Big mistake...R1200RT!

[Muchmore]

BMW's are fantastic bikes. They along with all bikes have their own characteristic's, it's impossible to compare any 2 modern bikes because they all do what they are intended to so well. But, talk to a BMW, Moto Guzzi, Ducati, Cagiva, KTM or Aprilla insider and they will tell you the same thing. Love the product hate the producer. I LOVE those out of the ordinary bikes but after past dealings with parts not available, parts price increases so fast before I can to the dealer to pick it up. Its a hard sell. I even had a bike on order for 8 weeks one time and it was in Atlanta the whole time, they couldnt get it shipped it because of a teamsters strike.

 

[BamaRider]

Well I dunno, the RT goes for about 3-4k more then the ABS ST. Mine was 16 something.

I love both bikes, but the cost of ownership is greater on the RT. I guess I could learn to do the valve myself. They say its not complicated, and a 30 min job with its simple tappet set up.

The motor is vibey till the clutch if fully out, and the revs go up, then the counter balancers come into play and the bike is smooth, but it will never be a ST. At crusing speeds, 60-85 the RT is as smooth as any transverse 4 bike. Only when it goes beyond 105 does the bike seem to get "busy"

Where the bike excels is in how well it is thought out. Excellent aerodynamics and wind mgt. The ST is good at wind mgt but I have to give the edge to the RT. At touring speeds the air pocket is quiet and smooth with screen raised. It has all the little things a touring bike should have, cruise control, gear indicator, excllent lighting, and brakes, se;f cancel turn signals, on the fly suspension adjustment, and power outlets. They didn't leave much out. The riding position is prolly the finest in sport touring. Upright, no lean, bars back to the rider. I can ride it all day stock, but so can on the Honda.

Where I like the Honda is in power delivery and how well it handles all that speed. It is not far behind the FJR in much move refined package, but the 07 FJ closed the gap in that area. The Honda feels very civilized at speed over 100.

I don't know about the long term reliability, I wanted nothing to do with the 1100 series, but the 12 was a vast improvement, and the issues of the 1100s were addressed. The 12 shifts much better then the 11s, not as good as the Honda's but not bad. Mine only has about 27k miles, but so far nothing has broke other then 2 high beam bulbs. The bike delivers great mpg, mine is in the mid 50s, but I never buy a bike based on mpg. LOL. In the long run I doubt it can be as reliable as the Honda (what is?) but it is hard to fault it in terms of pure function.

Its light weight, and vast do dads, and all around comfort make the RT a great bike, it is hard bike beat. I don't know which bike I like best, depends on the day of the week. I ride them both equally and enjoy them immensely. But deep down I'll always be a Honda guy.

 

[este1300pilot]

Rode BMW for 20 years. I make regular cross country trips, the lack of BMW dealerships other than major cities was always a concern on these drives, although (knock on wood) the beemer never let me down.

Made a habit of sticking to precisely to the maintenance schedule which was expensive, but it kept the bike going at all times. Never had a problem getting parts.

However, when it came time to buy new, I checked out BMW and Honda. For about $5,000 less, the ST was an equal in technology, relatively bullet proof based on the 1100's out there including one of my riding buddies experience and talking to other owners, and a dealer in every moderate size town.

Both great brands, but I am happy to have made the switch and after the first full year with the ST, no regrets.

I am sure that the newer BMW's are great but think carefully about the price and availability of service.

 

[BamaRider]

Bill L- The 1300 is at 54k miles, and the RT at 26 something.

I'll add boxer twins are not for everyone, but the recent incarnation in the 1200 is the best yet.

Both bikes do the samething, in vastly different ways. Usually if you like the Honda, you'll like the BMW. It is a common thing to hear, "yanno if I didn't own a BMW my bike would be Honda." Same for us on STs. Many of us would be on GTs or RTs if Honda did not make the ST. As sport touring riders we have much more in common with the BMW folks then the Honda owners of the other models. Can you imagine going to a VTX rally?? Not that there is anything wrong with those folks, but riding in group with them is kinda hard. Small gas tanks, no lean factor, and no full on top end power makes riding beside such bikes painful.

But we think nothing of showing up with RT, GT guys and going for a ride.

The lack of BMW dealers is a factor. My dealer is only 1 hour away, but on the open roads out west, have a good tow plan. BMW does offer one as part of its 3 year warranty.

 

[tdeboeser]

I love BMW's, and I like what they are doing; adding models, sub-models, lightening the bikes and add more power. Seems like BWM is trying, not always evident from Honda. But the last few IBR DNF's are telling...

LD and Adventure bikes shouldn't have records like that.

