In some circles its also known as a HammerThat's why it's only a 'tap - tap'
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Brake advice request
- Thread starter Art Franz
- Start date
OP
OP
This whole situation, without the collective knowledge and experience of this forum and those that responded to my request, could have really turned into a nightmare. But, as it happened, it was a really good experience.
As you've seen here, roadridereg invited me to his house to (potentially) diagnose and repair the problem. As it turns out, problems.
Gary: Plese feel free to chime in here if you have thoughts or points that I have missed.
First thing as soon as I pulled into Gary's driveway, he checked the rotors' temps. I don't remember the exact details, but the RF was cooler than the LF, and the rear was way hotter than the fronts by quite a bit. Gary immediately made me feel at home by offeriung me refreshment and a discussion about our common interest - ST motorcycles. He checked the torque on the LF caliper's mounting bolts - both were under spec. Then we took the pads off both front calipers; both inside pads were paper-thin and the outsides were both approx 50%. The rears were about 60 left. All 3 calipers were moving freely on their floater-pins. All of the pistons were moving freely as well. All 3 pins-that-hold-the-pads-in (the pins that have that little O-ring on the end) were corroded and, on closer inspection, somewhat scored. As near as we could tell, the SMC was working normally.
What we did: We did not take the calipers off their floating-pins as they were moving freely. We put new Honda pads on both fronts, new pins with O-rings on all 3 calipers. Then we flushed 12 oz of new fluid through the system as the rear had (on at least one occasion) gotten very hot. Then we went for a ride and it appeared that everything was working as it should. Since we did these repairs, I've put about 200 miles on the bike and all is well.
Another thing that I noticed before I went to Gary's was that the bike would make a rattle sound whenever I hit small sharp bumps such as the relectors on the road. When I checked a little closer, the left caliper assembly had movement (specifically, you could feel movement at the lower mount where the needle bearing is) when you tried to rock the mount side-to-side - the way that it's supposed to be solid. When we checked the same "wiggle" on Gary's bike, there was almost no movement, and then we checked on a brand new bike on the showroom floor at the dealer's while getting parts, there was no movement whatsoever. The dealer did not have that pin and bushing in stock, so we put the loose pair back in. I plan to order those 2 parts from the dealer in Yuma and they'll be there and I'll install them in Yuma when I get there early next week.
As you've seen here, roadridereg invited me to his house to (potentially) diagnose and repair the problem. As it turns out, problems.
Gary: Plese feel free to chime in here if you have thoughts or points that I have missed.
First thing as soon as I pulled into Gary's driveway, he checked the rotors' temps. I don't remember the exact details, but the RF was cooler than the LF, and the rear was way hotter than the fronts by quite a bit. Gary immediately made me feel at home by offeriung me refreshment and a discussion about our common interest - ST motorcycles. He checked the torque on the LF caliper's mounting bolts - both were under spec. Then we took the pads off both front calipers; both inside pads were paper-thin and the outsides were both approx 50%. The rears were about 60 left. All 3 calipers were moving freely on their floater-pins. All of the pistons were moving freely as well. All 3 pins-that-hold-the-pads-in (the pins that have that little O-ring on the end) were corroded and, on closer inspection, somewhat scored. As near as we could tell, the SMC was working normally.
What we did: We did not take the calipers off their floating-pins as they were moving freely. We put new Honda pads on both fronts, new pins with O-rings on all 3 calipers. Then we flushed 12 oz of new fluid through the system as the rear had (on at least one occasion) gotten very hot. Then we went for a ride and it appeared that everything was working as it should. Since we did these repairs, I've put about 200 miles on the bike and all is well.
Another thing that I noticed before I went to Gary's was that the bike would make a rattle sound whenever I hit small sharp bumps such as the relectors on the road. When I checked a little closer, the left caliper assembly had movement (specifically, you could feel movement at the lower mount where the needle bearing is) when you tried to rock the mount side-to-side - the way that it's supposed to be solid. When we checked the same "wiggle" on Gary's bike, there was almost no movement, and then we checked on a brand new bike on the showroom floor at the dealer's while getting parts, there was no movement whatsoever. The dealer did not have that pin and bushing in stock, so we put the loose pair back in. I plan to order those 2 parts from the dealer in Yuma and they'll be there and I'll install them in Yuma when I get there early next week.
I'm guessing the main fault then was actually the "hanger" or retaining pins being corroded.... this causes the pads to stick on the pins and not wear evenly.... it prevents proper sliding back and fro of the floating side of the caliper.... can sometimes result in pads wearing in a slight wedge shape too.
Well done to Gary on his assist and to you both for getting this sorted out!
Hope it stays fixed for you and you can get some miles and smiles in!
Well done to Gary on his assist and to you both for getting this sorted out!
Hope it stays fixed for you and you can get some miles and smiles in!
Tom Mac 04a
Site Supporter
This SMC rattle ( almost sounds like the fender is loose ) is a common tell-tail that you should bleed the system ( AND Tilt the SMC when called for ).... seems that the lack of good bleed allows movment ... ie; rattle.
Kudos to Gary for the assist!
I aways find the needle bearing(s) bone dry, and the bushing you speak of scored from lack of grease! This scoring, as well as the scoring on the pins is enough to cause drag, and activate the SMC, thus causing the rear brake to drag as well.
Sometimes you can simply remove the bushing, scotchbrite bad the scoring down smooth, and pack the bearings with grease again to get you home.
Folks often neglect the pad pins big time. Its something most folks don't think about.
Glad your getting the help you need. Kudo's for those who are helping.
Igofar
:nuts1:
:bow1:
I think Art covered everything. I am not sure how much importance is on the lower bearing and bushing is. But Art's was very loose, partly because of the torque on the bolt was way under, but the bushing to bearing was scored also. I think a new bearing, sleeve and bolt should be replaced.
P.S. I was my pleasure to meet Art, he is a true long distance rider..and a great guy.
Attachments
If the fit was loose it may cause the brake caliper mount to bind anytime the brakes were used, or even when going over a bump.
As far as how important the bushing mount is....the entire bracket/caliper/SMC depends on this bushing to not only pivot on, but to keep things in perfect alignment and free from binding. I'd say thats a pretty important function.
The SMC can be repaired a couple different ways. By rebuilding the inside working parts (piston, wipers etc) or by replacing the entire bracket. (much easier and not that much more money) I'm not sure if the Needle bearings can even be removed or replaced. I know theres a whole bunch of them in there.
The needle bearings with 2 seals are pressed into the fork. Without a quick replacement available we did not pursue pressing this out. But this is something to look at when you have a rear brake hanging up.