Adjusting rear shock preload to "standard" setting

[Obo]

If he can lift it, we all can.

 

[Moses2]

This is my first St. As a matter of fact, this is the first bike over 400 pounds that I've ever had to put up on a center stand. I have yet to fill up my preload adjuster with hydraulic oil, and see if that changes the compression at the rear wheel. An earlier poster said that it would make a difference of 10 mm. By putting less than half an inch of rubber underneath the rear wheel the bike went up just like the videos and I want to think I applied to technique of the same. I used the handle in my right hand more to just steady myself then lift the motorcycle. It became just a point that I would push down with my right leg from. When I get the preload setup properly I will try it without the rubber, and I believe that I'm going to have the same result as those in the video that put the bike up easily. Happy Thanksgiving to you all

 

[ST Gui]

I think of it as using my body strength to separate the lift handle from the stand pedal. The bike just goes along for the ride.

This is exactly how I do it. But it takes a bit more strength than I can easily muster. A few months in the gym just for drill would benefit me in a number of ways.

And yet somehow...

That would be the informative bit. Because without any lifting I'd think you could center stand the bike with no hands. Well maybe a finger or two to keep it vertical until both centers stand feet touch ground before putting it on the stand.

I don't know why there would be a difference.

There are variables as mentioned. Anything that reduces the height from the center stand pivot(s) to the ground adds resistance to getting the bike on it. Tire pressure tire diameter (as in smaller that factory tires) possibly preload adjustment modification to the front and rear suspension are all things that alone or in concert would affect standing the bike to different degrees depending on the individual owner. A good tailwind might impeded my ability.

I put this under the rear tire,and the bike went up with me just standing with my weight on the center stand. Easy. 1/2" made all the difference. No lifting. Thanks!

Now that's what I'm talkin' bout.

You use the strength of your leg, not the deadweight of 200+ pounds.

This would seem to work in conjuction with Larry Fine's method.

Anyway I'll make a little chuck of wood for the rear tire. (That seems like it might be more convenient than the front.) The equine can rest in peace.

 

[ST Gui]

There are videos on YouTube.

I've seen the video of a 12yro girl lifting up a 'Wing. I haven't seen her lift an ST1300 and fully doubt she could do it. You're talking apples and oranges.

Interestingly I have less trouble putting my 'Wing buddy's 2005 on the center stand than my ST and he finds it harder to put my ST on its stand than his Wing. There's lots of reasons that girl could right a Wing and not an ST. Now maybe if she's Russian...

You've said it can be done (without any lifting) but have given no information that I've seen as to how. I may have missed it. Apologies if I did but if I didn't then there's every reason for those who can't to say they can't do it. Note that's not the same as it can't be done. More apples and oranges.

dduelin's post explains how he applies physics to stand the bike. Now this is what I do yet I have trouble accomplishing the task. I get it done but it ain't easy for me. I've also made it clear what I have to do to help - less gas in the tank more air in the tires. Others might not notice the effects but I do. So I'll use a board.

Funny thing about motorcycle discussions. They often degrade from an exchange of actual useful information to an 'I'm a better motorcyclist than you' dynamic. In reality that benefits no one.

 

[Obo]

The bike height aside, when you're putting it on the stand it depends on if you see it as holding the side handle and pressing down with your leg vs standing on the stand and lifting up. Either way you have force applied downward on your leg and upward on your arm. (Unless you are standing on the ground and just trying to lift with the handle) I agree though you can have more force on your leg or arm depending on how you are lifting.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

Two thoughts came to mind while reading this.
1- I wonder how much effect a sticking or seizing centre-stand pivot would have. There have been a few posts here about people who's centre-stand pivot was so seized that it was just about impossible to remove the pivot bolt. I wonder if we just don't notice how much it is binding because we manipulate it with the strength of our leg as opposed to our hands. At the same time one would think that if it were binding enough to really make a difference you would have a situation where the spring would not be able to retract the stand.

