A visit to the Dark Side

[davidrider]

The HD touring models are just super comfortable. That's my take on why you see folks riding the wheels off them. BTW, just got back from a 4k mile trip myself.

 

[SupraSabre]

I don't have the numbers handy, but I'd say 50% of all bikes sold over 750cc are HD and the rest split the other 50%?

And 75% of those Harleys bought, are ridden maybe 5,000 miles, if they are lucky. Many buy them for the prestige, ride them two or three times and then they sit! 4:

"I ride a Harley!"

 

[Khav]

No, they are not for me, but they are for many. I respect that, and I can see how they got there. True, they are in a marketing slump, and they are trying to shake things up because they see they must replace us baby boomers with millennials, and they are aggressively pursuing that angle. Like this, when HD is good, we are all good.

An extremely thoughtful post, BamaRider. This is the sort of considered reflection that should characterize all 'religious' debate

Now.. to the original post

Why won't Harley go ahead and make a sport-tourer? Not like it's beyond their ability. I for one would certainly look at one, give it a test ride. I don't need 200 or 160 horsepower. 125 is plenty maybe even 100. Imagine, hydraulic valves, belt drive, rubber mounted motor, small fairing, hard bags, flat seat. I don't understand why Harley and Indian steadfastly refuse to build a bike of that genre.

Then I too would walk into a Harley dealership.

Well, there was the whole Buell thing as KCJones mentioned, but it was effectively squashed when HD took control. Buell was eventually deemed to be a dilution of the HD brand which, I believe, holds the answer to your question.

Insanely strong brand loyalty is a dual-edged sword:

Remain true to the essence of the brand and all of the intangibles that it represents, and you're golden.
Diverge significantly from that essence and the loyal will feel abandoned and betrayed.

 

[davidrider]

And 75% of those Harleys bought, are ridden maybe 5,000 miles, if they are lucky. Many buy them for the prestige, ride them two or three times and then they sit! 4:

"I ride a Harley!"

Seems like you've got some unsubstantiated bias... did you know that about 75% of statistics are also made up, ya really. There are garage queens of all makes and models. I bought my 2005 ST from a guy who'd had it for 6 years at that time and it had less than 500 miles on it. I rode it for about three summers and grabbed an even better deal on a bmw and sold the ST with more than 20k miles for about the same price I paid for it. Some statistics that will hold up to google, 50% of HDs sold these days are touring bikes and many of their cruiser models have good light touring capability. Then you can tour on anything if you're hard core.
I've a friend with two ducs that I ride more than he does. Only cost is I have to add a carbon fiber farkle each time I borrow one. The bikes are mostly carbon fiber now. To him they're garage art, to me two cool low mile rides. To each their own. As for other folks comments about seeing mostly HDs on their long rides, I'd have to agree. I pay attention to what others ride because I like all kinds of bikes.

 

[KCJones]

Seems like you've got some unsubstantiated bias... did you know that about 75% of statistics are also made up, ya really. There are garage queens of all makes and models. I bought my 2005 ST from a guy who'd had it for 6 years at that time and it had less than 500 miles on it. I rode it for about three summers and grabbed an even better deal on a bmw and sold the ST with more than 20k miles for about the same price I paid for it. Some statistics that will hold up to google, 50% of HDs sold these days are touring bikes and many of their cruiser models have good light touring capability. Then you can tour on anything if you're hard core.
I've a friend with two ducs that I ride more than he does. Only cost is I have to add a carbon fiber farkle each time I borrow one. The bikes are mostly carbon fiber now. To him they're garage art, to me two cool low mile rides. To each their own. As for other folks comments about seeing mostly HDs on their long rides, I'd have to agree. I pay attention to what others ride because I like all kinds of bikes.

OK, source-able numbers:

Harley's market share (as of 2014) in U.S. was ~35%. So ~1 in 3 bikes you see out there should be Harley.

Kawasaki, Yamaha, Honda & Suzuki have ~33% between them. So ~1 in 3 bikes you see out there should be a YamaKaSuzda.

Harley's market share of 600cc+ bikes is about ~51%. So half those you see should be Harley.

Then bring in the subjective:

1) Those numbers are SALES, not bikes on the road. For example, I'd wager that Harleys stay on the road longer than most sport-bikes (higher-strung engines, more wrecks, etc.). I can certainly tell you I see a LOT more sport-bikes coming up at the insurance auction than Harleys, and they're typically newer too. So it's possible that selling 1 in 3 bikes in the showroom produces more than 1 in 3 bikes "on the road."

2) Those #'s are U.S. and vary by region. Where I live (Central PA) is heavy Harley country, likely in part due to the huge Harley presence in York. I definitely see more than 1/3 Harley on the roads around here.

3) Perception. Maybe one just notices Harleys more. They tend to be bigger and louder than many of the other bikes out there. Plus just plain error: I'm sure nobody here would, but for non-bikers in particular it's easy to mistake one of the Japanese big V-Twin "harleyish" bikes for a Harley as it blasts past. There's enough Vulcans, V-Stars, Shadows and Intruders and the like out there to add up. So when you hear anecdotally about "3/4 of the bikes out there are Harleys" from someone, that may factor in.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

2) Those #'s are U.S. and vary by region. Where I live (Central PA) is heavy Harley country, likely in part due to the huge Harley presence in York. I definitely see more than 1/3 Harley on the roads around here.

That's an understatement if I ever heard one! I don't remember the name of the town but once on a trip I stayed overnight in the central PA area. I could not believe how many bikes were on the road to begin with let alone what type they were. It was as though there was a bike rally going on but there wasn't. It was impressive to see. I was astounded at how many Harley's I saw to the point where we began to wonder if we were putting our lives in danger going about town on Japanese bikes.

