Thanks heaps! I picked up a Tube of Moly Bond GA 50 this morning. Literally, the ONLY Moly Paste for sale in NZ.Having established that high % Moly paste does not exist in Australia, I purchased these two tubes last year (Photo). My ST is currently running on the Molybond GA50. The GA50 may be more suitable if it were thicker IMO, and maybe fortifying (stirring in) with some Moly powder would do the job. This sounds like a good way of overcoming the Moly paste shortage. The G-n paste could also be used as a basis for adding more MoS2 powder perhaps. It is a thick paste as it is but I don't know how much Moly the G-n contains off the shelf. It seems undisclosed in the specs.
D
Can't find Moly Paste. Mix my own?
- Thread starter huntingdog
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Today's Mission was cleaning around the rear wheel and getting some Moly Paste on those splines. Did not want to overdo it with the paste to prevent it from peeling out everywhere. Did I apply enough? What do you guys think? I might need to go and get a new O-Ring on the wheel side (before photo seems to show it leaking way past the seal whatever that was applied there before)
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Personally, I would apply Moly similarly on the other mating spline. After (!) I applied the Moly to my ST splines I read somewhere in the Honda Manual, there is a volume/mass of Moly specified for the job. It worried me a bit, as I think my application was too generous. However, I wasn't so concerned that I was going to remove the wheel and clean some of the Moly out. I am now half-way through my tyres (wear) and I will have a look at the next tyre change.
D
D
there's also an O-ring on the final drive side that might explain the rust, I'll post something later regarding where to find it.
FWIW, your splines definitely show signs of damage, so keep up your regular maintenance on them going forward.
here's a link showing all 3 O-rings
Article [11] - ST1100 - O-rings in the final drive (rear wheel) | ST1100 Articles
Much has been written about the importance of properly lubricating the final drive with moly paste whenever the rear wheel is removed. Not so much has been written about the importance of ensuring that the three O-rings in the final drive are checked to ensure that they are in good condition...
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If you look closely at your female splines, you will see damage!
the shelving, and edges worn into the female splines are obvious.
There is also damage on your male splines as well.
The stuff you called dirt, was probably rust, from both of the O rings being hard/dry/damaged.
I would clean everything down to bare metal completely, inspect everything, then use a proper moly PASTE as directed in the factory service manual.
I would also go out on a limb to say that those folks who have been using grease instead of paste, and have never changed their O rings in many years probably have damage under their grease that they are just not seeing etc.
Not following recommendations in the service manual for maintenance in twenty plus years is just plain and simple neglect, and not something to boast about, or suggest to new members, that it would be ok to do.
the shelving, and edges worn into the female splines are obvious.
There is also damage on your male splines as well.
The stuff you called dirt, was probably rust, from both of the O rings being hard/dry/damaged.
I would clean everything down to bare metal completely, inspect everything, then use a proper moly PASTE as directed in the factory service manual.
I would also go out on a limb to say that those folks who have been using grease instead of paste, and have never changed their O rings in many years probably have damage under their grease that they are just not seeing etc.
Not following recommendations in the service manual for maintenance in twenty plus years is just plain and simple neglect, and not something to boast about, or suggest to new members, that it would be ok to do.
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Quick search on Amazon shows a broad selection including the "official" Honda tube. My new stealer in Henderson Carrie's the same product in a tin, called Assembly Lube. Expensive.
The Amazon search also returned many, many other Loctite products.
I bought my new tube of the Honda lube off Amazon when I brought STerling home. It'll last a long time.
The Amazon search also returned many, many other Loctite products.
I bought my new tube of the Honda lube off Amazon when I brought STerling home. It'll last a long time.
The important rear splines are often neglected I expect. On many STs the only fellow to see the splines will be the tyre fitter, with owner absent.
The tyre fitter may of may not wipe some ...grease? on them, so it is easy to see how the poor old hard working splines can be left 'high and dry'.
The tyre fitter may of may not wipe some ...grease? on them, so it is easy to see how the poor old hard working splines can be left 'high and dry'.
