Its all in lighthearted fun. Were we all dead serious old guys this website would not be as enjoyable as it is. No harm was intended, I'm sure of that.
Last edited:
Alternative Moly Grease and Paste
- Thread starter St1300biker
- Start date
Andrew Shadow
Site Supporter
I don't disagree agree.
The only answer that I can offer to you is that John (@jfheath), the member whose post I linked to in post # 4 above, has researched this product. If I remember correctly he received a response from Rocol stating that this product is the replacement for what is listed in the Honda manual and that this product meets all of the requirements of the previous NLGI 2 paste and was suitable for use in this application. I can not provide a further answer regarding whether it makes a significant difference or not as this is beyond my knowledge of the differences between the various NLGI grades.
You can also just go with what Honda has replaced their Moly 60 paste with as Dave (@dduelin) stated in post #19 above. You will find that this replacement has been met with much skepticism as well. Whether any of that skepticism is well founded or not is a whole other debate that has been had on this forum and another issue that you will have to decide for yourself.
As I wrote earlier, you will need to do the research on whatever product that you intend to use. If the results of that research satisfy you that that product meets the requirements stipulated by Honda, than you have answered your question. If you do a search on this forum you will find that people have found quite a few products that meet the requirements of Honda. Several of them being in the UK and have posted where these products can be procured from UK suppliers. I doubt that any of them will be available as cheaply as the one that you have posted however. High MoS2 content products just seem to be pricey. If what you have found turns out to be a suitable product than you have done well in finding it.
After you have used it on your splines for a few tire changes, report back and let us know if it is doing the job effectively. Having another viable option available at a cheaper price is never a bad thing and something many would certainly appreciate knowing about.
ReSTored
Site Supporter
I think using the right paste is important. Here is a picture of my splines last season at about 120,000km. They're in pretty good shape I think. But by all means you can use whatever you want and get back to us with how it worked out.
Fortunately, they look just like mine Phil !
OP
OP
It is well documented that the Honda Service Manual contains errors.
However, on the subject of this post there appears to be a number of inconsistencies. I've only been around for 5 minutes and so most of you may well be aware of the following in the 2003 Manual:-
1.Page 14-21 - Grease on splines in description and diagram. So this means 3% min. MoS2. Correct?
2. Page 16-10 - Description says paste (>40% MoS2) but diagram says grease 3%. Which is correct?
3. Page 16-11 - both description and diagram say paste (>40%)
So I don't know how some members can place their faith totally in the Honda Manual. I will use it with scepticism. At least the Haynes Manual says use paste or grease in places. The last person to service my bike torqued the oil filter to 26Nm (or more) recommended by Honda!
Paul
However, on the subject of this post there appears to be a number of inconsistencies. I've only been around for 5 minutes and so most of you may well be aware of the following in the 2003 Manual:-
1.Page 14-21 - Grease on splines in description and diagram. So this means 3% min. MoS2. Correct?
2. Page 16-10 - Description says paste (>40% MoS2) but diagram says grease 3%. Which is correct?
3. Page 16-11 - both description and diagram say paste (>40%)
So I don't know how some members can place their faith totally in the Honda Manual. I will use it with scepticism. At least the Haynes Manual says use paste or grease in places. The last person to service my bike torqued the oil filter to 26Nm (or more) recommended by Honda!
Paul
Andrew Shadow
Site Supporter
NO, not correct.
No. Paste does not necessarily mean > 40% MoS2. Grease does not necessarily mean 3% MoS2.
This, the specification called for, is the only thing that you should be considering, not the name used to describe the product.
As I replied earlier, you can not rely on the use of the term grease or paste as a determinant of the MoS2 content. They mean nothing as far as MoS2 content is concerned. At least one of the Honda Moly 77 products that is sold by Honda as a replacement for the Honda Moly-60 paste is called a grease. This product contains between 60 and 70% MoS2 according to the manufacturer, who is one of the suppliers to Honda. It is not labeled as a paste.
