Coolant seep

[justin_sabre]

sounds like u need to find a new shop. if there is any signs of leaking i would be fighting them to replace it, after all don't need that going on when ur riding. its amazing what company's will try and get away with. i bet like u said that if u where paying it would of been in the shop and apart long time ago.

 

[Igofar]

Ask them to put it in writing.....so when coolant gets on the rear wheel and makes it slippery....etc. that their shop said it's normal.
Personally I would not let those clowns touch my bike..as suggested, I would find a new shop and report them to mother honda.
Good luck.

 

[Blrfl]

After they stripped the plastics off, they now say there is evidence of a slight weep from the coolant pump inspection hole...

:bsflag:

Your bike has a perforated ABS tone wheel, which means it's a 2008 or later model. That year, Honda changed the design of the water pump cover to add a fitting with a hose attached that carries anything that gets past the seal outside of the bike and to the ground. So unless they're looking into the fitting with a borescope, what they think they're looking at isn't the inspection hole. With the hose in place, it would be impossible for coolant leaking out of what was the weep hole to get on the bottom of the oil pan and fairing.

They say there was no actual leak during several cold-hot cycles in the shop.

In the shop doesn't cut it, especially if it's climate-controlled. The bike needs to get good and cold and stay that way for awhile. You said this problem started in the fall before you put the bike away for the winter. I have news for you: once the temperatures are above 10?C most of the time, it's going to stop leaking. You're in for an enjoyable, leak-free summer. And it'll start up again next fall when the temperatures drop. Pull the bike out in January, start it up and it'll leak like a sieve.

Go back to what you said in post #8: "Well, I started her up for a ride, and this is what I found while she was still warming up. Not even reached three bars." The behavior, the amount of leakage and the location are classic clamp leakage. No kidding, it's exactly what I used to see first thing in the morning before I replaced the clamps. The only difference between your pictures and mine is that my bike's faster because it's blue. And it doesn't leak anymore.

If there is leakage, the mechanical seal is defective and you need to replace the water pump. We will see!

I'll bet you a $20 donation to the site that it isn't your water pump.

--Mark

 

[970mike]

With the plastic off the bike do a pressure test on the cooling system and you will find one or more clamps leaking. I will also bet a $20 donation to this site it is not the water pump!!

 

[Snave]

Your bike has a perforated ABS tone wheel, which means it's a 2008 or later model. That year, Honda changed the design of the water pump cover to add a fitting with a hose attached that carries anything that gets past the seal outside of the bike and to the ground. So unless they're looking into the fitting with a borescope, what they think they're looking at isn't the inspection hole. With the hose in place, it would be impossible for coolant leaking out of what was the weep hole to get on the bottom of the oil pan and fairing.

In the shop doesn't cut it, especially if it's climate-controlled. The bike needs to get good and cold and stay that way for awhile. You said this problem started in the fall before you put the bike away for the winter. I have news for you: once the temperatures are above 10?C most of the time, it's going to stop leaking. You're in for an enjoyable, leak-free summer. And it'll start up again next fall when the temperatures drop. Pull the bike out in January, start it up and it'll leak like a sieve.

Go back to what you said in post #8: "Well, I started her up for a ride, and this is what I found while she was still warming up. Not even reached three bars." The behavior, the amount of leakage and the location are classic clamp leakage. No kidding, it's exactly what I used to see first thing in the morning before I replaced the clamps. The only difference between your pictures and mine is that my bike's faster because it's blue. And it doesn't leak anymore.

I'll bet you a $20 donation to the site that it isn't your water pump.

--Mark

With the plastic off the bike do a pressure test on the cooling system and you will find one or more clamps leaking. I will also bet a $20 donation to this site it is not the water pump!!

Guys: I picked it up early yesterday morning and ran it leak-free in their shop to three bars, before riding it away. I parked up outside my office and went out at lunch time and started up. Immediately it started dripping. The crucial thing here is that in Ottawa it was around 5C ambient yesterday, whereas their shop is a nice snug 20C. This is the big point, my garage where the bike sleeps at home isn't heated either, so probably between 0C and 5C overnight and into morning. So I called the dealer back up and emailed them photos that I had taken only minutes before , and they said - bring it back. When I got there (only five minutes from the office) it was still wet - and their mechanic acknowledged it was wet. So that was 90% of the battle - getting them to see wet, rather than dry staining. They agreed to take the fairings off and leave it outside for four or so hours so it gets nice and cold and then check again. With the fairings off they can see the source.
They have changed their diagnosis several times on this (maybe just the service adviser's interpretation?). First they said it was coming from the inspection hole. I showed them in the manual that it says weep from the inspection hole means that the pump must be replaced. They then said the weep came from the inspection pipe - which hangs below the body - and they printed the sheet from their service manual which says that is not a problem. I showed them the photos that shows that pipe as dry. Then they said it is the "bypass" pipe - no idea where that is. Then they said that while they see dry evidence of a leak, they don't see wetness, and they can't replace anything unless they see it's wet. Which is where we were yesterday - they actually saw wetness on the fairing.

