Avon Storm II Failure ( Rear )

[stovepipe]

Preface:
This is not to bash Avon Storm(s) tire company in any way.

First let me say I have been a Avon Storm user for about 3years. The first set wore absolutely perfect. Took them to about 13,000 before changing.. Couldn't be happier

Then Avon Storm II were available. Like wise, got about the same mileage. However, with out any warning, sever tire blow out. TWICE! Two different rear tires. Both times, the rear tire blew out at freeway speeds. Two separate occasions As I said, the tires did not show any signs of immediate wear. And this is what bothers me. I am very picky about checking tire pressure. (42 psi front and rear)So there was no lack of checking TP in this case. It seems like when the tire is coming to the end of it usefulness, it just goes. As you can see, the steel belts were piercing the side walls. In about six different areas. Once may be a fluke, Twice, I learned my lesson. Subsequently, I will not continue to buy Avon Storm II ever again. I was very lucky. If anything, I give credit to the overall stability of the ST 1300, to allow me to get the bike off to the shoulder of the freeway with out incident. So please, be aware.

 

[wjbertrand]

There maybe a good reason Avon does not recommend this tire for the ST1300.

 

[sennister]

I love the Storm on the 1100. I had said a long time ago that I will never run one on my 1300.

 

[stovepipe]

How old is the tire and how many miles are on it?

I have no love for the STorm II for personal bad experience with it along with another members blowout that caused a accident; however, your tire looks well worn to the point of being past it's useful life. That being said, the pictures only show a small portion of the tire...

The mileage was under 9000. I agree with you those pics make the tire look like they`ve been on since the 70`s. I assure you, thats not the case. Some of that was damage from the blow-out itself. And, getting it off the freeway.
And to the point about "Avon dosnt recommend that tire for the 1300" I haven't seen documentation re: that anywhere. Those tires had plenty of miles left on them.

 

[sennister]

The mileage was under 9000. I agree with you those pics make the tire look like they`ve been on since the 70`s. I assure you, thats not the case. Some of that was damage from the blow-out itself. And, getting it off the freeway.
And to the point about "Avon dosnt recommend that tire for the 1300" I haven't seen documentation re: that anywhere. Those tires had plenty of miles left on them.

If you go to their web site and enter in your motorcycle the site will come back with a result showing that they do not make a tire that is recommended for the ST1300. You can call them as well they will say the same. There is lots of info out on the web showing that they don't have a recommended tire for the 1300. That isn't the case with the 1100. That is why I will run them on that bike but not the 1300. While there are a few people here that run them without problems, I wouldn't. Some people ran Road Smarts without problems as well. The way I look at it I would rather spend the money and run a tire that I know is rated and approved for the bike. There are many good tires to pick between Michelin and Bridgestone which seem to be the most popular.

Technically if you wanted to you could go after the place that installed the tires if there was any damage but luckily it doesn't sound like there is any. They are not approved for the 1300.

 

[sennister]

This one is from the US site.

Please don't take this as bashing toward you or anyone that chooses to ride an Avon tire. I don't personally see the reason why someone would want to run a tire that isn't "Approved" for use. It isn't like it is a cost savings measure. The Avon isn't really cheaper than anything else out there. I offer tire changing for members at my house. I will refuse to help anyone that wants to put an Avon or Roadsmart on their 1300. Like I said I run Avon Storms on the 1100 and like them. I would never do this on the 1300 and won't help someone do it. Even if it is an emergency. I keep a few old tires on hand for that reason. I have a could PR2s right now that could be mounted if someone was in need that have at least a thousand miles left on them. I would rather do that than slap an Avon on just because it was the right size. There is much more to the proper tire than just dimensions.

 

[sennister]

There is only one recommended tire for the ST1300 and that is a Bridgestone 020F model tire. We ran the STorm I tires for thousands of miles going through who knows how many sets of tires. No issues under all types of situations. It wasn't recommended, either.

I think by this you are talking about the sticker on the 1300 from Honda. At least I remember seeing this on some documentation or in the service manual.

While this would be one tire that I would say is fine with running (I have one on the back wheel now) I would also look to what the tire manufacturer says in determining this. Michelin does state that they approve the PR2 for use with the 1300. No word on the PR3 as of yet so I would hold off for now. Besides they only make a rear that fits as of now so it may be too soon to say about the PR3.

 

[stovepipe]

I stand corrected. Now Im interested as to when that info was applied on the Avon website????????
I started with the storm II`s the same month they were released in the U.S. To be honest.. I have never had a better tire that griped like the storms do. The problem is, they appear to have a rather short fuse.
Ultimately, I wanted to share this experience so that potential buyers of the storm II could make a better informed choice.
Thanks to all who replied!!!

 

[sennister]

I stand corrected. Now Im interested as to when that info was applied on the Avon website????????
I started with the storm II`s the same month they were released in the U.S. To be honest.. I have never had a better tire that griped like the storms do. The problem is, they appear to have a rather short fuse.
Ultimately, I wanted to share this experience so that potential buyers of the storm II could make a better informed choice.
Thanks to all who replied!!!