Grease or paste are marketing terms as much as anything else. They should not be given any technical weight in determining the content of MoS2. Emails from some MoS2 product manufacturers have stated so. The only thing that you should be looking at is if the MoS2 content meets the specifications of being called for where you intend to us it.
this is a topic where there is empirical evidence in both directions. Some people have had serious spline issues that appear to be due to improper lubrication, so the general consensus is use the best moly paste you can find just to be safe. For UK riding you're probably better off going the conservative route, I think I'm the only one on this forum who doesn't worry much about the whole moly paste thing. I live in SoCal and ride mostly in dry weather, so my experience over 23 years and 115k miles has been that its not that critical how well I lubricate the splines, or if I change the O-rings regularly (or not at all in my case).
yes this is true, but in the context of the OP's previous reply regarding the Honda manual they do mean something. The ST1100 manual clearly states that the moly grease icon designates >3% moly content, and the moly paste icon designates >40% moly content. I suspect the ST1300 manual is similar, and that was his reference point in the post, that Honda incorrectly interchanges both icons for the same application in different parts of the manual.
W0QNX
Blacksheep Tribal Member
- Joined
- May 30, 2006
- Messages
- 3,340
- Location
- Pensacola, FL. USA
- Bike
- 06/ST1300 19/R1250RT
- 2024 Miles
- 013608
That right there is called bad advice and pure dumb luck. Especially if you ride an ST1100. I'm not sure how anyone could believe riding in pleasant Sunny LA would give you a pass on good spline lubrication.
Like I've said several times before, TS-70 Moly is the good stuff, use it or something else with 60 or 70% Moly paste.
if you read my post again you'll see that I didn't advise the OP to follow my practice, in fact I stated exactly the opposite.
as in: "the general consensus is use the best moly paste you can find just to be safe. For UK riding you're probably better off going the conservative route"
For my own experience, I'm only providing anecdotal evidence, just like anyone else here, nothing more, nothing less. FWIW, a couple dozen others have already preached the "terribly bad practice" reply to me over the years, starting back in the '90s.
I never assumed my riding conditions would give me a pass, only that after decades of not paying much attention to what I did with the splines there was no evidence that it caused any problems. Call it dumb luck if you will, but it is what it is and I can't lie about it and say it ruined my splines. I'm only speculating that perhaps the lack of water intrusion has allowed me to be less than diligent with my maintenance and get away with it, while others were not so lucky, I dunno.
Last edited:
OP
OP
Andrew I read what you say but how do your comments square with the page at the front of the Manual headed Symbols. Surely this defines the % MoS2 to be used according to the diagrams? i.e. M is >3% and MP is >40%.
Paul
That's it, I just can't stuff any more 
into myself, so I have to leave this thread to others to contend with. The OP had his answer in the 3rd post!
into myself, so I have to leave this thread to others to contend with. The OP had his answer in the 3rd post!
This is an important distinction and one that I missed when I purchased the Loctite LB 8012 product. So I will no longer recommend their LB 8012 product to others and will look for another moly paste.
EDIT: There is another Loctite product (LB 8103) that is NLGI class 2. Here are differences between the 8012 and the 8103:
LOCTITE LB 8012
LOCTITE LB 8012 is a black, metal-free anti-seize lubricant with MoS2 and rust inhibitors in a brush top form. Formulated to protect assemblies during running-in periods, it resists high static loads and the MoS2 paste ensures maximum lubricity. It has an NLGI grade of one and is resistant to temperatures up to +400C.
• Metal-free
• Protects assemblies during running-in period
• Resists high static loads
• MoS2 paste insures maximum lubricity
• NLGI Grade 1
• Temperature resistant to +400C.
LOCTITE LB 8103
LOCTITE LB 8103 is a black, mineral oil and MoS2-based grease, which is suitable for heavy loads, withstands vibration and can be used on moving parts at all speeds. It is used in high stressed joints, plain and roller bearings, splines and socket joints, and slideways subjected to vibration and heavy loads. . It has an NLGI Class 2 rating and can withstand temperatures to +250C.
