A different approach to voltmeters

[beemerphile]

My Mike Bike (aka "Leroy") came to me with a Datel voltmeter on it. The red LED numerals are completely washed out and unreadable without cupping a hand over it in full sun and still manages to be too bright at night. I wanted to stay with a digital meter, but it needs to be daylight readable; not objectionable at night; and accurate. I finally landed on the Blue Sea model #1733 Mini OLED meter...

I've used lots of Blue Sea products over the years and have always found them to be good quality. Getting this meter was a bit of work because it was backordered with no replenishment date just about everywhere. Doing some research, just about everything at Blue Sea is on backorder because a disgruntled ex-employee torched the factory building one night and burned it to the ground.

Blue Sea fire

It has been a long process, but product is again starting to flow. This item lists for about $55 and is generally available for around $30-40. During the peak of the shortage, there was an eBay "entrepreneur" trying to sell them for over $100. I hope he has to eat them. On Leroy, I am mounting the gauge where the headlight adjuster used to be. Here is is mounted and operating in the fairing insert...

Accurate to 0.01 volts vs. my Fluke meter. Daylight readable in bright sun, and not at all bright at night, but still clearly readable. Win, Win, Win.

On my "pretty bike" (aka "Lisa") I am planning to use the 1733 voltmeter along with a Blue Sea 1741 temperature gauge that is in the same format as the 1733...



I have not been satisfied with the low resolution of the stock ST11 temperature gauge. My plan is to remove the fuel gauge and temperature gauge from the instrument panel and fit these two items in their place. In mockups, they will fit well in the recessed area of the panel with only minimal custom work.

The abandoned stock fuel gauge will be replaced with an Autometer programmable 2-1/16" fuel level gauge located in the headlight adjuster location.

 

[CYYJ]

Perfect timing of your post - this week, my Datel voltmeter (installed in 2001) finally died. I'm not sure whether to get another one (easy to fit into the existing hole) or go with your idea of the Blue Sea product. I have a Blue Sea auxiliary power bus on my moto, also installed in 2001 - it has served me well, I am happy with the quality of Blue Sea products.

Just a tip on voltmeter wiring: consider picking the positive DC source for the voltmeter off of the back of the ST's factory fuseblock (there is at least one spare, unused fuse position there), and then giving the voltmeter its own ground as close to the meter as reasonably possible. This will ensure that you get the most accurate reading from the meter, unaffected by line losses elsewhere in the motorcycle's wiring harness.

In my case, I installed a relay to power the auxiliary bus, so, I picked the positive DC for the voltmeter directly off the output terminal of the relay. This means that on my moto, the meter measures auxiliary bus voltage, which is both a good proxy for main bus voltage and also a "head's up" to me if I am drawing too much power on the aux bus.

Michael

Failed Datel Meter

 

[fnmag]

Very nice upgrade to the meters.

 

[beemerphile]

Still working through some sensor issues on the temp gauge (with thanks to @dwalby for his help). The 1733 voltmeter looks to be a hot tip.

Perfect timing of your post - this week, my Datel voltmeter (installed in 2001) finally died. I'm not sure whether to get another one (easy to fit into the existing hole) or go with your idea of the Blue Sea product.

Bummer about the hole. I may leave a working Datel in mine as a combination "Plan B" and "hole-filler".

...Just a tip on voltmeter wiring: consider picking the positive DC source for the voltmeter off of the back of the ST's factory fuseblock (there is at least one spare, unused fuse position there), and then giving the voltmeter its own ground as close to the meter as reasonably possible. This will ensure that you get the most accurate reading from the meter, unaffected by line losses elsewhere in the motorcycle's wiring harness.

Thanks for that. I have a sub-miniature gold contact signal relay that I may be able to use to switch the gauge power if needed.

 

[mello dude]

Is it 1 1/8th inch diameter? And the vendor is? Or just buy direct from Blue Sea?
Thxz

 

[beemerphile]

Is it 1 1/8th inch diameter? And the vendor is? Or just buy direct from Blue Sea?
Thxz

Shop around. Lots of people sell them for less that Blue Sea direct. Be sure to ask whether the item is in stock because as pointed out above, Blue Sea is in a mess right now because of the factory fire.

