BMW K1300GT riding impressions

[AgSTreak]

Bones got me thinking about what writers mean when they state that the Duolever fork lacks feel. Looking at both designs, I guess feel is the torsional and compression squirm, which is inherent in a system composed of two sets of tubes within tubes, two springs and two reservoirs of fluid. This "feel" (squirm) is transferred or translated to the handlebars as a standard motorcycle fork tries to cope with irregularities and bumps in the road. The Duolever solid fork transmits the forces more linearly to the shock, eliminating much of the flexing and diving (this must be feel too). I don't believe the "feel" (squirm, flex, whatever) is reduced to zero but Carl that's why the GT handles so well. I've noticed that the GT performs u-turns far more cleanly than even my VFR. One of the penalties you pay is that the system weighs more than standard slider forks. This may be the reason BMW went with standard forks on the RR which was designed to compete with the Busa and weight counts. Talked to a Busa owner and he thinks the RR is absolutely crazy.


Oh, just found this article in Car Bibles. It's a good read and explains the Duolever and "feel" far better than I can.

http://www.carbibles.com/suspension_bible_bikes.html

 

[Kempo-STer]

Bones got me thinking about what writers mean when they state that the Duolever fork lacks feel. Looking at both designs, I guess feel is the torsional and compression squirm, which is inherent in a system composed of two sets of tubes within tubes, two springs and two reservoirs of fluid. This "feel" (squirm) is transferred or translated to the handlebars as a standard motorcycle fork tries to cope with irregularities and bumps in the road. The Duolever solid fork transmits the forces more linearly to the shock, eliminating much of the flexing and diving (this must be feel too). I don't believe the "feel" (squirm, flex, whatever) is reduced to zero but Carl that's why the GT handles so well. I've noticed that the GT performs u-turns far more cleanly than even my VFR. One of the penalties you pay is that the system weighs more than standard slider forks. This may be the reason BMW went with standard forks on the RR which was designed to compete with the Busa and weight counts. Talked to a Busa owner and he thinks the RR is absolutely crazy.


Oh, just found this article in Car Bibles. It's a good read and explains the Duolever and "feel" far better than I can.

http://www.carbibles.com/suspension_bible_bikes.html

Jesus John...you need to get out more!!!!!!

 

[Bones]

Bones got me thinking about what writers mean when they state that the Duolever fork lacks feel.

I read that article last winter if memory serves, John. (OK, Todd, guess I need to get out more often, too!)

My comments about lack of feel, which are consistent across my experience with BMWs with telelever front ends too, are not a criticism of how the K13 handles. I thought it was a great handling bike that isolates the rider...this rider...from what's going on down there on the road. Could I get used to such an arrangement? Perhaps. I have only ridden non-telescoping fork BMWs on roads with nice smooth pavement so I can't comment on what it would be like across a range of road surfaces.

I'm a writer...guess that lands me in the "lack of feel" camp, eh?

 

[AgSTreak]

At this point Todd you probably realize I have no other mission in life but to research and answer questions Scott and Carl raise. Plus, getting out more costs money and after dumping big bucks on my German Dragon Lady, I only have pocket change left.
Back on topic. I removed my saddlebags and was surprised by the heavy weight and thickness of the plastic. Curious about this I did a little web search after I had a beer with lunch, uhh, oops. OK, there are necessities in life. In any case, I found a rather good comparison of modern sport-tourers. It's sad that the ST1300 was left out because of a previous last place finish. However it does have three of the bikes I considered and appears to agree with my overall assessments of the Connie and the Triumph. I may still buy a Triumph GT, not the ST version to replace my VFR in a few years.

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/12/5007/Motorcycle-Article/2009-Sport-Touring-Shootout-IV.aspx

 

[AgSTreak]

BTW, the bags are pretty hefty at 27#. This may account for the 30 pound difference in weight some articles show.

 

[Bones]

At this point Todd you probably realize I have no other mission in life but to research and answer questions Scott and Carl raise.

Hey John, why is there air?

 

[AgSTreak]

Probably so you won't suffer hypoxia and stop asking questions.
No research needed.

 

[CJewell]

Where did you pick up your K1300GT? I'm out of Danbury. I saw a silver ST at Cliff's BMW, pretty dirty.

 

[AgSTreak]

Maybe you missed my posts on the recent Cleaning your beloved ST1300.

https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95172

 

[Carl_T]

Hey John, a question... But why? (apply liberally to any and all sentences that comes to mind, ad infinitum). the former inspired by my children's youth.

I think I top the "no life" chart. John had me reading about suspension and road tests at 2am, and embarrassingly, I was enjoying it.

"Feel," I suppose the meanings for that could be all over the place. For me it's whether I have a clue about the traction levels of the tire. Such as, is it sliding or not? How soon is the rider aware of that? other sorts of feel (like bumps or minor texture changes) don't matter so much to me personally, but if it's just starting to slide, I wanna know about that sooner rather than later.

Oh yeah, can you tell Todd is jealous we did the test rides in the western part of CT rather than the Eastern part so he could try it out? Appologies Todd, looks like you have to move near the Western boarder of your state.