AFAIK Avon as never approved the use of the Storm on the 1300. That is the original Storm or the Storm II. While I haven't read of any issues with the original Storm, technically I do not believe that it was officially approved. The Storm II, I have read of a lot of failures with the tire. Way too many for me to justify the risk. Now I have spoken to Avon reps at various MC events and they have told me verbally at times that it is approved but when we really try and get info from Avon it later comes back as a no no to run them. So I chalk that up to a sales rep that doesn't know squat.

Now as to why.

No one really knows. I suspect it might be a load issue. Honestly I don't know what the load rating is on the tire that fits the 1300. Keep in mind that the 1300 is a heavy bike and we like to load them down. Often way over the max weight rating that the bike is designed for. The max weight is really not much. 350 or 400 lbs and that is the weight of the rider/passenger plus luggage. Something like that. Well I am 225 and throw in loaded top box and saddle bags and there is no way I can carry a passenger.

If it isn't a load issue it may be a legal issue. Keep in mind that the 1300 has a big stability issue. More so in the UK where they were pulled out of police service due to the pan weave. Add in the fact that Avon is a UK company that saw these issues and it is entirely possible that they wanted to distance themselves from the issue. It isn't likely that the issue is tire related but if there were a fatality and the bike had Avons the company may have to defend itself in court. By officially not recommending the tire it gives them a legal means of defense. Honestly it may be as simple as they want to distance themselves from a possible issue.

Bottom line I don't know the answer. I do know that they are not recommended. So I won't run them as I mentioned above. I also won't mount them. As I also said, I do like them on the 1100. I agree that they are great in the twisties and wish they had a tire for the 1300 that they approved. I would definitely try them. I won't hold my breath though and until them I will run approved tires like the 020 or PR2.

 

[nhdiesel]

I ran one set of Storm 2s on my 1300. The front lasted and wore great...it is very close to 12k miles, and after today, it has zero miles left (still holding air, no cords showing, but its DONE). My rear only lasted around 7k miles, iirc. It handled solo riding great, but as soon as my wife got on pillion, it burned right up. Now I'm talking around 4k miles of solo riding and it looked like new; 200 miles of 2-up and both sides were chopping and feathered. The last 2-up we did, I felt the rear of the bike getting soft about 2 miles from home. I made it into the yard, but a big bubble had popped open and the cords were broken. 200 miles before, the tire was worn, but all tread still visible (not even a smooth spot). It should have easily lasted those 200 miles.

I have a PR2 that should be here Monday, for the front.

Jim

 

[okckeith]

I have had a PR 2 sitting in my garage for several months. I bought it to replace at the time a fairly new Storm II. I love that tire! But I think I will take it off. I have enough aftermarket parts in my body already.

 

[Bill144]

I am on my 3rd set of Avon Storms - 1 set of Avon Storms and 2 sets of Avon Storm2's. We ride 2 up all the time and we rarely get 9000 miles on the rear tire. For tire confidence on turns and wet pavement I find these a great tire. I had to change out the second last rear tie at 8125 miles because it went flat. When my tire guy took the tire off I checked it over inside and out but could not find a hole. Finally I noticed 2 steel pieces on the tire surface that looked like a staple had been in the tire. There was no indication on the inside of the tire that they went through. My last rear tire , same thing, it went flat in my garage and when the tire guy took it off there as a small steel pin like metal on the surface of the tire. I had 7600 miles on that tire.
Looking at STOVEPIPE's pictures I wonder if the small steel pieces I'm looking at is actually strands of the steel belting sticking through?? I'm sorry I didn't check the tire for the leak before the tireman changed it as we were in a hurry to get on the road.
As much as I love them I guess this will be my last set of Avons.

 

[okckeith]

As much as I love them I guess this will be my last set of Avons.

I feel the same way. I have had nothing but good luck from them for over twenty years.

 

[Yuma ST]

Approx. a year ago I posted a copy of an e-mail exchange I had with Avon, regarding the installation of Storm tires on the ST1300. The company rep. who responded was crystal clear, consise and adament that Avon did not recommend mounting their product on the 1300. Naturally people are free to choose whatever tire they feel will meet their particular needs and I doubt many tire dealerships will refuse to sell product to a willing customer (especially in these trying times). However, when a manufacturer refuses to certify a product for a particular piece of equipment, or application it should give one pause to say..... hmmm... maybe this isn't such a good idea.

 

[Rossi]

Someone earlier asked about the load rating of the Avon Storm II tires for the 1300 vs 1100.

ST1100 rear - 160/70R17 (79V) Reinforced
ST1300 rear - 170/60ZR17 (72W)

I'm not sure what exactly "reinforced" means, but the tire for the 1100 definitely had a higher load rating. Maybe that's the diffrence.

QUESTION: Has anybody ever tried the 160/70R17 on the rear of the ST1300, and if so , what was the result?

 

[Fortunet 1]

If it isn't a load issue it may be a legal issue. Keep in mind that the 1300 has a big stability issue. More so in the UK where they were pulled out of police service due to the pan weave. Add in the fact that Avon is a UK company that saw these issues and it is entirely possible that they wanted to distance themselves from the issue.

