So does this mean that you follow the service manual and use a Torque Wrench of the oil filter too?
1st clutch & brake bleed advise needed
- Thread starter Steppin Up
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I agree the service manual is not perfect has has noted errors in it.So does this mean that you follow the service manual and use a Torque Wrench of the oil filter too?
However, I have been using the mighty vac tool and the service manual sequence, actually I use the post MileHigh did on brake bleeding as it has the sequence there.
I have NEVER had anything but great braking on my ST or felt like the brakes were fading or the lever too spongy...
You are very meticulous in what you do and I would never match my bike maint skills to yours as I would surely loose, you have ways of doing things that are above and beyond what is necessary which is great but for many of us it's not always feasible. At some tech events it wouldn't make sense to leave your bike overnight for a brake bleed.
I'd like to try the motion pro bleeder as I've never used one so I'm open to trying things with different tools if it can make the process easier but it's not the only way to do a brake bleed.
Larry (Igofar) has asked for my brand new Motion Pro brake bleeder and I am sending it to him via USPS.
The Motion Pro brake bleeder is not an air brake bleeder and I won't use it on my ST1300 because it won't completely drain the old brake fluid from the system prior to adding new fluid.
While I am not a mechanic I am an ex motorcycle racer and I do know that the brake fluid itself is what absorbs water over time (from humidity in the air). That is why there is a time interval on brake fluid changes.
It is that water within the old brake fluid, when heated with heavy braking, that will turn to air and expand and make the brakes spongy and possibly subject to failure at the time you need them most. Since I depend on my brakes to stop this 600+lb motorcycle when traveling at 75mph I will only use an air brake bleeder and follow the instructions in the Service Manual.
YMMV.
Brake fluid is hygroscopic -- it absorbs and retains water:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/brakes/brake-problems/air-in-brake-line.htm
The Motion Pro brake bleeder is not an air brake bleeder and I won't use it on my ST1300 because it won't completely drain the old brake fluid from the system prior to adding new fluid.
While I am not a mechanic I am an ex motorcycle racer and I do know that the brake fluid itself is what absorbs water over time (from humidity in the air). That is why there is a time interval on brake fluid changes.
It is that water within the old brake fluid, when heated with heavy braking, that will turn to air and expand and make the brakes spongy and possibly subject to failure at the time you need them most. Since I depend on my brakes to stop this 600+lb motorcycle when traveling at 75mph I will only use an air brake bleeder and follow the instructions in the Service Manual.
YMMV.
Brake fluid is hygroscopic -- it absorbs and retains water:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/brakes/brake-problems/air-in-brake-line.htm
ROTFLOL. That would probably work.
Okay, Okay, you are a true master mechanic.
Now I need to decide if I should keep my Motion Pro brake bleeder...
I'll send it anyway.
Okay, Okay, you are a true master mechanic.
Now I need to decide if I should keep my Motion Pro brake bleeder...
I'll send it anyway.
Dang, I could have saved thousands of dollars on tools and training by using howstuffworks.com :nuts1:
Regardless of what method you choose to use...Its better to remove the fluid from the mastercylinder (mity vac, MP tool, or tampon)
before you bleed all the fluid from the system. Why would you want to pull all that nasty stuff through the system?
This is even more important when bleed your clutch.
I've always found that removing the fluid from the master cylinder, cleaning it out, and then refilling it with fresh fluid, then bleeding the lines until clear fluid comes out, to work better at getting all the stuff out of the line. Flushing it out with fresh fluid seems to get all the old fluid out, rather than just draining it out and filling it up, and purging air.
You do realize that the only reason this thread continues is because its raining outside right ? :rain1:
All my responses were made in a good fun, with no ill will towards anyone
We all learn by sharing and talking about stuff.
Thank you very much for the tool. I will use it as a training tool in my weekend tech events.
Now where'd I put that dang rain suit?
All my responses were made in a good fun, with no ill will towards anyone
We all learn by sharing and talking about stuff.
Thank you very much for the tool. I will use it as a training tool in my weekend tech events.
Now where'd I put that dang rain suit?
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Larry, need to know how pumping the front lever gets the SMC to pump fluid without the front wheel turning. Inquiring minds.
After using one at John's a couple weeks a go, I'm a believer in the MP brake bleeder. Need to order one for myself. Need the answer to the above question as my 01 is an ABS model. I've used the MityVac up 'til now.