 

[CYYJ]

Hi Guy:

What a delightful, well-written, and thought-provoking post. Thanks for taking the time to write it and share it with all of us.

Michael

 

[djdnjuan]

I came to see if there is a new person making kits for the 11s to move to the dark side and i ended looking for my nearear HD dealer?

 

[ST Gui]

Many buy them for the prestige, ride them two or three times and then they sit!

Yet almost every H-D rider is referred to by somebody as being one of the subset of image conscious people who only put low miles on it and 'let it sit'.

did you know that about 75% of statistics are also made up, ya really.

'There are three kinds of lies: lies damned lies and statistics.'

We talk about 'ride what you like / it's all good / each to his own' etc. So why bad-mouth H-Ds and their riders as though those that are 'as good as us' are in the minority? 'It's just joking' around' until it isn't.

Some people want to see a caste system where there isn't and shouldn't be one. H-D riders / cage drivers / pickup truck drivers / soccer moms in SUVs / millennials texting... There's no end to the FUD biases. And no substantiation for painting in broad strokes. A few data points are selected ostensibly supporting a perception which becomes someone's reality. Oh boy.

 

[KCJones]

That's an understatement if I ever heard one! I don't remember the name of the town but once on a trip I stayed overnight in the central PA area. I could not believe how many bikes were on the road to begin with let alone what type they were. It was as though there was a bike rally going on but there wasn't. It was impressive to see. I was astounded at how many Harley's I saw to the point where we began to wonder if we were putting our lives in danger going about town on Japanese bikes.

If you're going to ride a metric bike around here - especially in York - I recommend offsetting the risk by wearing lots of Penn State gear.

 

[davidrider]

A very unscientific survey of bike observations. This during a five hour ride in western Colorado in remote but good riding area. Started at 1500 and went till 2000. I observed no group rides, only ones and twos. It was Friday afternoon / eve so number of bikes was less than Saturday or even Sunday would be. I'm not trying to say anything by this... only reporting what I recorded for fun (stopped and wrote on notepad each time) for the curious. Got the models best I could, sorry super sports kinda look alike to me.
10 Street/Road Glides (two were the two headlight variety - Road Glides)
4 Road Kings (two were specials, one of which was riding two up) * not including myself in the count
3 Sportsters
2 Ultras
2 Softail Classics
2 Dynas (with bags and windscreens and other customization)
2 Street Glide based trikes
4 super sport 600 unk make model (one was kawasaki green)
3 dirt bikes (400cc with bags added) unk make model, def not KLR... smaller, yet doing 65 mph
2 Vstrom (one was two up with lotsa luggage)
2 xsr yamaha
1 classic honda ujm ~400cc (rider in town wearing store clerk uniform / no gear)
1 Wing (early model)
1 ST1300 black (spotted at 1735 on hwy 285, side of road checking luggage)
1 Versys (with lotsa bags)
1 BMW 1200GS
1 either Africa or Tenere (occluded by gas pumps)

 

[Mophead]

I think BamaRider hit the nail on the head and I do agree with him about going into a MOTORCYCLE showroom versus the HUNTIN' showrooms that have taken over the Japanese bike dealers. Those four wheelers and side by sides make them their living and I understand that. Visited with our local dealer the other day and he indicated that the four wheel stuff makes up about 85% of their business in the current climate so you really can't blame them.

I ride mostly solo but do go out with friends and they all ride Harleys and they actually ride them past the corner bar. Eight of us went to Key West last March and it was a very enjoyable trip. Everyone packed and ready to go at first light and buzzing down the road.

The Harley dealership is the center of a culture that for the most part is regular folks just like us that enjoy being around each other and buying stuff. Who cares if they only ride 25 miles to go eat Catfish on Friday night. If that floats your boat then power to you.

Personally, anything that includes "Road Captain" in it is not going to include myself. That means too many people and a pack going down the road.

Another plus for the HD crowd is when it comes to charitable activities they bury all other mc makes combined and by a huge margin. I make some of those occasionally (Toys for Tots, Christmas Coats for Kids) because they are a worthwhile effort for the community. Cudos to the culture for those efforts!!

The bikes are also very nice eye candy and I like the sound of them. One of my fondest memories was once I rode up to the Capulin volcano crater on the way to Raton, NM and went up the crater and hiked up to the top of the rim. Spectacular view from there. It was pretty early in the morning and the air was damp. Off in the distance I could hear a guy on his Harley just riding for a long time out through the distance with those pipes just playing their music.

I have been on some of my friends Harley's from time to time and I just can't get it. That heel toe thing just ain't right! And floorboards should be on Model T's not motorbikes. Remember in 2000 when the big thing for Harley was sealed wheel bearings? Really?

I do tip my hat to Harley Davidson for their marketing, on the road support for their riders, and the following they have built. I respect those folks and the people who ride them. We all rib each other about what we ride and that's ok.
When Harley does good, we all do good. I hope they can get their manufacturing worked out and the faithful doesn't desert them. If I could put a bike together in Thailand and sell it for 60% less than one that is imported that has to increase sales and that is the name of the game after all. Doesn't make them any less than what they are. They are just playing the hand they have been dealt.

And here we all are supporting Honda that left us in the cold 6 years ago with nary a follow up. Those Harley folks probably say why would you support something that left you high and dry and now it's either a Wing or a Fourtrax, in camo naturally.

The old ST is still a pretty good bike...……...