All Key Lost - 2009 Honda St1300

[jfheath]

OK, thanks- I guess they’re (the 1300s) all built that way? We (brother and I) only have one key (as far as I know) for the 04, so I guess I better have him make a copy.

No - they are not all built that way. I know European bikes have HISS. I believe South African have HISS and I think Oz have HISS.
As far as I know, no USA bikes have HISS fitted.

HISS (Honda Ignition Security System) is are marked with HISS on the speedo 5 o'clock position.

Check out the videos that I made in this post, to see it working. Basically if your fuel pump springs into life for a few seconds when your ignition is turned on without a chipped key, then you don't have HISS. With HISS, it's not just any chipped key - the chip and the ECU have to match so that they can talk to each other.

Article [13] - ST1300 - HISS - Dash behaviour with paired and unpaired keys. | ST1300 Articles

In the next three posts, I have a video of three different situation showing the dash of an ST1300 equipped with HISS (Honda's Immobilsor System), used on all European bikes, and in a number of other countries. Video #1 - Using the correct chipped key to successfully start the engine. Watch...

www.st-owners.com

 

[Andrew Shadow]

No ST1300's sold new from Honda in North America came equipped with HISS.

 

[ST1100Y]

OK, thanks- I guess they’re (the 1300s) all built that way? We (brother and I) only have one key (as far as I know) for the 04, so I guess I better have him make a copy.

I was under the impression that US models don't feature HISS?

If it is equipped with such, it'll show so on the ring/antenna around the ignition lock

 

[Sadlsor]

Honda Ignition Security System
basically a small RFID part inside the plastic key handle and a circular transducer/antenna around the ignition lock barrel...
When you turn the ign ON the ECU "reads" the presence (or absence) of the (pre-programmed) RFID tingy to give a GO or NO-GO...

Oh, so THAT'S where BMW got their idea for a "keyless" ignition system.
I still like my GSA, but I also still think it's a stoopit idea.

 

[ST1100Y]

Oh, so THAT'S where BMW got their idea for a "keyless" ignition system.

Yeah, this was the next step...
Before it was just intended/sold as an increased anti-theft device, so even when someone actually manage to make a copy of the key, he/she still couldn't get away due the RIFD missing...
It developed in parallel with the increased CPU power of EFI-ECU (the ST1100 has an ICU, only managing ignition timing), already my '96 Toyota has it...

IMO are such "features" only sales points (I purposely omitted the term "merits" there), making products more complex hence expensive, whilst help to shorten the lifespan, cause when such a deep embedded system starts to act up, the whole vehicle is rendered to a pile of junk...
They all only want your best... your money...

Previously thugs needed to at least scan your radio-remote key right while you're opening/closing your car, now they simply scan your key-less fob while walking by your front door... turn around, walk to your oh so safe key-less vehicle and drive off...

 

[ST Pili]

Oh, so THAT'S where BMW got their idea for a "keyless" ignition system.
I still like my GSA, but I also still think it's a stoopit idea.

My latest car has keyless start and I love it. On the bike I can’t count how many times I’ve put my gloves on before taking the key out of my pocket. Yes, I’m like the absent minded professor but without the intelligence. I would love keyless on the ST.

 

[Erdoc48]

I was under the impression that US models don't feature HISS?

If it is equipped with such, it'll show so on the ring/antenna around the ignition lock

Thanks for this- I researched a bit and found the US spec bikes don’t have this system, so a regular key will do.

 

[Sadlsor]

On the bike I can’t count how many times I’ve put my gloves on before taking the key out of my pocket. Yes, I’m like the absent minded professor but without the intelligence. I would love keyless on the ST.

It will keep you sharp,... hopefully.
Possible scenario:
Fob is in a jacket pocket, close to the garaged bike.
You put on a different jacket, start the bike (because the fob is in range.)
Ride out of the garage, close the garage door, ride for 10 minutes and THEN notice the Alert on your TFT: "WARNING! Fob is out of range. You will not be able to restart the engine."
Or worse, ride till you see the Low Fuel alert, pull in to the gas station, and then also notice the fob out of range message.
Uh-oh! Can't open your gas cap without the fob, or the silly fake plastic key with the RFID.
OR your battery is down, and you can't start it because you don't have a spare CR-2032 battery with you.
In my mind, this foolish "convenience feature" disables the owners, more often than potential bike thieves.
It's just a thing. Keep your wits about you, don't lose your one-and-only key fob, always carry your "spare" crappy plastic key, and keep a spare 2033 battery on the bike somewhere.
I have several riding jackets, so I have to be super-aware of where the dang thing is all the time.
Antidote for aging?

 

[DannoXYZ]

Yeah all these extra “features” for convenience and supposedly security. Anyone found any actual studies showing HISS reduces theft? Or how much time keyless entry/starting actually saves for owners?

Personally I think downsides when such stuff breaks or acts up costs owners way, way more time & money than benefits offered when it was working.

 

[DannoXYZ]

Thanks for this- I researched a bit and found the US spec bikes don’t have this system, so a regular key will do.

Do you have metal tag with key-code that came with original keys? Or written in owners manual?

Best to use key-code to make brand-new key rather than copying used key as your copy will end up pre-worn.