• Suitable for heavy loads and withstands vibration
• For moving parts at all speeds
• For higher-stressed joints, plain- and roller bearings, socket joints and slideways
• NLGI Class 2
Jeff
Last edited:
Andrew Shadow
Site Supporter
Correct. In my response I was not referring in any way to the description of the differences between the two in the context of what is contained in the Honda manual. I did a very poor job of making that clear in my answer. See below, hopefully I have done better.
You are correct. I wasn't attempting to square them at all. I wasn't referring to Honda's definition of the two and I did not make that clear.
My response was not intended to dispute or corroborate what Honda refers to as grease verses paste based on their definition of each. Nor was it intended to dispute what MoS2 content should be used where. It was intended to convey that the term grease or paste appearing on the label of a container is not an assurance that the product that you are purchasing is acceptable and meets the intended requirement because, whether that product is labeled as a grease or a paste, is not an assurance of any level of MoS2 content.
I was referring to any product that you might be considering purchasing. Honda's subjective definition of what is a grease and what is a paste is not transferable to the products that you will see available on the market. This is simply because the manufacturer's of these products do not adhere to Honda's definition of the two. As a matter of reference many of them use the terms grease and paste interchangeably by their own admission. Because of this, you need to be careful not to base your decision of what product to purchase solely based on whether it is called a grease or paste. Honda's very own Moly 77 is labeled, marketed, and sold by Honda as a grease. However, this product contains an MoS2 content of between 60 to 70% according to the manufacturer who makes it for Honda. Having this high a level of MoS2 content, one would think that it meets Honda's own definition of what a paste is yet they call it a grease.
My caution is that, in the determination of whether any product that you intend to use meets the requirements of where it will be applied, an undue focus on whether that product is labeled as a grease or a paste will not serve you well in determining its MoS2 content. The manufacturers and suppliers simply do not follow Honda's definition of the two. A determination of what MoS2 content is required for the intended application needs to be made. Once that has been determined, a product that is respective of that requirement should be sourced, regardless of whether it is labeled a grease or a paste.
Shawn K
Professional Cat Confuser
Just to muddy the water a bit, does anyone have data on Yamalube ACC-MOLDM-GS-10 ? I cant locate any sort of spec sheet or MSDS sheet on it, and for whatever reason I can't find it on Yamaha's Yamalube page. However, in all the years that I've been involved in bikes (and watching Dad work on them for over 40 years), I've never seen Yamalube products that were out-and-out junk. I just don't know what the specs are on this particular product.
If it's a workable substitute for M60 / M77 / M-whatever, it's available at a decent price.
(I thought oil threads got in the weeds, until I saw the debates here about moly greases and paste. I'm still trying to get my head around it all.)
If it's a workable substitute for M60 / M77 / M-whatever, it's available at a decent price.
(I thought oil threads got in the weeds, until I saw the debates here about moly greases and paste. I'm still trying to get my head around it all.)
from your link:
Product features
- Genuine OEM Yamaha Part
- Strong Molybdenum Disulfide Grease 10Oz Strong P Extreme-Pressure Grease Lubricates High Loads Is Non-Corrosive And Water-Resistant
- Exhibits Low-Friction Properties That Protect Against Wear And Galling In Difficult Operating Conditions
- Use This Grease Where Specified In The Service Manual To Use Grease "M"
Seriously, if you read the really long threads on molly here you will have all the info you need to make your own decision. We seem to have reached a consensus on what to use, unlike oil threads.
Shawn K
Professional Cat Confuser
Since I don't own a manual for any Yamaha motorcycle, I was unaware what the "M" designation specifies.
I think I'm just going to use Loctite LB 8012. If it's good enough for Larry Fine, it's good enough for me.
Forums are a great thing, but sometimes the BW:BS ratio can be a challenge on certain topics.
Last edited:
just an educated guess based on Honda's use of "M" (3% moly grease) and "MP" (>40% moly paste) and the fact that nobody (especially a mfr.) is going to sell 10oz. of anything with high moly content for $6.99.
To make it even more fun, the Yamaha manual I found online doesn't even specify the moly content at all for the "M=molybdenum disulfide grease" icon.
Shawn K
Professional Cat Confuser
A reasonable conclusion. Thanks for the info.