Sennister....Can you quantify this "Big stability issue", with some facts. This almost sounds like another motorcycle forum bashing the ST. I have read the history about the UK incident, in which there
was no real formal investigative evidence that the ST had inherent stability issues, and there doesnt seem to be any evidence here in the US to back that either. (IS there?) And further more, if there was, you can rest assured that Honda would be on top of it immediately, as PD motorcycle sales are a big market, here in California. Ive have ridden my ST at higher speeds (loaded) and felt NO stability issues, as many others
have here. Is there an "instability thread" that I am missing here? No jab at you personally ......but can you reiterate this statement a bit?

 

[sennister]

Sennister....Can you quantify this "Big stability issue", with some facts. This almost sounds like another motorcycle forum bashing the ST. I have read the history about the UK incident, in which there
was no real formal investigative evidence that the ST had inherent stability issues, and there doesnt seem to be any evidence here in the US to back that either. (IS there?) And further more, if there was, you can rest assured that Honda would be on top of it immediately, as PD motorcycle sales are a big market, here in California. Ive have ridden my ST at higher speeds (loaded) and felt NO stability issues, as many others
have here. Is there an "instability thread" that I am missing here? No jab at you personally ......but can you reiterate this statement a bit?

As far as the stability issue. Keep in mind that I have a 1300 as well. The stability issue was enough to warranty the ST1300 being withdrawn from police service in the UK. We know that for a fact. We know that there was a stability issue and UK did testing to investigate this. Obviously they did this before making such a harsh move such as removing a bike from service. They still do use some ST1300s there but from what I see they are limited to Paramedic type use, not Police. There is information out there on the tests that were done. So maybe I should have worded it as a "big stability issue" to them.

As for the bike in a Police role here in the US. You mentioned that Honda would be on top of an issue should one be determined as they sell a lot of 1300P bikes here. I think the documented fact that the ST1300P is electronically limited to 120 (or is it 125 something like that) is proof that Honda took steps to correct an issue of some sort or why would they invest the effort into speed limiting a bike. Honestly why the civilian version isn't limited is kind of surprising to me. Most people that report the Pan Weave that it starts north of 120 typically. Of course a lot of factors come into play as to what speed it starts as do other things like wind speed/direction, wind screen position, top box or not and load of the bike. Personally I have felt the weave. On the same bike I have been at speeds in different conditions faster than where I have had felt it start and it has been rock solid. So I do think that there are a lot of factors as to what causes the stability issue.

As far as Avon. We will likely never know why they don't approve a tire for the 1300. If they came out and said it was because they were afraid of a stability issue being blamed on their tire in a law suit at some point, then they could be in trouble for bashing Honda for an issue that hasn't been totally IDed. Maybe they just don't see the 1300 as a big enough market to bother with R&D to approve a tire. In the end we will never know as they won't come out and say. From a legal stand point by not approving a tire, they do have a defense should something come up in a legal action. Again this is total speculation on my part as we will never know from Avon what the real reason is. It would be nice if we could get a consistent answer from Avon. Like I said I have been told by reps that the Storm is approved and we know from the web site and from other that have emailed Avon that it isn't approved. For me I don't trust them on the 1300.

Again none of this is to bash the 1300 or Avon. I love my 1300 and I love Avon Storm (on my 1100 just not the 1300).

Don't take this as bashing of the 1300.

 

[sennister]

If you look at the Wikipedia Article on the ST1300 under the Pan Weave section they talk about this. There was an officer killed possibly due to the Pan Weave. Then they mentioned how a test was done to try and determine if there was an issue. This rider also experienced stability issues and went down and broke several bones. I think this is the test that they did to look into the issue and after this test they removed all ST1300Ps from service as Police bikes. As I mentioned they still use it for medical first responders. So if Avon was trying to distance themselves from this, as I mentioned we will never know.

Here is a BBC News Article on the issue as well Motorcycle News Article. They both hint that the heavy loads that the police carry in the form of communications and emergency equipment may shift the center of gravity back enough to cause the issue. Well we are known to run 2UP with loaded top box and saddle bags. The difference is that we don't need to run at triple digit speeds while doing it.

 

[doxbike]

Just replaced a rear Storm 2 with shy of 10K miles on it. Cords were sticking out in the middle of the tread in 1 spot. Looked like I hit something, altho I sure don't recall any such incident. Now I understand. PR 2 on there now and it is holding real well in the twisties

 

[Al Gully]

My failure last week looked exactly like Stovepipes. 1/4" hole with the steel cords sticking out on the left side of the tire. It was inside where they cut the grooves. When the shop took the tire off, I looked inside the tire and the left side looked like mush all the way around. The right inside looked normal. Only 2500 miles on the Storm II.
If you see cupping on the left side near the tread grooves, get ready to change ot this tire.
This also was when I was riding 2 up and pulling a Uni Go trailer. Mellow might want to put this tire right beside the dunolp roadsmart as a tire that should not be used when the bike is near the max load capacity.
We were pulling into a town when the tire blew.
I'm counting my lucky stars after this one.