The face diameter is 1.58" (40mm). The thru-hole diameter is 1-1/8". The face doesn't quite fit into the recess in the headlight adjuster, but the rubber washer under it does and it fills / seals the difference nicely. On the temperature gauge, I received it today and it indeed shipped with a sensor only rated for 175F. @dwalby found the same item on Waytek shipping with the appropriate sensor. Not sure what's up with that.

https://www.waytekwire.com/item/78040/Blue-Sea-1741-Mini-OLED-Temperature-Monitor/

 

[The Cheese]

I've seen the meter. I like it. Looks more yellow in person. Which is my only issue with it. Would not fit in with the other gauges on mine.

Lee certainly is ambitious. I am looking forward to seeing the bike done.

 

[John OoSTerhuis]

Interesting, especially the temp gage.

Just a thought, Lee... from personal experience, you may not be happy with a digital voltmeter that reads in hundredths of a volt, especially if it is mounted in your normal riding field of vision. That last digit will constantly change and draw your attention to it. BTDT Drove me nuts, at night in particular!

My four digit Datel (Warchild STOC group buy years ago) has long been mounted in the right fairing pocket cover, out of my line of sight. BTW, it reads voltage directly from the battery, unswitched but with a waterproof mini SPST switch next to it so I can read it anytime (e.g. resting voltage). FWIW

I recommend the Datel meters that read in tenths of a volt. JMHO but the marine analogue meters that read in whole volt increments are worthless, as are the red/amber/green leds type.

John

 

[ST Gui]

The Blue Sea meters are available from Amazon. The voltmeter is $35. A round hole is easy to get right though I don't know the diameter of the meter face with bezel. OLED is nice but if I was to spend the money I'd want white white display. I don't need two-place accuracy (.00).

I like the Datel but wish there were a spot to mount it closer to eye level. Some kind of shroud that allowed mounting under the dash lip or on top might be just the ticket.

 

[beemerphile]

Well, everyone ought to hang back and see how this pans out. They say the pioneer is the guy with the arrow in his chest. The vast majority of my undertakings turn out well, but then there is the occasional colossal failure. Given time, every engineer will build himself a monument.

Lee certainly is ambitious. I am looking forward to seeing the bike done.

ambitious [ am-bish-uhs ] adjective: Polite form of "three french fries short of a Happy Meal."

 

[CYYJ]

Just a thought, Lee... from personal experience, you may not be happy with a digital voltmeter that reads in hundredths of a volt, especially if it is mounted in your normal riding field of vision. That last digit will constantly change and draw your attention to it.

Lee - John makes a very good point. The voltmeter is not something that you need to constantly monitor, the way we monitor the speedometer or GPS or tachometer. It's very much a secondary indicator that we would only ever look at if we had a reason to be concerned about system voltage - or, perhaps we might look at it once an hour or so.

I think it will drive you nuts having it up in your line of sight, constantly changing. I did a lot of human factors work in aircraft flight compartment and instrument panel design before I retired, and one of the key concepts we applied was to keep "secondary" indications (such as bus voltage, current draw, oxygen quantity, stuff like that) out of the primary scan area of the pilot. Heck, the lights that show the position of the landing gear (up or down) are important, but we don't put them in direct line of sight because the pilot only needs to look at them when he/she wants to confirm correct position. The voltmeter is used in a similar way - we only look at it when we want to confirm correct system voltage.

I like the Datel but wish there were a spot to mount it closer to eye level. Some kind of shroud that allowed mounting under the dash lip or on top might be just the ticket.

Robert - no, trust me, you don't want it up at eye level. Look at where I put mine (post #2 above). That's worked perfectly for 18 years now. It's easy to see if I want to check it, but out of my line of sight otherwise.

Michael

 

[dwalby]

Shop around. Lots of people sell them for less that Blue Sea direct. Be sure to ask whether the item is in stock because as pointed out above, Blue Sea is in a mess right now because of the factory fire.

