A visit to the Dark Side

BamaRider

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A good friend of mine recently traded his 2014 BMW RT on a new 2018 HD Ultra Classic? Not sure it could be a Road King. Good friends, but we don't ride together often, as I'm a solo guy. I was surprised, but not shocked at the move. He rode HDs while in service with the local police dept.. but his personal bikes were never HDs, his last 2 bikes were the GS and the RT.

He came by here to show me his new ride. It has most everything a touring bike should have. He said he bought the bike because it was a better 2 up ride than his RT, but you'll never convince me of that, just a smoke screen to get his wife to sign off on the trade. He never rode the RT as a sport touring bike anyway. He has several close friends he rides with, they all ride HDs and make a annual trip one or two states over. He advised me they never rode more than a 300 miles a day. Like I said, he never rode the RT as a sport touring bike.

He asked if I wanted to ride to over to the local HD shop, and then go out in the country for a couple of hours. I said, "sounds good."

I've not been in a HD dealer in a decade, not because I think HDs are bad, but I'm a sport touring guy, and I ride alone, and I ride far most times. All that is counter to HD culture, and thats ok. To each his own.

At the dealer I could not help but be impressed. A visit to a HD shop is a happening, and on this saturday morning, the place was abuzz with activity. In the parking they had tent and crawfish boil going down, a DJ played music, and the faithful were wheeling in left and right.

Inside the showroom was huge, with a over a hundred brand new bikes on display. Every bike the company made was on the showroom floor, with helpful salesman answering any questions. I thought to what a great job HD has done marketing their products. NOTHING I could see in this 2 story building did not have the HD symbol on it. They sold no outside vendor stuff. HD truly caters to their clientele, they could not do enough for the people just walking around looking. "Sir, your BMW is a beautiful bike, stay and eat some crawfish."

The bikes themselves were some of the most beautiful I'd ever seen. Rich paint jobs so deep and glossy I needed sunglasses to walk around. Lots of chrome. If HD was in sales slump, didn't show it on this day. I counted 3 bikes with sold signs on them. The one thing that most impressed me? Not a single lawn mower, ATV, or watercraft anywhere. A Honda dealer is now called a "Powersport dealer." No sir, all motorcycles in here. I felt out of place while Gene bought a new shirt, in fact they threw in a extra for free to celebrate his new purchase a few days before.

Yes, all this stuff was overpriced, but that's true of any brand. Now I more understood the feeling. My friend wanted to be part of the HD culture, he was always inclined to be around other riders, and when he rode his BMW with his friends he felt out of place. This showroom looked like something out of star wars. Upstairs lounge, flat screen with a baseball game on, and riders were welcome to just come hang out. Someone recognized my RT and came inside to find me. I was easy to spot in my red Klim riding pants. He said he visited my website often. He advised me if a out of town rider came in to the shop, he was seen to immediately fix his problem, if they had to pull a guy off a bike on the rack already. As is should be.

The ceiling in the main floor was 30 ft high and HD banners hung everywhere.

No, they are not for me, but they are for many. I respect that, and I can see how they got there. True, they are in a marketing slump, and they are trying to shake things up because they see they must replace us baby boomers with millennials, and they are aggressively pursuing that angle. Like this, when HD is good, we are all good.
 
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Scooter

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Like this, when HD is good, we are all good.
What's the old saying? A rising tide lifts all boats. I've always thought that Harley makes some beautiful bikes but there are too many others that I'm more interested in to actually go and buy one. I live about three miles from the Pilgrim Road Powertrain Operations facility in Menomonee Falls and took a tour of the place last Labor Day weekend. You can't come away from that tour not being impressed with the way they operate. It truly is a world class operation they have at that facility...

P.S. Guy, when I first read the title of this thread I was wondering which one of your bike's you had mounted the car tire on... ;)
 
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Thank the Lord, it's not another tyre thread!
Guy, you are so right about the ride culture, it's no different over here. If I see a Pan or similar it's nearly always on its own. Sports bikes are always in packs weaving from side to side for no discernible reason and Harley riders ride in a long procession, all in line and auxillary lights blazing.
As an aside, I agree the Harley's a beautiful bike and especially the Road King with hard bags, not so much the culture though, at least not for me. I like Crawfish though.
Upt'North.
 

Mellow

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While I do believe that many gravitate to the image.... I can tell you when I'm out riding alone and it's cold or windy and I'm in the middle of nowhere... I'm more likely to see a Harley rider than a winger or sport tourer... now, maybe that's just a numbers game and there are so many that the lone rider just satisfies those statistics. Everyone gets into riding for different reasons and they are all correct... because they don't have to be right for anyone but that specific person.
 
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The local Harley Dealer here is much the same. Impressive facilities, very active, etc. And yes, it's pretty cool to stop in there and see the BBQ going, a band playing, etc. I somehow got on their mailing list and they're constantly sending me invites to nice events with entertainment, raffles etc. (yes, of course they're also hoping to sell me a bike at those...) I certainly understand (even if I don't really 'cleave' to it) the appeal of the brand culture.