I'm lucky there is a VERY good beemer dealer here ( Morton's ), who I always here good things about. They must do well too, last year or so they opened a brand new building, built from the ground up.

Don't think a bwm would be my only bike... when I win the lottery I'll get a GS or R1200s, or maybe a K....

Tom de

 

[Judge]

Re: Big mistake - R1200RT!

I've tried several BMWs and I actually liked the older R1150RT better than the new 1200RT,,, but if I was going to spend that kind of money on a SportTouring machine I would go with the new K1200GT, styled much like the RT, even lighter, has the new transverse inline 4, smooth, fast, sweet machine. But still expensive for maintenance unless you can do most of your own.

Valid points, but just a small correction. The GT is heavier than the RT.

 

[STryder]

I too suffered from the which bike to buy. I rode an 04 R1150RT with 20K that I fell in love with at a BMW Dealer that was priced the same as a brand new non ABS 06 ST. I considered all the issues that have been mentioned before and came to the following conclusion.
I currently own and ride an 02 Magna that is a join to runs the many twisty roads in my local area, but for long tours at freeway speeds with touring cargo I wanted a more appropriate (comfortable) ride. I loved the BMW but realized that in order to purchase a new BMW I would be forced to sell the Magna. I finally bought a new 06 ST and am keeping the Magna for day rides.
Best of both worlds.

paddlepro

 

[hig4s]

Re: Big mistake - R1200RT!

Valid points, but just a small correction. The GT is heavier than the RT.

checking specs I see you are correct, Hmmm, it didn't feel heavier..

 

[JGreb]

In my quest for my next bike I have narrowed it down to these two. What a great resource the members of this site have been. I appreciate everyones objective views on both of these great machines, and welcoming me to this site. I have no doubt nobody will ban me if I buy the RT, Right?

I thought it was interesting to point something out that has me scratching my head. In the November Motorcyclist page 88 and 89 have the two bikes specs side by side.

1/4 mile times

ST 11.43@118.55
RT 11.68@118.9

Top Gear roll on 60-80
ST 4.52
RT 4.3


HP/TQ
ST 114/83.5
RT 101/78

With the weight savings of the RT, could all the reports of the ST being so much faster and more powerful be just a seat of the pants impression? Maybe it is not such a gap in performance as some might have you believe? The top gear roll ons I found interesting considering that the BMW is in sixth and the Honda is in fifth. I know, top gear is top gear. I suspected the Honda would be quicker with the HP advantage and a lower top cog, but they are very close indeed. I also suspect that if you did a roll on comparison say; 60-100 the Honda would be kicking some tail.

 

[Mellow]

No one will ban you because you make the decision that's right for you. And even if it's not an ST you are still welcome on the site, remember you meet the nicest people on a Honda.. LOL

I don't think all the stats mean anything.. if you sit on the bike and it fits you and you're happy with it and you ride it and everything works for you... then it's a good match.

Good luck in your decision.

 

[jdpfms]

I've got a blue 04 ST1300ABS and have it farkled out just right for me to be supremely comfortable. Like Bamarider, I won't give up this ST unless it is for another one. I've been liking the RTs way back to the 1150s. I test rode one model year of the 1150 and really didn't quite like the vibes and hated the whine of the servo assist brakes. I now really like the 1200RT except for three things. I don't like the price difference. I don't like the sparse dealer network and expensive maintenance but would do most myself. The third thing though is the continuing history of rear drive failures. I know it may be uncommon, but it would sure be in the back of my mind all the time. I know people who just say if it breaks they will just fix it, but it is where and when it breaks and if it is covered that would matter. If I ever get an RT, I'd either get an extended warranty or sell it at the end of the warranty.

JDP

 

[BamaRider]

Since this thread started my RT is now closing down on 40k miles.

I rode it to Texas, Ohio, and NY on seperate tours this riding season, and it performed flawlessly, and so far the dreaded FD hasn't materialized. I'm hoping my RT will not have that problem, it is happens to small number of bikes, but still way too much. There is definate problem with the system that BMW needs to address.

The problem seems to be appear long before 50k miles, so maybe I'm outta the woods.

That would be sad, because the bike such a great all around machine. The comfort, amenties, and great handling make the RT a fine motorcycle, plus it has all the intangibles. Everywhere I park it, a crowd gathers.

 

[epconde]

I made a big mistake today. I went to a BMW dealership and test rode a R1200RT. I fell in love with the handling. Much nimbler than the ST. You can easily feel the lesser weight. Two quirks: the gear shift is not easily accessible under the engine head. The turn signals on each side and the cancel on the right side need some getting used to. Other than that, I could get used to this bike.

The one huge difference in favor of the ST is the engine, much more smooth (actually the RT is not smooth at all) and the power. No surge on the RT however.

