4 drops in 6 months!

[pixguy]

I'm starting to wonder if the ST is just too much for me. 4 drops since I bought my '03 in June! Analyzing the drops: 3 were when I was stopped and started with the front wheel turned. The fourth was the result of a quick stop at low speed in a parking lot when a woman blew through a stop sign in front of me. I slammed on the brakes but couldn't get my foot down in time. No damage until this last one last Sunday at a stop sign when I just couldn't ease her down and I broke the mirror glass, damaged the mirror housing, and scratched the right saddlebag. Two guys I was riding with helped me pick up the bike and it was obvious they think I should get a cruiser that will be easier to flat foot at stops. I've had the seat customized and lowered and I wear thick soled boots to make it easier to get most of my foot down but it's still obvious I have a problem. It's a shame because I really like the bike but it's no good if I'm nervous or tentative every time I ride. One or two drops, maybe, but four! Gads! I feel like a real dunce.

 

[970mike]

Marv,

Don't get in the panic mode yet. You just need to be aware that once that bike gets over center it is very hard to keep it upright. I would think maybe you may need to spend some more time doing slow speed parking lot training to get use to the ST. I hope you find something that will help you out. Good luck.

 

[b.carez]

I think that you will find that it will get easier and easier to balance at stops. I am inseam challenged and I shift to the left a little so I can flat foot on that side when I stop. Try to be off your front brake by the time you come to a complete stop, so your forks don't rebound and make the problem worse.

 

[sennister]

The way I see it the first three would have happened if it was a cruiser or a ST. Either keep the wheel straight when starting or hammer it and pull a wheelie.

As for the quick stop. That happens. Maybe more back brake would have prevented it but these things happen.

It is true that the 1300 is going to be a little more difficult for a rider with short legs. I am lucky as I have 36" inseams and can flat foot the 1300 when it is sitting on the centerstand with the seat in the high position. While I have still dropped my ST (the 1100 not he 1300) the only time I have done that so far was when I first got it. The 1100 was my first street bike and while I grew up riding I took about a 10 year break between riding dirt bikes and getting my first street bike. I would ask how long have you been riding? Is this your first bike or how many miles of experience do you have? Have you taken the MSF BRC or ERC? If not I would recommend them. I took the BRC when I got the 1100. I bought my 1300 this spring, rode it back to MN from AZ and a weekend or two after getting home I was in the MSF ERC with it. It was a great way to get accustomed to a new bike and have someone watch your techniques. I don't think you will be able to find a course this time of year but if I were you I would say to wait until next year. Get into an MSF ERC session in the spring and I think you will gain some confidence in the bike and your techniques. This may be enough to get you over the problems you are having or it may show that the height issue is too much for you to adapt to. The nice thing about the MSF ERC is that it is pretty much going to focus on slower speed maneuvers and reaction skills to address the specific areas that you seem to have problems with.

Hope this helps.

 

[RCS]

Parking lot practice. You can touch the ground. The rest is throttle control. When I first got my ST1300 I spent two weekends in the school parking lot doing stops, turns, donuts. Learned that manuevering the bike is all about throttle control and applying brakes when the bike is straight up and down - until you get very proficient.

 

[pixguy]

Actually, the drops have been while I was stopped, not while I was moving, with the exception of the quick stop when the woman blew the stop sign. After that, I did quite a bit of practicing quick stops in a parking lot. The drops came when I started to move from a stop and it seems like only when I was planning to turn.

 

[Rodneypieon]

I agree with what has already been said too. Particularly the practice part at low speed. The more familiar you get the better you will get. We take two
weeks of training mostly at low speed before they wil lets us ride our harleys.
Tip over bars come in handy too to reduce any damage you might have if
it happens again. I have them on my ST and they come standard on the electra glide it isn't just shiny chrome.

 

[Mark]

Parking lot drops... I have had more than a few... they were all brought about (or precipitated so to speak!) by my use of the front brake instead of the rear brake.
Parking lot practice helped me... lots of parking lot practice....

 

[Joe Rolwing]

I've got five drops in my first year with a 2002 1100, 30" inseam, and just not the upper body strength to stop it once it gets going. My most common element is stopping on an uneven surface, one slopping to the right. I've learned something not to do each time, but there are just so many new opportunities.

 

[st1300r]

The drops came when I started to move from a stop and it seems like only when I was planning to turn.

Don't do that
A little forward motion gives you control.

For slow speed under 5mph work sort of dirt bike it.
Sort of the opposite of hanging off.. lean the bike more than you and sort of sit on top of it.
Keep some gas on and use the friction zone of the clutch and REAR brake to control speed.
Turn your head and look where you want to go, not where you are worried about going.