I'll echo others here to say I generally find HD's bikes very nicely finished and good looking. The exception was the V-Rod which I found ugly... but 'beauty's in the eye...' and all. It's a shame it didn't sell well since it was far more advanced in many ways than their 'standard' bikes. I hear many say "Why doesn't HD join the rest of us in the 21st century?" (or its corollary: "Why pay 2-3x more for 1950's technology?"). When I hear that I think "they tried, and the bike flopped..."

I also have to give the local HD dealer kudos for the support they offer the community. They have classroom facilities and a nice training course set up. They let the PA Motorcycle Safety Program use it for their courses, and other charitable efforts/orgs use their facilities.

I'm certainly not in the 'rag on Harley' contingent myself. I currently own an older sportster 1200 and plan to keep it pretty much forever. I find the sportie a fun running-around-town bike, even if I view its operational limit as 70mph or so (and that not for very long, comfortably). It's absolutely NOT a bike I'd take on a long trip, and I don't even particularly like to ride it on the highway for very long at all - a couple exits worth to get from A to B is about all I'll do. I've ridden some of the newer 'big' Harleys and just... 'meh' Nothing especially -wrong- with them, but if I compare them to the equivalent Japanese big v-twins (e.g. a relevant big displacement bagger Vulcan, Intruder, V-star etc.) there's just no comparison in ride quality/handling/feel. The big HD's just invariably feel awkward, bulky and tippy to me by comparison. Last one I rode was last fall taking my dad's RoadKing (or StreetMaster or OilTanker or whatever it was...) 4 miles down the road to winter storage. I was basically eager to get OFF the thing within that 4 miles. But again, that's me and YMMV. I'm guessing a real Harley guy who got on one of my big japanese v-twins might say it felt twitchy or light or something.
 

sirepair

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You have to give Harley credit - They sell a lifestyle, get involved with the community, and are really good at what they do! ;-)
And they are trying to draw in a younger crowd, with the 500 and 750 models, and even going 'letric. But it may be too little, too late.
 
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And they are trying to draw in a younger crowd, with the 500 and 750 models, and even going 'letric. But it may be too little, too late.
I think they are right to do that, and smart to do it. BUT I think they need to also not get too far afield. IMHO, they should focus on 40+ riders. I don't think they need to 'get 'em young' and inculcate them into the brand. My experiences/observation is that there's a key transition in moto riders somewhere around 40. Focus shifts, priorities have changed. More than a few who had a bike younger 'took a break' around the time marriage/kids/homebuying happened. I think Harley should be positioning themselves to grab that 40-ish rider who is either A) re-entering the market as kids get older, finances get better, etc. or B) never left but their mental (and physical) needs for a motorcycle are changing.

Another factor is that MANY of the 'younger' riders are gonna want some variety of sporty-bike (I'd broadly include things like DS, Adventure, etc. in this too), like it or not. I think Harley is definitely WAY too far behind to compete there (and it's truly out of synch with their brand anyway).

I think they're on the right track that an 'entry' Harley (which isn't a sportster) is what they need. I just think they may have set the 'entry' point too low. So I think the 'street' bikes aren't necessarily a bad move for them to achieve that. Nor was the V-rod, frankly, it just could have been executed better.

I do think they very much wasted a breakout opportunity with Buell. That could have been a path forward, but they just roped Buell in so tight that it was doomed to fail. Ditto for any other acquisition - Triumph would make a lot of sense (but doubt Bloor would sell). KTM could also be VERY interesting. Acquisition could be a good way to expand the overall business in new ways, but far too likely they'd just "Harlify" anything they buy.

sirepair may be right that it's just too late. Cadillac has a similar 'perception / ageing audience' problem. Cadillac came out with some truly great cars the last few years, great design, innovative, much better reliability... CT-6 is a gorgeous car, IMHO. Didn't much help. I can't think of a single well-to-do <70YO that would consider a Cadillac instead of the BMW, Benz, Audi, Inifiniti or Lexus they want/have now.

Or maybe it's not too late, but Harley is simply too constrained. Some things that might help (e.g. a platform with an engine that isn't a v-twin), may just be a 'bridge too far' without damaging their core brand / business. Look at how the faithful whined just about having a liquid-cooled engine! It's a classic case of whether you shoot yourself in the foot or not... And shooting yourself in the foot HURTS.
 

the Ferret

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Now.. to the original post

Why won't Harley go ahead and make a sport-tourer? Not like it's beyond their ability. I for one would certainly look at one, give it a test ride. I don't need 200 or 160 horsepower. 125 is plenty maybe even 100. Imagine, hydraulic valves, belt drive, rubber mounted motor, small fairing, hard bags, flat seat. I don't understand why Harley and Indian steadfastly refuse to build a bike of that genre.

Then I too would walk into a Harley dealership.
 
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BamaRider

BamaRider

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Joe said-

"I can tell you when I'm out riding alone and it's cold or windy and I'm in the middle of nowhere... I'm more likely to see a Harley rider than a winger or sport tourer..."