Funny, this week I needed Moly 60 and went to local dealership to buy some spline lube. Have to order it. I asked what they used in the shop and they said they didn’t use no stinking spline lube. Went home and ordered off Amazon. Lot of trouble for 3 grams of paste.
Thank you kindly for your comments and observation. I have owned this ST for only a short few weeks now and as mentioned before, I am meticulously going through the bike from nose to tail. Following comments on here, I started focussing on the very important drive train and the photos tell the story. The sad thing about this specific ST is that it had ALL its services done by the Honda dealer here in Auckland. My best mate (who owned this ST) is not mechanically orientated and relied 100% that the bike is getting the best care being serviced at Honda. Do I replace the lot? Should I? 79,000 km on the ODO. With the damage, you can see (is not that obvious to me, unfortunately) would I be OK if I care for it from here onwards? appreciate any advice
100% agree and that is exactly what happened here
Yup, Honda here had a similar response when I rang up for Moly paste. Sad
Thanks! Amazon does have stock, yes, but as I was in desperate need of Moly paste because of the state of mine, I did not want to wait weeks/months (here in NZ freight is SLOW . . . ) I have some 'proper Moly' inbound
Sadlsor
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Makes ya wonder... do they treat 25-thousand-dollar GoldWings this way, too?
That's a frightening thought.
If we are to assume a dealer is doing proper maintenance, let us hearken back to the sage words of President Ronald Reagan (you know where this is going)...
Trust but verify.
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The Molykote Gn Paste is exactly what is specified in the Honda Service Manual for the ST1300.
Note the spec is for a minimum 40% of MoS2. NLGI #2 is the consistency - peanut butter according to Wiki.
Dow Corning do not make the Gn Paste any more according to their website - the company seems to be concentrating on Silicone Based Products. I contacted them about their Molykote M77 as a substitute a while back. I was told that it was a Silicone based product and in general, Silicone based lubricants were not suitable for use in the extremely high pressure situations experienced on the spline of the motorcycle.
The technical data sheet for the Molybond that you found is here.
It mentions 50% MoS2
Lithium based grease
Suitable for Extremely high load capacity
Area of application includes splines.
Temperature range for antiseize use up to 400 deg C - but otherwise says the range is -10 to +150 deg C
Paste Consistency
Seems to be what you are looking for - except I don't know about that temperature range. Might that be too low ? I don't know how hot it gets in there.
But certainly sounds better than axle grease or Honda M60
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Thanks John, for this and looking into the Molys I have chosen. I did not realise Molykote Gn was 'in spec' in the Honda Manual (Read the darn Manual!), so I assume the MoS2 content is > 40%. It certainly has a 'paste' consistency, it is very heavy.
When purchasing GA50 the specs read very well, in my assessment, except for "...in Lithium based grease". I did not know if this disqualified it as an appropriate ST spline Moly, and I still do not understand the significance of being a grease. The GA50 is quite soft and I suppose could be called a 'light paste', but nothing like the Molkote Gn Plus. At the time of re-assembling my rear wheel, new 'O' rings (thanks to Larry), I chose the GA50, not knowing the MoS2 % of the Gn.
Getting back to the original focus of 'huntingdog'; "Mix my own" Moly, both the GA50 and the Gn Plus could be given a 'Moly boost', a 'Moly shot in the arm', with some more MoS2 powder, if that were desired. I like that idea.
D
It does appear there is a little marking on the splines and it's no real surprise, it was real dry in there.
I would have put a bit more Moly Paste on than you did but that's just me. Next time you're in replace the three seals if you haven't already done so. They'll be due.
If you can get hold of a cheap hub/splines on ebay then keep one in the shed for later. There's plenty for sale on ebay UK but that's not much use to yourself unless they post down under. I would keep it lubed meanwhile and ride it once the checks are complete. Riding season is for riding.
