Accessing the Rear Brake Master Cylinder

[St1300biker]

During the Covid lockdown, I thought I would overhaul my braking system (other than the SMC) and my question relates to accessing the Rear Brake Master Cylinder, which I need to remove.

The Service Manual(SM) says the Step Holder (i.e. footrest bracket) has to be removed. This bracket is held in place with 4 bolts and links 2 parts of the sub-frame.

Now a number of members and the suppliers of the aftermarket rear crash bars, have warned about NOT removing both of the 2 rear bolts simultaneously. However, I cannot see how the bracket can be removed without removing all 4 bracket bolts, without making a metal bar linking both parts of the sub-frame in order to provide the same support.

It should be noted that the SM gives no warning of possible sagging nor that special action needs to be taken.

So I have 2 questions:-

1. How serious is the risk of the sub-frame sagging slightly and

2. if the risk is serious, what can be done to remove it?

I am sure there must be many members out there who have refurbished their rear brake master cylinder, and so are able to comment on their experiences.

Thanks

Paul

 

[ST11Nut]

I swapped out my police subframe with a standard subframe. To get everything to line up you simply need to use a line up bar/screwdriver whatever works in one of the rear holes to line up the other one to start the bolt. Once one of the bolts is lined up the other one will go right in.

I've never refurbished the rear brake MC so I can't comment on that.

 

[St1300biker]

I swapped out my police subframe with a standard subframe. To get everything to line up you simply need to use a line up bar/screwdriver whatever works in one of the rear holes to line up the other one to start the bolt. Once one of the bolts is lined up the other one will go right in.

I've never refurbished the rear brake MC so I can't comment on that.

Dan, can you please enlighten me as to what a "line-up bar/screwdriver" is?

Paul

 

[ST11Nut]

Any bar with a tapered pointed end. A large Philips screwdriver may also work.

Here's a link to Amazon for line up bars - Amazon.com : line up bar

 

[dduelin]

Dan, can you please enlighten me as to what a "line-up bar/screwdriver" is?

Paul

Not Dan but I used a brass drift for this. A tapered punch like a spike. You don't want to bugger up the threads in the frame if you can help it.

It's been a while since I've had to remove the step plate but I don't recall you need a metal plate to hold everything together. The subframe bolts to the step plate and this supports the subframe and the weight it carries. The subframe bolts to the frame in four places. Removing one step plate allows the subframe to sag a little on that side but it's still supported at the other three points. The step plate bolts to the frame but it doesn't support anything other than the rear subframe, the foot pegs, and the muffler on that side. The frame the step plate bolts isn't going anywhere or need the step plate to hold alignment.

 

[Igofar]

Instead of prying and damaging stuff, and bending your tools, you could always use a small bottle jack and lift things up to line them up

 

[SMSW]

I believe steelworkers call those spud bars. This word is commonly used for a long steel bar with a flat chisel end used for digging, however, a late ironworker friend called the linked tapered 'line up bars' spud bars. If you look for iron worker tools, they show a crescent adjustable wrench with a tapered bar tail and call it a spud wrench. That might be why my buddy used that term. His crew used them daily to line up bolt/rivet holes in big steel I-beams when erecting the skeleton of a building.

 

[dduelin]

A jack might work too if there is room to get it in under there and lined up to push up on the tip of the bottom of the subframe. I suspect the rear wheel would have to be removed but maybe not, and if the holes are slightly out of alignment fore and aft a jack is a waste of time.

To be sure, there is very little effort involved here with lining up the holes. Certainly not to the level of bending and damaging tool steel but a careless person might damage the threads in the subframe by prying with a flat blade screwdriver. The tapered drifts I have I got from my dad's garage and were suitable for working on airplanes so I guess a master mechanic knows what they are and how to use them. I'm far from that but glad I have them for the few times I've needed one.

 

[St1300biker]

So I am correct in assuming no one on this forum has removed their rear master cylinder?

Paul

 

[dduelin]

I removed the right step plate to remove the shock absorber. Removing the step plate is also part of the sequence of disassembly to remove the rear master cylinder.

There is no need to fabricate anything to hold the frame together.

Do you have a Honda service manual?

 

[St1300biker]

Do you have a Honda service manual?

Yes as implicit in post #1

 

[dduelin]

Yes as implicit in post #1

Then follow the procedure 17-25. You will find the step plate does not link two parts of the subframe. It links the subframe to the frame however the subframe is still supported at three locations after the step plate is removed.