That could be me, I'm not taking a long ride in the cold lol. My experience has been in the touring season, I see the HDs in packs of 3-4, especially in areas like Moab, Badlands, Monument Valley, and Taos. Not a scientific survey for sure, but just my observations.

Then KC came in and added-

"I think they are right to do that, and smart to do it. BUT I think they need to also not get too far afield. IMHO, they should focus on 40+ riders. I don't think they need to 'get 'em young' and inculcate them into the brand. My experiences/observation is that there's a key transition in moto riders somewhere around 40. Focus shifts, priorities have changed. More than a few who had a bike younger 'took a break' around the time marriage/kids/homebuying happened. I think Harley should be positioning themselves to grab that 40-ish rider who is either A) re-entering the market as kids get older, finances get better, etc. or B) never left but their mental (and physical) needs for a motorcycle are changing"


True. Millennials not ready to pay 25k for a bike, but they might in another 20 years, and gearing for that market makes sense. It is the path I took to arrive where I am at. I always had a bike. A 1984 Kawasaki 750 GPZ bridged me to the sport touring bike I always wanted. That came in 2001. I did not ride much from 1986 to 2000 while I focused on coaching football and baseball and raising my son. But when he left for college I made my move.

But back to the subject at hand. I could never adapt to the feet out in front of the HD, just not me. But those guys swear by it. I just wish the "Powersports" dealers would be more motorcycle and less watercraft.
 
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While I do believe that many gravitate to the image.... I can tell you when I'm out riding alone and it's cold or windy and I'm in the middle of nowhere... I'm more likely to see a Harley rider than a winger or sport tourer... now, maybe that's just a numbers game and there are so many that the lone rider just satisfies those statistics. Everyone gets into riding for different reasons and they are all correct... because they don't have to be right for anyone but that specific person.
When I rode to Spearfish last summer, I noticed the majority of bikes on the road were HD. Next was probably BMW. And hardly any Honda, Yamaha or Suzuki bikes. It surprised me, because I always thought of HD owners only riding from home to the nearest biker bar, and back.

Chris
 

ST Gui

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It surprised me, because I always thought of HD owners only riding from home to the nearest biker bar, and back.
That's what a lot of non-Harley riders would like you to believe. But on my few longer distance and multi-state rides I've seen far more H-Ds than any other brand of bike.
 
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Just a note on Harley dealerships: We had one in Columbia - Harley Haven. It was popular, well respected and did a great business. Then Harley Corporate came down and decreed that if you want to be a licensed Harley dealer, you have to build a new showroom - it's got to be visible from the interstate, and cost at least $1Mil. Got this info from the owner. So he had to move his whole dealership out by I-26. That's why they're such big/nice places, it's a requirement to be a dealer. Not that it's a bad thing. I don't care much for the local Honda shop - they change personnel a lot, won't touch any bike over 10 years old (even though a 2003 and a 2012 ST are the same) and seem to be more expensive on accessories and parts. I only go there to see new bikes, or maybe pick up something I need in a hurry.

I've been to a couple of the new dealerships here, and you're right, they are an event. But Harley still doesn't make anything I want to pay for let alone ride.

The 500 and 750 are a mistake to me - they don't seem to be popular, and they aren't really Harleys.
 
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....I've seen far more H-Ds than any other brand of bike.
Seems like I have always seen more Harleys on the road than anything whether its just day tripping or going on a trip of some sort. Harley riders take a lot of good natured flak (I guess we all do in some form or fashion regardless of what you ride) but I have been of the opinion for a long time that you have to give Harley riders some credit because they do get out and ride.
 

Andrew Shadow

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I am in a Northern winter climate. In the early spring it can still be quite cold around here on a bike and I have always noticed that the Harleys are always the first ones I see out every year. Same thing in the late fall- it can be cold on a bike. It seems that the Harleys are always the last ones still riding. I always found this curious because one would think that the bike that provides the most protection would be the Gold Wing and for that reason they would be the first and last out but it doesn't seem to be so. I always joked that they had to ride them as much as possible to get their moneys worth out of them because they cost so much to begin with. Truth be told I have to give them credit.
 
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maybe that's just a numbers game and there are so many that the lone rider just satisfies those statistics
:plus1:
If you think about it... it is partially numbers game. Certainly more HD's than Wings, ST's and the like. If you don't own a tourer, sport tourer, or adventure bike... you're probably just a fair weather rider anyway and stay on the porch when its wet or cold. So the HD's will win the numbers game.
 
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:plus1:
If you think about it... it is partially numbers game. Certainly more HD's than Wings, ST's and the like. If you don't own a tourer, sport tourer, or adventure bike... you're probably just a fair weather rider anyway and stay on the porch when its wet or cold. So the HD's will win the numbers game.
LOL. I own a Sport-Tourer AND a Harley... and I'm still "Just" a fair weather rider who stays inside when it's wet or cold :)
 

SupraSabre

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I don't see Harleys as the "darkside" I just see them as a Black Hole. Once sucked in, you'll pay dearly, until you can escape!

:twist1:
 
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