2- Many people seem to have adopted the use of a shim to raise the front or rear wheel to be able to accomplish putting the bike on the centre-stand. Nothing wrong with that and I am not critical of that at all. What I do wonder however, is if a person never figures out if they can put the bike on the centre-stand without that shim and how to accomplish that, will they be able to put it on the centre-stand on the side of the road somewhere if the bike suffers some kind of an issue that would require putting it on the centre-stand. If this really is a matter of technique rather than strength it is better to figure that out in the comfort of your garage than the side of the road.

 

[Moses2]

Update 3-8-20. Removing, emptying/cleaning, and refilling the dampening unit and shock line with oil, I was able to set the preload correctly (thanks Igofar) , set the rear tire pressure to 42#, and I can now put the bike on the center stand by stepping down on the tang and using the spring loaded lever to steady and leverage
as I lean toward the rear of the bike ,without any problem. I believe that low tire pressure and the absence of oil in the damper had alot to do with the problem I was having. I also am sharing a pic of a fastener I found to work well with the front faring windshield area. Many thanks to all members.

 

[Obo]

Update 3-8-20. Removing, emptying/cleaning, and refilling the dampening unit and shock line with oil, I was able to set the preload correctly (thanks Igofar) , set the rear tire pressure to 42#, and I can now put the bike on the center stand by stepping down on the tang and using the spring loaded lever to steady and leverage
as I lean toward the rear of the bike ,without any problem. I believe that low tire pressure and the absence of oil in the damper had alot to do with the problem I was having. I also am sharing a pic of a fastener I found to work well with the front faring windshield area. Many thanks to all members.

Glad you got it sorted! Amazing how small things can make a huge difference.

 

[Duporth]

I assume insufficient rear preload can cause the bike to squat in corners too. I seem to touch the side of my boot all too often.

I checked my ST's preload this morning, which I had set at 7 clicks ages ago (I am a solo rider). I found I could roll on a further 7 clicks before meeting any resistance at all, and I stopped at 14.

Any ideas on what I can do now would be appreciated.

Thanks D

 

[dduelin]

These out to get you going in the right direction. After you refill and bleed the preload adjuster consider returning the preload to zero when the bike sits for more than a day or two. I adopted that custom and my preload adjuster never needed attention again for many years and tens of thousands of miles. I believe the rubber hose to the shock swells over time with heat cycles and constant pressure when preload is left on. FWIW the same Showa preload adjuster on the Honda Goldwing does the same thing and loses adjustment over time and miles.

Article [13] - ST1300 - Pre-load Fluid Replacement | ST1300 Articles

Here are some pictures I took when I serviced the preload adjuster on a spare shock I have. I bought this off the forum with 9,000 miles on it. 10,000 miles later it took 12 clicks for the adjuster to start working. In the first pic the preload is completely screwed in or to the Hard setting and...

www.st-owners.com

Article [13] - ST1300 - Rear suspension / Resetting the pre-load adjustor [Video] | ST1300 Articles

Hi all, Recently read an article about issues with the preload adjustor and how to fix them. I followed the guide and sorted mine today, so thought I would make a video showing the process in the entirety. Thank you for the guide, and here's a link to the video.

www.st-owners.com

 

[Shawn K]

I assume insufficient rear preload can cause the bike to squat in corners too. I seem to touch the side of my boot all too often.

I checked my ST's preload this morning, which I had set at 7 clicks ages ago (I am a solo rider). I found I could roll on a further 7 clicks before meeting any resistance at all, and I stopped at 14.

Any ideas on what I can do now would be appreciated.

Thanks D

Remove and refill the preload adjuster. It can be done in 30 minutes if you don't dally. Dduelin gave you a few good links above.

 

[Duporth]

Great help there Dave and Shawn. Many thanks. It will be my next ST job and a new learning for me
D

 

[Duporth]

Thank you very much for this help John. I will add the preload as you suggest - up to 21 clicks, see how that goes, and defer refilling the preload adjuster for now. I am desperate to ride after a looong few weeks off the road , servicing, checking valves etc..
I will have a look at the damping too.
Many thanks again.
D

 

[Shawn K]

the preload does not make the suspension stiffer. The preload just lifts the back end so that when rider, pillion and luggage are added, the ride height is correct.

THANK YOU!