Practice in a parking lot.

If you can stop ok you've got the hard part of handling the porker licked.

 

[RCS]

Body strength has nothing to do with it.

 

[Firstpeke]

At 5' 7" and a 29" inseam I can relate to your problem....

Practice in low speed balance maneuvering is absolutely the key to this. The need to practice and obtain confidence in your ability is most important.
Once you start to get the feeling that the bike is an extension of yourself rather than something you are perched on, that is when you will start to get confidence in your ability to keep the plot vertical.

Body strength comes in when despite ALL your practice, the bike does does take charge because your tired, or you get a bad footing, or whatever.... at some point you will still tip over.
THEN upper body strength allows you to lower the bike a little slower and prevent more serious damage. DAMHIK. Let's face it, unless your Arnie Shwarzenwotsit, the bike is still going down....

The technique you will find most beneficial has been mentioned, using only the rear brake at low speeds, if the bike is destabilized by using the front brake a tip-over becomes more likely.

When I move off I lift both feet immediately and don't put a foot down until I stop, that way I can use the rear brake right up to the point of being stopped.

I am better in my low speed turns to the right than the left, don't know why, maybe it's a function of the throttle usage at an arm stretch on full lock.
However I can do full lock right turns at the slowest speeds with intermittent stops without putting a foot down and maintain balance.

This does not come overnight, I have been riding for a lot of years and used to teach basic and intermediate riding skills back in the 80's.
I now mentor riders learning to take the advanced riding test.

Practice, Practice, Practice, Practice, Practice and when you have done that, practice some more.
Forward observation when slowing to look for possible problems which will cause you grief if you stop at a certain point.
Concentration on your ride and as I said, practice. KEEP YOUR HEAD UP and look where you want to go, not where you don't want to go....

Don't forget, leave that front brake alone when turning or moving real slow, just feather the rear, slip that clutch and keep some revs on, don't let it bog, if it stalls, you will be picking it up.....

HTH

 

[sennister]

That's a control issue that has little to do with your hight. Any time you loose forward momentum while leaned over you loose the centripital force that is keeping the bike balanced. If you have the room, you need to not panic and get the bike upright before you brake. Or be more aware and causious to avoid having to stop right after taking off. This could still happen on a lower lighter bike. You just have more leaverage to recover from the mistake with a foot down. But it is still a mistake on your part in taking off before fully sure of possible obsticles.

Yeah, that is what I think. While he may have been able to recover on a shorter, lighter bike it still is a sign of a habit that he should work on breaking.

As we all have been saying practice in a parking lot is the best bet. I would still highly encourage a MSF course probably ERC in your case but if you don't have a lot of time on a bike the BRC could be beneficial as well. The difference is that in the basic course you are on their bikes which are small 250cc bikes. The ERC will be done on your bike where the instructor can see what you are doing and maybe give you things to work. The 250cc bikes, while smaller, still use the same core techniques that you need to work on.

I think you would find that most people that have had a tip over have had it happen in a parking lot or in a situation like that. For me I pulled to a stop and was going to back into a parking spot. My foot slipped on some sand when I went to push the bike back and down it went. I knew I wasn't going to save it right away so I let it go.

As for stopping proper technique is to shift to 1st as you are coming to a stop, and lower your left foot to stabilize the bike. This way you keep your foot in the rear brake, are in the proper gear to accelerate if you need to avoid being rearended or whatever. Of course the situation will dictate how you do this. Sometimes the ground may not be level so it is better to put the right foot down to keep the bike vertical. As for starting out the tire should always be straight even if making a right turn you shouldn't be so far out in the intersection that you have to immediately turn before building speed. In most cases you need to get through the pedestrian area before turning. So, build speed while going straight and then initiate the turn.

I also did a lot of practicing with the 1300 when I got it in a parking lot. Though the transition wasn't bad because the 1100 and 1300 are pretty close. It is still important to build a good base of skills before practicing too much. I was lucky because I not only got into an ERC course right after getting my 1300 but with the exception of 1 or 2 bikes they were all ST1100s or ST1300s and the main instructor is a member here that rides a ST1300 so he could give pointers a little more directed to our bike specifically though the core skills that are worked on are the same with all bikes.

I guess my main concern is that while practicing is good, it doesn't help to practice a bad technique because it will be even harder to break it later if you take a course.