After using one at John's a couple weeks a go, I'm a believer in the MP brake bleeder. Need to order one for myself. Need the answer to the above question as my 01 is an ABS model. I've used the MityVac up 'til now.
Good Question! I believe the reason the manual instructs us to remove and tilt the left caliper, is to get the casting bump for the SMC to the highest spot, so when we do bleed, it will also bleed fluid out of the SMC also. I've also tried pumping or pushing the smc forward during bleeding, but found it did nothing at all. When I removed the SMC a few months back to replace in innards, only about a thimble full of fluid came out, and it was clean fresh fluid, so I'm guessing the bleeding routine takes this into account in the tilt process. The corrosion that causes the SMC to fail, IMHO, most times happens in front of the plunger, underneath the boot, just inside the cylinder. The plunger then drags, or gets stuck. Now once this happens, the fluid may go bad as some have reported. But I bleed my systems about every 6 months, and have not found any goop inside the system so far.
As far as ABS non ABS, the bleeding routine is the same.
I've used the MP tool, or manual method, with both ABS and Non ABS ST's as well as wings with no problems.
My GL1800 manual goes into much more detail in the bleeding process, stating that you can bleed it either with a vacume pump, or if one is not available, using the manual method. It states either method is acceptable.
There are no comments in any of the manuals suggesting that there is a separate method for bleeding the SMC.
I've also heard several folks swear that the PCV cannot be bled without a vacume pump as well!
Simply put a hose on the fitting, crack the bleeder, and push down on the foot pedal a couple times and see what happens. I truly don't understand why folks have problems with the PCV either.
Please feel free to PM me if you'd like to discuss it in more detail. I feel I was truly at a loss by not meeting you in person at the tech event. I've heard you are the TRUE ST WHISPERER :bow1:
isn't this the same thing as the motion pro model?
http://www.cyclegear.com/eng/product/brake_bleeder_tool/web1006914
http://www.cyclegear.com/eng/product/brake_bleeder_tool/web1006914
It would appear so, good find!
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It can get confusing. The front lever is not hydraulically linked to the rear pistons but indirectly the SMC applies rear brake when the front lever is pulled.Why???
I am new to a linked brake system. All this brake talk has me wondering about something. The front and rear brakes on the ST are not hydraulically linked. Right ? SMC is what activates rear brake. So when you press rear pedal and it applies front brakes, what controls the amount of force that is applied to front brakes ? PCV?
The rear pedal is linked hydraulically to the front center pistons. When we apply rear brake there is a delay valve between the pedal and the two front calipers so the rear brake is applied a split second before the front brakes. This helps reduce fork dive and settles the suspension down. The PCV is plumbed into the circuit between the SMC and the rear caliper.
Well said
OP
OP
Thanks for all the replies. I have learned alot. I still think I may try the motion-pro next time though.
I just can't imagine getting much contamination of the new fluid if you clean master cylinders and refill with new fluid. Before flushing the lines with new fluid.
I just can't imagine getting much contamination of the new fluid if you clean master cylinders and refill with new fluid. Before flushing the lines with new fluid.
Thank you.Thanks for all the replies. I have learned alot. I still think I may try the motion-pro next time though.
I just can't imagine getting much contamination of the new fluid if you clean master cylinders and refill with new fluid. Before flushing the lines with new fluid.
UPDATE: First and foremost, I would like to publicly thank RCS for the Motion Pro Bleeding tool. It arrived today.
Now, to pay it forward, the first person to PM me, will get a free brake flush and bleed. BYOB-Brake fluid - (local residents only)
Also, now since RCS was kind enough to donate this tool, if anyone would like to learn how to bleed their
clutch or brakes, we now have a training setup.
Please PM me if interested.
Now lets all give a great big round of applause to RCS!
Thank you.
Now, to pay it forward, the first person to PM me, will get a free brake flush and bleed. BYOB-Brake fluid - (local residents only)
Also, now since RCS was kind enough to donate this tool, if anyone would like to learn how to bleed their
clutch or brakes, we now have a training setup.
Please PM me if interested.
Now lets all give a great big round of applause to RCS!
Thank you.
did the motion pro tool work or do you still need to use the mity vac?, im somewhat confused as to the last post
Who are you asking?
Hmm very interesting thread. Seems like there is agreement that manually bleeding the brakes works. Not knowing what the Motion Pro was I looked it up. As it is a simple one way valve which eliminated the need of one person to be closing and opening the bleeder seems to make perfect sense. Also seems the flushing the system with fresh fluid may be better then draining??? I think I will order one