I used to be a part of another bike forum where people were ALWAYS mistaking increased preload for "stiffer". I got tired of trying to explain that once you're compressing the spring, all that additional preload does is raise the ride height.

There's an awful lot of people who fundamentally misunderstand how suspension works.

 

[tmoldovan]

THANK YOU!

I used to be a part of another bike forum where people were ALWAYS mistaking increased preload for "stiffer". I got tired of trying to explain that once you're compressing the spring, all that additional preload does is raise the ride height.

There's an awful lot of people who fundamentally misunderstand how suspension works.

Shawn, I’m one of those people not too familiar with suspension. I was under the impression that adjusting the preload higher, would in fact make the rear end respond “stiffer”. Is that not the case? (Or does it simply and only raise the rear, so if I have a load on the rear, it doesn’t bottom out when hitting a bump?)

Also, on the right/starboard side of the bike is a H/S screw adjuster. Does that do anything to suspension? (Am assuming that one Hardens or Softens it.)

 

[jfheath]

Or does it simply and only raise the rear, so if I have a load on the rear, it doesn’t bottom out when hitting a bump?

That is correct. It doesn't make the spring stiffer. The only way you can make the spring stiffer, is to put a stiffer spring in ! In fact, raising the rear is a side effect. The piston inside the damper needs to be roughly in the middle when you are sitting on the bike (with load). That gives it the full range of travel up and down to cope with bumps. If you are going to put more load on the bike, then you need to wind that piston up a bit so that it is in the middle when you get on the bike. The effect of that, is that it lifts the tail.

If you bottom out, add more preload. If it feels twitch then that may be because the back is too high which alters the steering angle - take off some preload.

But you cannot make the spring stiffer. When you load up the bike, the spring will measure the same length whether you have preload or not. So it doesn't squash it more either. It just puts that piston somewhere near the middle.

The adjuster on the right hand side is the damper. This adjusts the rate at which the spring returns after hitting a bump. You don't want it to bounce back too quickly or you Pan becomes a Pogo stick. Set it to the standard setting as described in the handbook. If you find that it bounces along the road - boing boing boing - or wallows in corners then you need more damping. Make it harder. You tend to need it a bit harder when you load the bike up.

 

[dduelin]

Shawn, I’m one of those people not too familiar with suspension. I was under the impression that adjusting the preload higher, would in fact make the rear end respond “stiffer”. Is that not the case? (Or does it simply and only raise the rear, so if I have a load on the rear, it doesn’t bottom out when hitting a bump?)

Also, on the right/starboard side of the bike is a H/S screw adjuster. Does that do anything to suspension? (Am assuming that one Hardens or Softens it.)

In regards to setting preload know that the 900# spring on the stock ST1300 shock is optimized for a solo rider of 180 lbs or less. The spring cannot be adequately preloaded for significantly heavier riders and probably all two-up couples. We know this from static and rider sag measurements.

The H/S screw changes how the shock's internal valving dampens the compression and rebound stroke. You might find this ST1300 article video helpful to understanding how adjustments to damping affect the rear suspension and practical results of adjusting the H/S screw:

Article [13] - ST1300 - Setting rear shock rebound adj [VIDEO] | ST1300 Articles

I thought that this short video might illustrate how changes to the rebound adjustment screw affects how the rear shock works and how to find a starting point for your shock.

www.st-owners.com

 

[Shawn K]

Shawn, I’m one of those people not too familiar with suspension. I was under the impression that adjusting the preload higher, would in fact make the rear end respond “stiffer”. Is that not the case? (Or does it simply and only raise the rear, so if I have a load on the rear, it doesn’t bottom out when hitting a bump?)

Also, on the right/starboard side of the bike is a H/S screw adjuster. Does that do anything to suspension? (Am assuming that one Hardens or Softens it.)

As jfheath and dduelin pointed out, spring rate is fixed. It's measured in lb./in. (the number of pounds of weight it takes to compress the spring one inch). In Metric countries it's kg/mm, but the same principle applies - weight vs. amount of spring compression.

