2006 ST1300 / Notchy Shifting

[LegoMan]

It definitely feels like something is being hit halfway through the shift. My older son had two different VTX1300's, and my younger son has a Shadow 750, and all three of them would shift seamlessly from one gear to the next, using the same technique that I do on my ST1300. It may not be something that can be corrected due to the design. I just know that it lessens the enjoyment of riding the bike. If it only happened once in a great while, I'd probably blame it on me or just not worry about it.

 

[lonney]

Legodude have you tried shifting without the clutch ? It sounds a little scary but ive done it ALOT and when done right its smoother than using the clutch and it would eliminate clutch and shifting fork issues . I used the Rotella t6 with no problems in my FZ1 but when i put it in the ST it acted as though i had a burnt clutch and a bent shifting fork. I wish i could use the Rotella its cheap and its everwhere !! If you havent tried Amsoil give it a try if that doesnt work i think you need a new clutch. Good luck

 

[lonney]

Or a bent shifting fork again good luck

 

[dduelin]

Post #21. Let's rule out the clutch.

 

[lonney]

Im sorry i just went back and read the whole thread im wondering if they installed your cluch plates in the right order metal/ composite .

 

[drrod]

https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?72657-How-to-clean-amp-lube-gearshift-linkage

Just a thought. Sorry if it has already been mentioned.

Rod

 

[LegoMan]

Let us know if that helps...
Have you checked the play you have in the rear wheel / u-joint? I wonder if your u-joint is starting to wear enough to cause alignment issues when you shift?

You're going to have the explain the connection to me on this one!

 

[LegoMan]

How smooth are you expecting it to shift? I often feel a little catch in the gears when shifting. On at least half of my shifts I feel nothing but the other half is just a little notchy. Using the Delo over the Rotella Syn helps quite a bit. I would like them all to be butter smooth but that has never been the case on this bike since new. I ride a 2006 with 58K on the odometer. It would be interesting to hear how many members bikes shift butter smooth an all shifts. I know some of it is the technique used to shift. Some bikes you don't have to do much to make it butter smooth but my ST is not one of them. It is not very forgiving of poor shift technique.

I've ridden enough other bikes over the years to know how a bike should shift. Mine is clearly "hitting" on something when the shift lever is halfway between the start and end of the travel. I swap bikes with my older son's VTX1300 and younger son's Shadow 750. I shift using the exact same technique on their bikes and I feel absolutely nothing hitting between gears. Since a number of people have mentioned "notchy" shifting, most likely it's just a design flaw and it will never be resolved.

 

[LegoMan]

Are you getting lazy while shifting? Meaning are you pulling the lever in just enough to engauge the clutch then shifting where ever you happen to be rpm wise? I paid close attention to mine this morning trying to get it to do what yours is doing, and it did when I didn't load the lever, or tried to shift at unloaded rpm. Try doing this: pause a little just before you shift after pulling In the lever, make sure your rolling the throttle completely off when shifting, and just before you shift blip the throttle to raise the rpm to help sync everything.
Let us know what happens.
One last thing iirc you said you were using 5-40 oil prior, and now the oem 10w-30 semi syn hond brand oil.
You may want to try the 15w-40 delo on your next oil change.

When I shift, the lever hits the grip every time. That's just my habit. Again, I can shift other model bikes the exact same way, and they drop cleanly into the next gear.

 

[LegoMan]

Im sorry i just went back and read the whole thread im wondering if they installed your cluch plates in the right order metal/ composite .

I know the technician that worked on my bike very well. He's meticulous about everything. He has close to 30 years under his belt and attends trainings on a regular basis to keep up with the latest technology.

 

[LegoMan]

Thanks for all of the input guys. I feel like we're exhausting the possibilities. The basic facts are:

- I pull the clutch all the way to the grip when shifting
- The clutch fiber plates and six compression springs were just replaced.
- The clutch fluid was just replaced.
- The oil was just changed using the Honda GN conventional oil. I'm sticking with Honda's recommendation for now to keep the variables to a minimum.
- It doesn't do it all the time. There are times when I shift that it feels very smooth, but over the last year or so, it's happened more frequently. The only time it virtually never does it is after I've been on the highway for a while. It will downshift as I exit the highway very smoothly and upshift a few times nicely before getting chunky again.

It's sad if anyone feels like they have to develop a "technique" to compensate for a design flaw. I have to do that to compensate for the "fuel cutoff" feature Honda built into it. My local dealer typically has an open house every May. If they have an ST1300 available, I plan to "test ride" it to see how it compares to mine. My extended warranty runs out at the end of June, so I want to pursue this from every angle before the clock runs out!

 

[BakerBoy]

Legoman, I've been watching this thread closely and have to say I didn't expect the clutch rebuild to solve the problem (hoping, but not expecting).