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Actually, no it doesn't !! The Safety Data Sheet the Gn states that it is >15%, <20% Molybdenum Disulphide ! But that is a data sheet issued in Feb 2020 by Dupont, so it could well have changed since it isn't under the Dow Corning name any more. (Although I went looking again because I thought that I had seen that oddity before). The spec in the manual has been in place since 2003.
But MoS2 is quite heavy - a density of 5. The percentage never indicates whether the percentage is by weight or by volume. And that would make a very big difference.
Eg A paste of 20% MoS2 by volume, with a Lithium grease density of 0.534. Simple maths - a mix of 1:4 MoS2: Li Grease
1 part MoS2 = 5 units of weight. 4 parts Li Grease = 2.136 units of weight (call it 2). So Mos2 makes up 5 of the 7 units of weght 5/7 = 71% by weight compared to 20 % by volume.
That information would make a lot of difference.
Actually in my previous post I made an error. I said I contacted Dow Corning about their M60 - in fact it was their M77 that I contacted them about. The M60 was the stuff that Honda used to sell and for which I was trying to find a substitute. I have corrected the post above to say M77 (which may or may not be the same stuff as the Honda M77). It all gets confused, as their are different versions around - as different companies seem to have taken over the production.
The Rocol stuff is still readily available, meets the specs and is what I have been using for the last few years.
The Loctite LB 8012 stuff is also widely used, and seems to exceed the specs.
No one has reported trouble with either of these.
The other one that I have only ever mentioned once is Motul Tech Grease 300.
I wrote to Honda UK to ask for their advice abouth the plines on the 1300. This was in December 2017. This was their reply:
Dear Mr. Heath,
Thank you for contacting Honda UK.
I did some research on your enquiry and also checked with our technical department to see what they would recommend. What we are currently using in our dealerships for such cases, as an alternative to the Honda Moly 60 paste, is the "Motul tech grease 300" and our technicians advised that it should be appropriate for your ST1300 Pan European. Our dealerships might not have it available on the shelves, but our parts department has access to it and can supply it in case an order is placed. You can locate the contact details of your nearest Honda dealership using the link provided below, and our partners will be more than happy to assist you with this.
The word 'should' always rings alarm bells - but looking at the spec, it claims to be designed for extreme high pressure and heavy loads up to 150 deg C due to its high load and high pressure additives. The Tech Data Sheet doesn't say what they are. I wasn't sure, so at the time I still had some Honday Moly 60 left, and then went for the Rocol. Had I not done that, I would have sought out the Loctite.
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At one time, I had a tin of assembly lube I had stolen from the Indiana Air Guard. Can was red and yellow. Don't recall the %age but it was thick and gray. Have to wonder where it went.
Re John's post #39:
Thanks John for your additional research.
The whole Moly business is far more uncertain and complex than it should be, it seems to me. I Set out to buy the Loctite, but it is unobtainable, so my search went on, ending with the Molykote Gn Plus and the GA50. Who is stockpiling all the World's Moly paste I ask?
I do have some MoS2 in a jar somewhere, from years past. At next tyre change I will mix some into the GA50 to make GA50 HB (Home Brew). The GA50 will be easier to mix than the Molykote which appears very reluctant to leave its tube (thick!).
Thanks to huntingdog again for the idea of a home Moly mix.
D
Thanks John for your additional research.
The whole Moly business is far more uncertain and complex than it should be, it seems to me. I Set out to buy the Loctite, but it is unobtainable, so my search went on, ending with the Molykote Gn Plus and the GA50. Who is stockpiling all the World's Moly paste I ask?
I do have some MoS2 in a jar somewhere, from years past. At next tyre change I will mix some into the GA50 to make GA50 HB (Home Brew). The GA50 will be easier to mix than the Molykote which appears very reluctant to leave its tube (thick!).
Thanks to huntingdog again for the idea of a home Moly mix.
D
Before or after you stole itAt one time, I had a tin of assembly lube I had stolen from the Indiana Air Guard. Can was red and yellow. Don't recall the %age but it was thick and gray. Have to wonder where it went.