The only way to increase "stiffness" (resistance to compression) is to replace the spring with one that's stiffer (i.e. higher lb./in. rate). That's the whole basis of the aftermarket suspension industry.

Assuming that you're using a stock rear shock and that you're not going to go through the process of replacing the spring, then you need to make sure that your preload / ride height is set correctly. To do this, you need to start by making sure that your preload adjuster is emptied and completely refilled with fresh oil (there are threads on the forum about this). Turn the adjuster knob fully counter-clockwise (zero preload), then put on all of your riding gear and sit on the bike. Have someone take a tape measure and measure from the ground to the bottom of the rear fender. The measurement you're looking for is 12.25 inches - if it's less than that, then start turning the preload adjuster clockwise until you reach that 12.25" measurement at the fender.

(NOTE: The fender measurement I gave you is a poor-man's shortcut. I'm not complicating things by explaining the proper method of measuring suspension sag. Long story short, you should have about 30% sag with a rider in full gear sitting on the bike, which on an ST1300 is 1.5 inches of sag, which correlates to 12.25" from the fender to the ground, assuming that you have a stock, unmodified fender.)

After that, turn your attention to the rebound damping adjuster (the screw adjustment at the base of the shock, on the right side of the bike). The rebound damping adjustment controls the speed at which the spring extends to it's normal length after being compressed. The higher the number, the more slowly the spring extends after being compressed. Since you're coming into this topic fresh, my recommendation is that you place the adjuster at the #2 setting (or the second notch from fully counter-clockwise). In all honesty, that'll probably be just fine for most riding, and will keep you from getting bogged down with excessive tinkering.

 

[tmoldovan]

Wonderful, Thank you guys! I just replaced the oil in my preload adjuster today, so that’s what prompted the question!
On my test drive, the bike seemed to handle much better, but that may be placebo. More riding is necessary to confirm the results

Ok, I will go and sit on it now and have my wife measure the distance to the rear fender.

 

[dduelin]

As jfheath and dduelin pointed out, spring rate is fixed. It's measured in lb./in. (the number of pounds of weight it takes to compress the spring one inch). In Metric countries it's kg/mm, but the same principle applies - weight vs. amount of spring compression.

The only way to increase "stiffness" (resistance to compression) is to replace the spring with one that's stiffer (i.e. higher lb./in. rate). That's the whole basis of the aftermarket suspension industry.

Assuming that you're using a stock rear shock and that you're not going to go through the process of replacing the spring, then you need to make sure that your preload / ride height is set correctly. To do this, you need to start by making sure that your preload adjuster is emptied and completely refilled with fresh oil (there are threads on the forum about this). Turn the adjuster knob fully counter-clockwise (zero preload), then put on all of your riding gear and sit on the bike. Have someone take a tape measure and measure from the ground to the bottom of the rear fender. The measurement you're looking for is 12.25 inches - if it's less than that, then start turning the preload adjuster clockwise until you reach that 12.25" measurement at the fender.

(NOTE: The fender measurement I gave you is a poor-man's shortcut. I'm not complicating things by explaining the proper method of measuring suspension sag. Long story short, you should have about 30% sag with a rider in full gear sitting on the bike, which on an ST1300 is 1.5 inches of sag, which correlates to 12.25" from the fender to the ground, assuming that you have a stock, unmodified fender.)

After that, turn your attention to the rebound damping adjuster (the screw adjustment at the base of the shock, on the right side of the bike). The rebound damping adjustment controls the speed at which the spring extends to it's normal length after being compressed. The higher the number, the more slowly the spring extends after being compressed. Since you're coming into this topic fresh, my recommendation is that you place the adjuster at the #2 setting (or the second notch from fully counter-clockwise). In all honesty, that'll probably be just fine for most riding, and will keep you from getting bogged down with excessive tinkering.

A stock ST1300 shock's rebound adjustment is a screw with approximate 3 turns from full soft to full hard. It doesn't have numbers or notches. Do you have an aftermarket shock with a different method of adjusting rebound compression?

The owner' manual suggests to fully harden the rebound - turn the H/S screw clockwise to fully seated or fully hard, then back out counter clockwise 1 turn. There are no notches. That is a good starting point.