40-Amp Upgrade question.

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I would like to clarify something here, please:

Does every '96-on ST1100 come with an adapter plate, or is it only needed for upgrading on the older bikes?
 

John OoSTerhuis

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Could the 28amp unit be modified into an adaptor plate and shaft for the 40amp unit?
Short answer: no
Does every '96-on ST1100 come with an adapter plate
Yes, but it’s not an adapter, it’s a separate design, different than the Alternator Shaft Assembly used by the older, oil-cooled 28amper. They do however have a number of parts common to both designs that can be transferred as part of assembling the unit the 40amper uses to engage the engine flywheel. These are the split gears and flywheel and a washers, nut and bearing. With a 40amper’s plate, shaft, and bearing and the 28amper’s parts you assemble a working Alternator Shaft Assembly that plugs into the engine and then into which is plugged the air-cooled 40amp Alternator unit. Standby for a picture.

John
 

John OoSTerhuis

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FWIW, here is my alt upgrade gallery over on ST-Riders.net
The 28amper picture posted above is from that album. Compare it to this one of the 40amper. Note that the parts under and to the left of the splined shaft are those from the 28amper.


Edit:
0B9E748A-191C-421B-942C-328B79C70812.jpeg
 
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John OoSTerhuis

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And here are the two system’s parts, old over new, which I hope clears things up.
Edit: inserting image again a different way:
6D1A0F1E-9647-4185-8C24-63C6964B635A.jpeg
 
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And here are the two system’s parts, old over new, which I hope clears things up.
No pic, but I looked more closely there. So, just to make sure I understand:

1. The 40a alternator has an O-ring seal to the plate, and the plate has an O-ring seal to the engine case; correct?

2. The extension shaft with the bearing "mimics" the shaft that is part of the 28s alternator; correct?

3. Every 40a-equipped bike has both the plate and the extension shaft from the factory; correct?

4. At present, the shaft and bearing are available, but the 3-hole bearing retainer plate is not; correct?
 

John OoSTerhuis

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“Yes” is the answer to all your questions, Larry.

I don’t know why the pictures are disappearing from my posts after a while. Go directly to my gallery link and you’ll see them there. In the meantime I’ll reload them a different way.
John
 
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“Yes” is the answer to all your questions, Larry.
Thank you!

The two O-rings had me confused, until I looked at the non-machined side of the plate again, and realized the inside of that circumference was also machined for the alternator's O-ring. That's something I'd need to relate to a duplicator if I find one.
 

John OoSTerhuis

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Free for the price of postage, one 28amp system complete Alternator Shaft Assembly, one with parts for the alternator upgrade removed.
D99775F5-2455-433A-A339-DC2A5286FAA8.jpeg
Its splined shaft runs all the way through to the small bearing on the end (that rides inside the inner end of the stator.

I gave my serviceable stator away many years ago.

John
 
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John, neither assembly has anything a 40-amp alternator uses or needs, except the split gear, correct? Just educating myself.
 

rwthomas1

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OK, here is my idea: Cut down 28amp alternator shaft, cut down engine side of 28amp case. Unable to tell if there is an intermediate bearing at the front of the 28amp unit. A bearing will be needed to be added here if not. As I understand it, the 28amp case is open to the crankcase for cooling purposes? If so, a sealed bearing will close this off. Install a Lovejoy type coupling on the cut down shaft. Find suitable small alternator, there are many 30-40amo units that may work. Lovejoy coupling to the small alternator shaft. Then standoffs, legs, machined mount to support alternator to back side of cut down 28amp case. No idea if this would fit in the space, but it's certain doable. I've seen lots of industrial stuff driven in this manner. RT
 

John OoSTerhuis

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John, neither assembly has anything a 40-amp alternator uses or needs, except the split gear, correct? Just educating myself.
As pictured in posts 19 and 23, and noted in 23, all the parts on the 28amper’s’ Alternator Shaft Assemblies’ splined shaft are common to the 40ampers’ alt shaft assy. I won’t enumerate them part number and noun-nomenclature, they are clearly displayed in the pictures, and are shown on any online parts fiche schematic. Alan Barbic, STOC 141, who pioneered the alt upgrade first noticed the parts common to both systems.