 

[Hound]

OK, thanks- I guess they’re (the 1300s) all built that way? We (brother and I) only have one key (as far as I know) for the 04, so I guess I better have him make a copy.

If your bike has HISS (and many American STs don't) it will have a ring antenna around the ignition key switch with "HISS" printed on the top part. It will also say "HISS" on the speedo, with a red LED next to it.

If you have neither of these, you don't have HISS or a chipped key.

 

[Larry Fine]

Best to use key-code to make brand-new key rather than copying used key as your copy will end up pre-worn.

Don't keys and locks wear together, suggesting that copies should fit better?

 

[DannoXYZ]

Don't keys and locks wear together, suggesting that copies should fit better?

It's actually the opposite. As keys and locks wear, the less tumblers line up and refuses to turn.



1. with no key inserted, bottom end of wafers (red) don't line up with inner plug (yel) and cylinder won't turn.
2-3. with key inserted, its ridges push up on wafer just optimum amount to line up with outside of plug and cylinder turns

As key or lock wafers wear out, wafers' outside edges line up with outside of plug less and less and cylinder gets harder and harder to turn. Worse case scenario is worn key + worn lock as this would have largest gap between key-to-wafer and most mis-alignment between end of wafers & outside of plug. At least with brand-new key in worn-out lock, you'd have only 1/2 the displacement error as with worn key+ worn lock.

While it's true that really worn-out wafers outside-edges need less movement to clear cylinders, this is balanced by extra clearance on inside of wafers. New key would still move them more than worn key and allow easier turning compared to worn key on edge of not allowing wafers to clear.

 

[jfheath]

Wow @Hound. 6.4 Miles / litre Average ?
That was an exciting ride, or a lot of time stuck in traffic !!

 

[ST Pili]

It will keep you sharp,... hopefully.
Possible scenario:
Fob is in a jacket pocket, close to the garaged bike.
You put on a different jacket, start the bike (because the fob is in range.)
Ride out of the garage, close the garage door, ride for 10 minutes and THEN notice the Alert on your TFT: "WARNING! Fob is out of range. You will not be able to restart the engine."
Or worse, ride till you see the Low Fuel alert, pull in to the gas station, and then also notice the fob out of range message.
Uh-oh! Can't open your gas cap without the fob, or the silly fake plastic key with the RFID.
OR your battery is down, and you can't start it because you don't have a spare CR-2032 battery with you.
In my mind, this foolish "convenience feature" disables the owners, more often than potential bike thieves.
It's just a thing. Keep your wits about you, don't lose your one-and-only key fob, always carry your "spare" crappy plastic key, and keep a spare 2033 battery on the bike somewhere.
I have several riding jackets, so I have to be super-aware of where the dang thing is all the time.
Antidote for aging?

lol I’ve thought about that, if it happens with the car. No antidote I’ve found yet

 

[Erdoc48]

Do you have metal tag with key-code that came with original keys? Or written in owners manual?

Best to use key-code to make brand-new key rather than copying used key as your copy will end up pre-worn.

My brother in Colorado has the key, so let me pass this information on to him to see if he has the key code

 

[Andrew Shadow]

Oh, so THAT'S where BMW got their idea for a "keyless" ignition system.
I still like my GSA, but I also still think it's a stoopit idea.

It is a stupid idea in my opinion as well. Car thefts have gone through the roof because stealing cars with keyless technology is so easy. It is so bad that police forces are harassing auto manufacturers to do something.

Convenience? What convenience?
My wife's car is keyless with two fobs. We had to buy two Faraday pouches to keep them in. Everytime that you want to use the car you have to fool around with a Faraday pouch. Everytime you come home you have to fool around with a Faraday pouch. Every time that you go somewhere you have to consider if you are parked within range of the fob and then decide if you need to fool around with the Faraday pouch. The PITA factor outweighs the convenience.

My vehicle is not keyless. I can just grab the keys and be off and not worry about any of that. Almost every keyed car has remote door locks and remote trunk release, so they are just as easy and convenient to use as a keyless vehicle.

The biggest convenience is the one offered to thieves. It is forcing the need for counter-measures that have made keyless ignition less convenient for owners, not more convenient.

 

[DannoXYZ]

Keyless entry may also be cost-cutting measure. No need to deal with mechanical locks all over car. Just replace with some simple solenoids and use up some of that excess computing power in ECU to listen on RF-ID antennae.

 

[Hound]

Wow @Hound. 6.4 Miles / litre Average ?
That was an exciting ride, or a lot of time stuck in traffic !!

Ha! Not my bike, John, just a photo I swiped off the 'net to show the HISS bits.

My poorly ST1300 is still in storage and mileage is at 27,623.

 

[ST1100Y]

Don't keys and locks wear together, suggesting that copies should fit better?

Depends on who is operating the mill, and how bad the original key is already damaged...

GF's '07 NT700VA uses the same awfully long shanks as the ST1300, bought used one key already showed a crack, soon after she'd managed to bend/twist the other one...
Obtained some blank ones (OEM design to shelter the RFID thingy), ended up with:
- one not working at all (only on the short pannier and fairing lid tumblers)
- one jamming slightly, requires some wiggling to align/release the wafers
- two working flawlessly (which received the RFID then)

An annual brief blow with graphite powder into the lock/tumbler helps largely on ensuring flawless operation and reducing friction/wear of key and wafers.