 

[St1300biker]

Then follow the procedure 17-25. You will find the step plate does not link two parts of the subframe. It links the subframe to the frame however the subframe is still supported at three locations after the step plate is removed.

Many thanks, Dave.

So it seems that the fears of others are unfounded?

Paul

 

[Igofar]

I have removed several rear master cylinders, as well as rear shocks, and never needed to pry anything getting them back together etc.
I use a small bottle jack under the drive shaft and lift everything up to put it back together.
No reason to fear it, follow the manual and you'll be fine.
While your in there, may I suggest removing the rear shock bolt and reversing it.
This way if you ever want to remove the shock you won't have to pull the side plate again.

 

[Sadlsor]

While your in there, may I suggest removing the rear shock bolt and reversing it.
This way if you ever want to remove the shock you won't have to pull the side plate again.

Proving once again, there is no better substitute than personal experience.
However, in some instances we must bear in mind, that it may be preferable to take note of OPE*.
Because I don't have enough time to make all the mistakes myself.

*OPE: Other Peoples' Experience

 

[St1300biker]

While your in there, may I suggest removing the rear shock bolt and reversing it.

Thanks Larry

 

[St1300biker]

I use a small bottle jack under the drive shaft and lift everything up to put it back together.

The last time I removed my mufflers and rear wheel, had terrible job lining up the muffler bolts on the right side when re-installing. Maybe use your suggestion next time.

Paul

 

[Sadlsor]

The last time I removed my mufflers and rear wheel, had terrible job lining up the muffler bolts on the right side when re-installing. Maybe use your suggestion next time.

This seems unusual. I'm certainly no @Igofar, and I'm not the oldest kid on the block with the ST, but I've had to move the mufflers a couple of times or three, for tire issues.
I have not had any issue replacing / reinstalling these muffler bolts. I DO have a newer / lower-mileage 1300 than many here, so maybe mine's not crusted up yet like some others.
SO, from the basics (as I don't know, and didn't see ya doing it), have you loosened the 2 muffler clamp bolts on each side, where the muffler connects to the header pipe? If these are relatively clean, the mufflers should rotate fairly easily. I move them back into position and then attach the front and the back muffler mounting bolts, each side, with absolutely no problem at all. IIRC these are the 12mm and 10mm? I know they are 2 different sizes, which doesn't make sense to me.
Lastly I secure those 2 muffler clamp nuts on either side. But not too tight.
I'm trying to visualize why / how aligning the muffler hanger tabs and bolts with the mounting holes would be a challenge.
(But do note that I have my own talent with making simple maintenance, much more complex than need be.)

 

[St1300biker]

This seems unusual. I'm certainly no @Igofar, and I'm not the oldest kid on the block with the ST, but I've had to move the mufflers a couple of times or three, for tire issues.
I have not had any issue replacing / reinstalling these muffler bolts. I DO have a newer / lower-mileage 1300 than many here, so maybe mine's not crusted up yet like some others.
SO, from the basics (as I don't know, and didn't see ya doing it), have you loosened the 2 muffler clamp bolts on each side, where the muffler connects to the header pipe? If these are relatively clean, the mufflers should rotate fairly easily. I move them back into position and then attach the front and the back muffler mounting bolts, each side, with absolutely no problem at all. IIRC these are the 12mm and 10mm? I know they are 2 different sizes, which doesn't make sense to me.
Lastly I secure those 2 muffler clamp nuts on either side. But not too tight.
I'm trying to visualize why / how aligning the muffler hanger tabs and bolts with the mounting holes would be a challenge.
(But do note that I have my own talent with making simple maintenance, much more complex than need be.)

Replaced all clamps+bolts. Completely removed mufflers, cleaned inside of exhaust pipe and fitted new seals.
All I can think is that I didn't remove all the old seal/crud inside pipe. No problem on left side. I tried fitting right side first but no easier.

Paul

 

[Andrew Shadow]

When re-installing the muffler, if the end of the muffler pipe was misaligned with the opening of the muffler seal, instead of penetrating the full depth of the seal it may catch the seal and dig in to it preventing the pipe from sliding deep enough in to it. If it digs in hard enough, this can prevent the muffler pipe from penetrating far enough to allow proper alignment of the attaching bolts.