feel like when measuring is its like pulling a piece of paper out from a telephone book.
Now who is that old to remember a telephone book or yellow pages.

 

[diferg]

I always measure to tight. so paulcb's method is what I have to do. Take many measurements changing engine position. suprising how many "out of spec " readings turn out to be ok.

 

[dwalby]

if you have to force the feeler gauge in, then the next smaller size is the correct one. It should slide in and out with no effort.

If I can get the next larger size in with a little extra effort, I note that on my measurement sheet with a minus (-) mark, indicating its slightly smaller than the nominal size I recorded. I don't think that means anything in the scheme of things, but just reminds me next time that it was a marginal measurement between two sizes.

 

[diferg]

feeler gages are, in my opinion are a very sloppy hit or miss measurement, but i cant figure out a way to set up a last word dial indicator to check valve clearance. could remove cams and use lead wires or plastigage, but i really hate to disturb bearings ( that could open up several cans of worms!) so i will use multiple readings with feeler gages and don't forget to rotate engine each time.

 

[Flatbroke]

What is the smallest shim size that can be used?

 

[970mike]

What is the smallest shim size that can be used?

Honda lists a 1.200mm, I am not sure what any aftermarket shims would have available.

 

[Flatbroke]

Honda lists a 1.200mm, I am not sure what any aftermarket shims would have available.

Awesome. There is hope after 1.45. Exhaust side was tight at 59k. Both sides

 

[Kevcules]

No cost at all for the new shims from my local Honda Dealer, after doing the math on the two exhaust valve shims I needed to replace one that was 1.590mm with one that is 1.450mm the other valve needed to change out the 1.570mm shim with one that was 1.525mm. This worked great as both valves are now in spec.

The Honda dealer let me exchange my old ones for new ones in the right size.

Good dealership! Do you bring them any work? My local dealership looked at me like I had three heads when I mentioned swapping shims with them. They said if I had them do the job, they would have swapped. The mechanic told me they are only 2-3 dollars each. When I went to buy them, they were $10 each, but I got them for $8 each. Buying aftermarket shims, I can get 5 of the same size for $18 after taxes.

It seems these engines most of the time don't need much valve clearance adjusting. My 08 with 47,000 kms needed 13 out of 16 shims changed. I had 6 below min spec and 7 right at min spec. I shimmed them all to the middle/high side. Now I'm convinced I'm good for a very long time.

 

[970mike]

Good dealership! Do you bring them any work? My local dealership looked at me like I had three heads when I mentioned swapping shims with them. They said if I had them do the job, they would have swapped. The mechanic told me they are only 2-3 dollars each. When I went to buy them, they were $10 each, but I got them for $8 each. Buying aftermarket shims, I can get 5 of the same size for $18 after taxes.

It seems these engines most of the time don't need much valve clearance adjusting. My 08 with 47,000 kms needed 13 out of 16 shims changed. I had 6 below min spec and 7 right at min spec. I shimmed them all to the middle/high side. Now I'm convinced I'm good for a very long time.

I do buy a few parts there and had my water pump rebuilt there at 123,000 miles under warranty. I was all set to buy the shims but they told me to come in an exchange them.