John
 

John OoSTerhuis

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As I understand it, the 28amp case is open to the crankcase for cooling purposes?
Yes, the windings and coil are bathed in engine oil (which is cooled by the unit under the oil filter). Note that the OEM bearing at the base of the 40amper’s shaft is not sealed and allows engine oil to pass through it into the cavity between the plate and the base of the alternator that its male splined shaft projects into. This shaft fits into the female splined socket in the end of the alt shaft assy’s shaft.

John
 
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rwthomas1

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hello John, is there another bearing at the end of the gear, where it engages inside the engine? There has to be, based on the 40amp stub shaft, or the stub shaft wouldn't be supported. Based on that, replacing that bearing with a sealed unit, and either pressing a plate in from the other side, or TIG'ing up those holes seals up that piece and makes it an adaptor. How much oil is pushed into that alternator? I assume it's above the oil level in the pan?

RT
 

John OoSTerhuis

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... is there another bearing at the end of the gear, where it engages inside the engine?
Yes. There are images here and elsewhere of the engine opening showing the inner case plate with the recess for the front bearing.
How much oil is pushed into that alternator?
Dunno.
I assume it's above the oil level in the pan?
Not sure. If I had to guess I’d say even or below. The oil is drained before doing the upgrade but I know oil leaked, engine off, in all the cases where one of the o-rings failed.

John
 
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rwthomas1

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John, if you are interested in shipping me the stripped unit from post #33, I'll take it. Let me know what I need to do. I'd also like to know a key dimension:

Length of the 40amp from the adapter plate to the farthest point on the alternator. Basically, how tall is it.
Also, the bearing on the 40 amp stub/adaptor shaft assembly. A pic of the data on it, or just give the size/type numbers.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the 40amp bearing is merely the sealed version of the open 28amp part.

I have a lot of projects going right now, but hey, what's one more!

RT
 

John OoSTerhuis

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shipping me the stripped unit from post #33, I'll take it
It’s yours. I will send you contact info.
Length of the 40amp from the adapter plate to the farthest point on the alternator.
That would necessitate me pulling the Tupperware on my upgraded ‘91 SSMST1100. Take yours apart and measure, or someone reading with a 40amp alt in hand can chime in with it.
the bearing on the 40 amp stub/adaptor shaft assembly. A pic of the data on it, or just give the size/type numbers.
You should probably do a little research on the upgrade for a better understanding:
ST1100 AOW - 40 Amp Alternator Upgrade
but in any case, here’s the basic upgrade parts list from the link in the above page:
*ST1100 40 Amp Alternator Upgrade Parts:
(using the Lewis Pin method)
  • 13411-MAJ-G20 SHAFT
  • 11202-MAJ-G20 ALTERNATOR BASE
  • 91004-MT3-003 BEARING (20x47x10.5)
  • 31100-MAJ-G41 ALTERNATOR ASSY.
  • 91302-MM4-003 O-RING (90x2.3)
  • 32130-MAJ-G40 SUB-HARNESS, ALTNTR
  • 95701-08070-00 BOLT, FLANGE (8X70) - quantity: 3
The 1996-2002 ST1100 OEM alt shaft bearing size is identified in the listed part noun-nomenclature/description.
I have a sneaking suspicion that the 40amp bearing is merely the sealed version of the open 28amp part.
As I mentioned in post 32 above, the 40amp bearing is not a sealed type bearing.

John
 
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rwthomas1

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I have a 40 amp here that I could measure but not sure exactly what you need.
Just need to know how far the 40amp unit protrudes case when installed. My bike is not parked at my house, and taking it apart would have to happen next time I ride to work. Given weather, that could be a while... So thanks, RT
 
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