So, here's my question to you guys: what do you think I would miss the most of the ST if I traded for an RT (obviously, other than the members of this amazing forum, the best IMHO all hobbies combined)?

Thank you for any feedback.

Cheers

I've ridden both bikes and love them both. I liked the handling and the ergonomics of the RT more, but like the ST's V-4. You'll be happy either way.

 

[STingray]

Just some info to consider from the '07 Iron Butt Rally (printed in the IBR newsletter):

"The Tarnished Blue and White Roundel

A disproportionate number of the DNFs fall on the shoulders of BMW. BMW failed several riders, demonstrating that they are no longer capable of building motorcycles that can run 11,000 miles in 11 days without a significant fraction experiencing a catastrophic drivetrain failure of some sort. BMW of North America has requested contact information for the riders who experienced failures. The riders BMW should be more concerned about are the thousands of unsuspecting souls who will breakdown in the future because the company has lost its previous ability to either design durable drivetrain components or (more likely) adequately monitor production and assembly quality. It's way, way past time for BMW to fix its drivetrain reliability problems. A good start might be to acknowledge that there is a problem. "

This is on the heels of the stats for the '05 IBR: BMWs made up 50% of the field of bikes, but made up 90% of the breakdowns.

A local CHP officer I spoke with a short while ago loves the RT he's riding. But he said that he was spending WAY too much time at the dealership for repairs/adjustment/maintenance issues.

-Info not mine- But I have ridden my friends R1200RT! (so, when's that new ST coming out??? )

Ray

 

[AgSTreak]

I posted this on another thread-
"I recently got back from a round trip to Florida on my '03 ST. Something like 2600 miles for what was basically a weekend event. The ST did everything I asked it to do and offered much more. LEOs and some rain made me cautious, 5 - 10 mph over posted speeds on the slab. God I love this bike.
Welcome and enjoy!!"
Most modern sport/touring bikes will do the same. I sat on the BMW's available at the time and chose the ST, with no regrets. This was after having ridden Airheads most of my adult life. The ergos on the Beemers just didn't feel right. If the ergos had been a little better for me, I probably would have been just as happy with an RT or K-bike. Life is short. If the mood moves you, go for it.

 

[05ST1300ABS]

Many of us would be on GTs or RTs if Honda did not make the ST. .

I like reading your posts and I like your observations of both bikes and I respect your information as an owner of both bikes.
And now I believe you mentioned something, again, that I might agree with.

I would be on a GT, albeit, maybe, an 04 model at first. Then after about three years I would have moved to the 07 GT for all the changes and technology. Used ones are around 16-18 and that isnt bad when you consider you are getting some of that money from the sale of your previous bike.
But Honda has made my first choice the ST1300 and I havent worn it out yet at 60K miles. Perhaps in TWO more years it will be around 100K and Ill go shopping again.

Colored editing- May 17th 2009

 

[Lou65]

A bunch of money, a few missed shifts, comfort, dependability...you can still have us here.

 

[Subdivided]

My nod went to the ST in October because of the price difference and the reduced maintenance on the ST. Both are excellent machines.

Don't be afraid of the maintenance cost on the BMW, get a shop manual and learn to do the work yourself - they are easy to work on. Problem is, you have to work on them, cuts into the riding time. Just my 2 cents...

 

[Fishman]

Middle of last year I wanted to trade in my 2003 RT1150 (had covered 36000 miles) and tested both the ST1300 and the RT1200. Went with the ST because that smooth power just leaves the RT in the weeds. Gearchange better and servicing cheaper (although more frequent so not sure it actually saves you money). The toys on the RT12 are tempting like Electronically Adjustable Suspension, Heated Seat and, if you buy a nearly new model these are often available at very little extra above a basic spec machine.

After 6 months of ownership and 5000 miles, wouldn't go back to the RT1150 or trade for an RT1200. My only regret is the ride quality and I can see having to begrudgingly hand over hard earned cash for an upgrade rear shock and possibly front springs. Basically the ST1300 is a great bike that, for me anyway, is let down by some cheap and nasty suspension.

So you won't miss the iffy ride (assuming you are one of the unlucky wobblers among us) or the short service intervals but you might miss the smooth acceleration and gearchanges - Beemer twins are notoriously clunky.

The only way you will find out is to own the bike - take a risk and if you don't like the RT, there will always be someone else looking to buy one.

Good luck.

 

[STill STylin]

Is it true in order for the BMW Warranty to be in full force and effect, all servicing MUST be performed by an authorized BMW Motorcycle dealer?

If this is so, an immediate measurable value you might notice is the additional coST of maintenance . . . .

Can you consider retaining your ST?