 

[AgSTreak]

CJ, that was my slightly less than cosmetically pristine ST.
Carl, I thought that was the meaning of feel too until I realized the way the term was being applied. An experienced racer might use it to describe fork dive and the way it changes the motorcycle geometry, such as rake and trail. This can make the bike quicker in the turns with a significant loss in stability. Can a tank slapper be far off? Knowing how to use this on the racetrack can give you an advantage. For the average rider like me, I want as much stability as possible in a turn. I'm not trying to get past Nicky Hayden on the last turn. I apologize for forcing you take the bike on a beautifully smooth, winding road, but rest assured, I can detect even small texture changes, tiny stones and twigs with absolutely no difficulty. I went over a twig on the way to meet you guys and clearly felt the front tire shift when the stick rolled slightly.
Manufacturers have gone to great lengths to reduce the fork dive endemic to telescoping forks. Many riders and manufactures add fork braces to reduce torsional stresses and tank slappers. BMW has done this better than anyone. God, I sound like a BMW shill. It works Carl. Having said that, you were on the OEM Metzler Z6 tires. It appears PR2s are the preferred sneaker. If they improve handling as much as some claim, I'm in for a treat.

 

[AgSTreak]

BTW, I have a cabin reserved for CampSTOC which is just a stone or twig's throw from The Dragon and spitting distance from the Cherohala Skyway. I haven't posted it yet but I will be looking for roomies. Carl, I know you want to do this. This is way better than the Edelwiess Tours at a fraction the cost.

 

[AgSTreak]

This is mildly interesting. I just wondered if I could post a U-Tube video. My test ride wasn't this aggressive.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9AjmGIyZZA&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9AjmGIyZZA&feature=related

 

[AgSTreak]

This is a little more interesting.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wYD9SSBBNQ&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wYD9SSBBNQ&feature=related

 

[FJRHank]

This is mildly interesting. I just wondered if I could post a U-Tube video. My test ride wasn't this aggressive.

Hey really liked that for maybe a somewhat odd reason. The guy really let that engine breathe. Hardly did any shifting at all, used the full rev range.

Once watched a vid of an fjr following another one, he was basically filming the other one. But you could hear him shift, sometimes as many as 3 times, between corners at Deals Gap.

These bikes (all the ST's), have performance engines. they aren't cruisers people They'll never get broken in with all the shifting the particular fjr guy was doing.

 

[FJRHank]

This is a little more interesting.

Yup that was some great info... head down below the mirror... get your whole body off, not just yer arse

 

[Carl_T]

BTW, I have a cabin reserved for CampSTOC which is just a stone or twig's throw from The Dragon and spitting distance from the Cherohala Skyway. I haven't posted it yet but I will be looking for roomies. Carl, I know you want to do this. This is way better than the Edelwiess Tours at a fraction the cost.

Right you are John. Dawn and I are there Shooting for the whole wandering trip with you, seeing about getting extended time for wandering lined up.

I dunno Hank, it looked a lot like a bunch of laid back, lazy going riding to me, but then again I tend to run things in the fatty part of its torque/HP powerband rather than leave it in one gear. I tend to drop most bikes two to pass most times as well. That's unless I'm intentionally being lazy, or cruising along. Which probably is what this guy was doing on those boring roads. Horrible place for a test ride.

I'm surprised he didn't see what it would do starting out up the rev range more, where he'd be into the bottom of the powerband meat to start with, and run it from there to it's peak a bit more. After all, the ride was billed as a test of the bikes engine. He sure couldn't test the handling on those roads.

He at least looked to be starting way too low in the rev range and backing out early in the power band an awful lot. The bike is snappier than that by a bunch up in the rev range. He was lugging along under the power band at the start of many of the accelerations. Yes the engine will manage it (even though lugging is not all that great for it), but it's not optimal riding if one is doing other than taking it easy going.

Testing passing power, I'm of a mind that if an imaginary engines power band starts at 4500rpm and goes to 9000RPM say, you start the acceleration in a gear that has the engine close to 4500rpm and you don't bother to up shift until you get to 8500rpm to 9000rpm, OR you have hit the highest speed you want to hit, whichever comes first. Then you up shift. Starting a full throttle acceleration with the same imaginary engine at 2000rpm is not very good for the engine and nets you a much slower/longer time accelerating, even if an engine will manage it. Unless of course it's an electric engine where the torque starts at nearly nothing : Starting at 2000 rpm at partial throttle (until you are near or at the power band) is fine for relaxed riding and not stressful for many large engines. However it is not performance riding, nor a test of performance capabilities.

Now this is just the way I've learned things. YMMV and I've no quarrel if it does. Just giving my view of it.

 

[Carl_T]

The ride on John's bike with it's suspension layout, has me pretty well decided on looking at/for an RT to replace the Bandit. The weight on an RT is right in with what I personally like and want. With a lot of good fortune selling the Bandit, SV650N, and 250 Ninja, I could have it for the trip down south to CAMPSTOC with John for the coming riding season. Anyone knows of a fairly low mileage 2007 RT or so for sale, PM me if you will

 

[FJRHank]

Now this is just the way I've learned things. YMMV and I've no quarrel if it does. Just giving my view of it.

No prob with me my friend Carl I only get uppity when safety issues are involved... they're just too important to gloss over. Some here pretty much all they get about safe riding is our discussions. This discussion is just a preference thing, no issues one way or another myself

enjoy, hope you find that RT!

 

[Carl_T]

Some here pretty much all they get about safe riding is our discussions.

Surprising, but all too true I fear. While hands on is best, there is a ton of reading material out there for people to learn workable systems and increased safety from (some good stuff from the MSF itself in book form). You'd think people couldn't ride many years without wanting to search around and learn more, but it seems like a lot just don't bother to do that. From what little I've heard about it, the new MSF advanced riding course that will be taught has some really good stuff in it this time around. Especially compared to what they had before. I'm glad to hear about the update and look forward to learning even more about what it will be made up of.

I have to get a test ride on an RT, but the likelihood I'll enjoy the bike is very high, since I like twins of differing sorts to start with, and I was happy with the feel the suspension system on John's bike delivered.