The face diameter is 1.58" (40mm). The thru-hole diameter is 1-1/8". The face doesn't quite fit into the recess in the headlight adjuster, but the rubber washer under it does and it fills / seals the difference nicely. On the temperature gauge, I received it today and it indeed shipped with a sensor only rated for 175F. @dwalby found the same item on Waytek shipping with the appropriate sensor. Not sure what's up with that.

https://www.waytekwire.com/item/78040/Blue-Sea-1741-Mini-OLED-Temperature-Monitor/

Lee, here's BlueSea's own documentation that shows the 1821 sensor as being included on one document, and the 1820 on another.

In the main 7141 product spec (link below) it shows the 1820, but if you click on the "instructions" PDF link in the lower left corner of the product spec, the instructions document says 1x 1821 sensor included. That plus the fact that the meter is spec'd to 250F would seem to indicate a quick phone call or e-mail should get you the 1821 sensor.

https://www.bluesea.com/products/1741/Mini_OLED_Temperature_Monitor

 

[beemerphile]

Lee - John makes a very good point. The voltmeter is not something that you need to constantly monitor, the way we monitor the speedometer or GPS or tachometer. It's very much a secondary indicator that we would only ever look at if we had a reason to be concerned about system voltage - or, perhaps we might look at it once an hour or so.

I think it will drive you nuts having it up in your line of sight, constantly changing. I did a lot of human factors work in aircraft flight compartment and instrument panel design before I retired, and one of the key concepts we applied was to keep "secondary" indications (such as bus voltage, current draw, oxygen quantity, stuff like that) out of the primary scan area of the pilot. Heck, the lights that show the position of the landing gear (up or down) are important, but we don't put them in direct line of sight because the pilot only needs to look at them when he/she wants to confirm correct position. The voltmeter is used in a similar way - we only look at it when we want to confirm correct system voltage.

John has a long standing reputation for making good points and this is likely another. The pilot scan input is equally valid commentary and I appreciate it. I was not crazy about the .01 digit either, but I have little interest in a meter that reads a volt off as well. My Datel is mounted where yours is. I like it other than I can't see it except at night and I generally do not drive at night. That location may be a better place for this one. Or just get an analog gauge, except I kinda sorta wanted digital. Most vehicle analog voltmeters only allow an approximation of 1/4 volt. I don't think that is good enough. It will tell you whether the alternator is humping it, but gives no idea of battery health at start-up or when you are starting to outrun your electrical capacity. A 270 degree gauge gives enough resolution to accurately interpolate the tenth. I have used this one on a BMW, but the indigo lighting is not what I am looking for on this bike.

New South voltmeter

One advantage of airing out my crazy ideas early is that sane people can try to talk me off the ledge. Sometimes I just say heck no and roll the dice. Depends on how much the dice roll costs. In this case, not much.

 

[Uncle Phil]

Lee - Have you seen the Honda Marine voltage gauge?

 

[beemerphile]

Lee - Have you seen the Honda Marine voltage gauge?

Yes, from the one I have seen on @The Cheese 's bike it falls in the "off by a volt" category.

 

[CYYJ]

Lee:

I like my Datel meter so much that I am going to buy another (identical) one to replace the one that failed.

You are correct, there are times when it cannot be easily read in direct sunlight, but those times are infrequent. When that happens, I just wait until I ride by a shaded area (grove of trees, tall building, etc.) and then look at it, or, I cup my hand around the outside of it.

In practice, though, I generally only look at the meter once per operating cycle, and that is right after I have started the motorcycle but before I begin moving. If I'm on a long ride, I might look at it once every hour or so.

Michael

 

[beemerphile]

I may make a black vinyl mask for the hundredths digit. I was considering masking the face of it anyway because I did not like the prominence of the Blue Sea logo and the model number. Simple to build with a round flat 40mm disc and a rectangular aperture that covers the .01 digit.

 

[Coop]

Do I need to put my wife's comment about stuff like this out for all to see? She asks why I don't just buy what I want instead building it out of something else. LOL!! I will now continue reading this very interesting thread.

 

[Uncle Phil]

Do I need to put my wife's comment about stuff like this out for all to see? She asks why I don't just buy what I want instead building it out of something else. LOL!! I will now continue reading this very interesting thread.

The problem is they don't make exactly what we want (a brand new ST1100) so we have to 'fix it'.

 

[Coop]

The problem is they don't make exactly what we want (a brand new ST1100) so we have to 'fix it'.

Why don't they make what we need?