I suspect the shifting dog, gear thingies, or the linkage, still. There have been quite a few who've reported linkage problems. While there may be issues inside of the tranny, proactively swapping out the linkage ball joints is a relatively cheap and easy thing to do next. And if that doesn't solve it, I'd move on to another bike (if it were mine).

 

[dduelin]

Respectfully, there indeed might be something wrong with your transmission if the problem is intermittent but of the different types of bikes I've owned some required their own technique to shift smoothly each time. The bikes you mention, I've owned both a VTX1300 and a 750 Shadow, and they rev much slower and have more flywheel effect. They liked slow, deliberate shifts. Some of this is by design to achieve the desired V twin clunk like the Harley ka-thunck noises that define this type of bike (slow revving V twin cruisers and metric cruisers) and some of it is because the engine speed is slower and the gears are spinning slower in the transmission. The ST shifts a bit different. It can rev almost twice as fast as the Shadow and VTX can and has much more horsepower and torque. Aside from starting in 1st from a stop, most motorcycles don't require pulling the clutch to the grip and doing so may even cause problems as it slows the shift sequence and allows the spinning gears on the two countershafts to get out of synch.

Here are two videos that are linked that illustrate advanced riding techniques. I find them illustrative because one features the ST1100 and the other a sporty Aprilla and they are just out street riding - not speed shifting race track riders. The shift technique is much the same....preloading the shift lever, quick hand movements, and very little clutch disengagement.

http://advgrrl.com/2013/11/17/smoother-gear-changing-gear-shifting-on-your-motorcycle/

 

[lonney]

Good luck legoman that has to be gettinng on your nerves!!

 

[LegoMan]

Maybe the ST should have been designed with one of these gear systems....

 

[Don B]

Good one! All of these except the last 2 or 3 are CVT transmissions - the speed of the driven gear(s) continuously varies w/respect to the drive gear.

 

[Don B]

Done right it feels like an automatic transmission, nearly seamless. Basically preload the shift lever with your toe as if you are trying to select the next gear and accelerate smartly to at least 4,000 rpm and roll off the throttle really quick then back on. When the throttle rolls off the pressure on the engaged gear goes away and the preloaded shift lever engages the next one. Try it in a 2-3 or 3-4 shift. You won't hurt it.

This is basically how I shift almost 100% of the time, except that I often upshift at less than 4,000 rpm; it's not that critical, as long as the engine is turning fast enough after the shift that it won't be under-revving. I typically make the 4-5 shift clutch-free as well, sometimes the 1-2 shift, but that gear change is usually smoother for me if I use the clutch. I normally do all my downshifting clutchless as well, simply a quick blip of the throttle while deccelerating with pressure applied to the shifter. I occasionally downshift from 2-N without the clutch, but that takes a little more finesse, since you really don't want to inadvertently downshift from 2-1, with or without the clutch as that can be a rude awakening. One thing to remember about clutchless shifting that you mentioned is that when done correctly, all you're doing is unloading the torque being applied between the engine and the rear wheel, allowing the gear change to complete. You're doing exactly the same thing by pulling the lever on the handlebar to disengage the clutch, come to think of it.

 

[Pete in PA]

Is it a 2006 thing????

I also have a 2006 from new, now 45k miles on it. I've never been impressed with how it shifts. This with all the talk here of how smooth The ST1300 shifts. I've cleaned and lubed the ball joints in the linkage, (You know you can adjust that linkage to set shift lever height right? This could help.) Clutch is always clean and bled, Tried different oils, etc.

I even had 2 shops test drive it 3 times under warranty and they said no problems. I don't think they wanted to rip the bike apart.

I also feel the distinct 2 step notch when I shift. I think it's shift fork or gear dog related. Mine will also "get lost" between shifts occasionally. Not a false neutral but the lever goes dead. It won't grab the next gear without first unloading the power.

I also feel I shouldn't need to be concentrating on shift technique all the time. although when I don't is when I get that dead shifter lever thing.

IGOFAR: On the clutch rebuild which way for the sharp edges? That's a new one for me. Wish I had known this on my last 3 clutch installs.

 

[woodybelle]

I also feel the distinct 2 step notch when I shift. I think it's shift fork or gear dog related. Mine will also "get lost" between shifts occasionally. Not a false neutral but the lever goes dead. It won't grab the next gear without first unloading the power.

My 2006 is the same as yours in these regards. About half the time it is like butter and the other half it is like yours. I do believe however that the "lost" situation was improved when I went to Delo oil, hasn't happened since changing oil as far as I can remember.

 

[Pete in PA]

My 2006 is the same as yours in these regards. About half the time it is like butter and the other half it is like yours. I do believe however that the "lost" situation was improved when I went to Delo oil, hasn't happened since changing oil as far as I can remember.

We need an oil choice for best shifting poll.