I should mention that the ERC class isn't that expensive. I think about $75 or so. It is 1/2 day. Also you are going through several drills in the course, all of which are optional. If there is anything you are not comfortable in doing you can pass on it. For instance the figure 8 is one that people may be the most hesitant about doing. I was a little nervous but was able to easily pull it off in the smaller box for the small bikes.

 

[pixguy]

I've taken the basic riding course offered by MSF. I think the big issue is keeping the wheel straight as I start from a stop. This last drop occurred because I got anxious about keeping up with the other two guys with whom I was riding. We were returning from the ride and were going through a residential neighborhood and they were sort of "rolling through" the stop signs. I was coming to a full stop with my foot down each time, then rushing to catch up so I was getting a little anxious as I said. However, that isn't really an excuse at all; it's still my job to control my bike. As I think about it, there might actually be two issues here: One involves basic bike control and the other is riding with others who can inadvertently affect my riding in one way or another.

 

[pixguy]

Oh, I also spend about an hour a week in a local church parking lot in the evening when no one is there. My slow speed handling isn't all that bad, though I'd like to get my U turns tighter. Someone suggested contacting Race Tech about lowering the bike. I did that and it can be done, though they recommend no more than an inch of lowering. Their Gold Valve kit and a replacement rear shock would be $900-$1,000 and I would have to take the bike apart and send them the forks and shock. However, the more I look at it, I'm not sure that's the issue here.

 

[chesthing]

Check your steering head bearings for notchiness, if worn or loose they can cause a bike to be a real handfull at slow speeds.

 

[sennister]

I've taken the basic riding course offered by MSF. I think the big issue is keeping the wheel straight as I start from a stop. This last drop occurred because I got anxious about keeping up with the other two guys with whom I was riding. We were returning from the ride and were going through a residential neighborhood and they were sort of "rolling through" the stop signs. I was coming to a full stop with my foot down each time, then rushing to catch up so I was getting a little anxious as I said. However, that isn't really an excuse at all; it's still my job to control my bike. As I think about it, there might actually be two issues here: One involves basic bike control and the other is riding with others who can inadvertently affect my riding in one way or another.

This can be an issue when going on rides with others. We typically say everyone should ride their own ride. If you come to a turn and the rider behind you has fallen behind or has been separated wait for him/her and then proceed. The people ahead of you should do the same. That way people can ride as fast as they feel comfortable with. If the group is really big where this is a problem split it up into a slower group that wants to look at the scenery and a faster group that wants to risk a ticket.

The idea of taking a ride is not to cause anxiety but to be relaxing. As you probably have noticed, this has caused you to loose concentration and you had a few slip ups.

It is good that you took the BRC. Now I would say take the ERC. Maybe mention to the instructor ahead of time the areas where you feel the weakest. While the ERC is Experienced Rider Course, don't let the name fool you into thinking you need to be a seasoned veteran to take it. The big difference in the course is that it doesn't have the classroom time. Many of the training scenarios are the same or very close to what you did on the small bikes. However this time you are taking the training on your bike. They expect you to know the real basics like how to start your bike and where the controls are and what they do. They will likely ask you to do things like use all your fingers on your hand controls which you may or may not do normally. They will also likely ask you to over exaggerate turning your head to show where you are looking. As mentioned by someone else your bike will go where you look in a corner. So doing those U turns and figure 8's really crank your head around. I do this still and it really helps. I am to the point on the 1300 where I am comfortable at 5-10mph to be dragging the pegs doing U-turns.

Personally I take some form of driver's training every 2-3 years. That can be in the form of Cage training or Motorcycle training. These are always professionally taught courses on closed circuits. I have taken everything from MSF BRC to Department of Defense Anti-terrorism Driving School which teaches advance skills in protecting VIPs in very difficult environments and road conditions. That was my favorite course that I have taken and by far the longest. I would love to take it again.

 

[Nevada]

There's one other possible factor that hasn't been mentioned yet. It concerns "what happens when I stop?" You said you are wearing thicker soled boots. Have you noticed your boots hanging up on the pegs, which can lead to not getting a foot down in time even when everything else is perfect.

 

[Papa]

You dropped your bike?????????????crackupclap2::clap2::clap2:crackupwoocrackupcrackupcrackupcrackupcrackup:clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2:crackupcrackup
I have too.

 

[Roseknight]

:biker:
If you cant get both feet down solid.. dont try to..
30 inch inseam here... can tip toe on both sides or flat foot on one...
I stop with one (left) flat footed and right on the rear brake..


All that said I have still dropped bikes.. ussally practicing parking lot/cone killing/obstacle course work
Not the ST yet :bow1: but I have the tip over bars on there for when it happens.. :