Mark: you are spot on, in so many areas. Yes - it's a later bike (2009), and the problem is only visible when the bike is really cold, not the nice warm temperature in the dealer's workshop.
Mike: agreed!
Not sure if it is a clamp just yet - I have not seen the actual source of the staining. But I will let you know - and for teh heck of it I'll chip in $20 too just to say thanks for the moral support.

Hugh (Snave)

 

[Igofar]

FYI, just something to think about....it is possible for the clamps upstairs to be leaking and the coolant follows the seam of the front engine cover down and out the square hole, then runs down the bypass pipe and appears to be coming out the end of this. As far as the manual goes, the 2007 and earlier models, with the weep hole, stated that if they leaked at all, the water pump must be replaced, the 08's and later added the zerks fitting and the hose to keep people from thinking their water pump was bad because of the seeping, which they claim is now normal.
I've talked to folks inside mother Honda and was told that Honda replaced so many water pumps due to the misdiagnosed loose clamps/must be a water pump failure etc. that is the reason they changed to the hose and "its ok is it seeps a little" etc.
I would still do my best Forrest Gump and RUN far, far away from those folks at that dealership!
Hope you get things sorted out.
Wish I lived closer to you, I'd have you up and running, leak free in a few hours!
Igofar

 

[ST-Traveler]

Snave,
Did you look at my pics on post #13? is this what you are seeing? Mine was coming from the square hole by the water pump and around the water pump seal but it was the hoses in the "V"

Greg

 

[Snave]

Snave,
Did you look at my pics on post #13? is this what you are seeing? Mine was coming from the square hole by the water pump and around the water pump seal but it was the hoses in the "V"

Greg

Greg: I haven't had the plastics off, it's been with the dealer most of the time. So I haven't ripped into it like you did in your photos. I believed (stupidly it seems now) that if I have a warranty that all I need do is give the bike to them and watch magic being performed as they fix it.
Their main argument is that they only saw "history" of a leak / seep - in the staining (though mixed stories about from where). They hadn't seen any wetness or flow. And without actually seeing wetness they can't fix it. When the bike is in my garage it is at around 5C this time of the year, and when it was in the parking lot outside the office it would be a similar temperature. And that would be cold enough to open up enough for seepage. Whereas they were testing in a nice warm cosy workshop - which wasn't cold enough to induce the problem. When I tool it to them on Thursday, I drove direct from the office, and it's only about five minutes away. Their technician looked at it the moment I pulled in, and said "it's wet". One of the service advisers mentioned he could smell coolant ( I lost my sense of smell a long time ago! ). That was the eureka moment - when he said "it's wet", to me this was acceptance of the issue. As Mark says above, it would probably perform fine all summer once ambient temperatures are up - so I want to catch it now while it's easy for them to see.
Well today is Tuesday and they still have it - so I guess they are doing something... will keep you all posted and I'll make that donation when the story is closed!

 

[justin_sabre]

sounds to me like they might be replacing some hoses and just waiting for them to come in, when i ordered my hoses they said it would take a week to get them in. but on a good note sounds like they are fixing something.

 

[Flatbroke]

Thanks guys, and thanks for the offer ST-traveler ! After they stripped the plastics off, they now say there is evidence of a slight weep from the coolant pump inspection hole, and unless there is a "flow" they will not replace the seal or pump under warranty. They say there was no actual leak during several cold-hot cycles in the shop.
I told them my Honda workshop manual says: Inspect for signs of leakage. If there is leakage, the mechanical seal is defective and you need to replace the water pump. We will see!

Mine is doing the same thing. Bike is new as of late Feb and has 5300 miles. Bike in shop pump being replaced. Hope yours gets worked out. Hope mine turns out good too

 

[Flatbroke]

My bike leaks when it is hot and I noticed spots on the rear tire when I come to a stop. The coolant level was starting to reach the minimum line and blowing under the the bottom of the motor. It is coming out of the hose dead center of the front of the oil pan. I dont have a photo I can post but noticed the leak last week before heading to Russell seats to have a seat built for my Harley.

 

[dduelin]

A lot of water pumps get replaced when a 6mm nut driver or screw driver would fix the bike. Just snug the clamps. It isn't rocket science.

 

[Igofar]

 

[970mike]

Start with the simple things, tighten up the clamps before replacing hard parts!!

 

[Snave]

My bike leaks when it is hot and I noticed spots on the rear tire when I come to a stop. The coolant level was starting to reach the minimum line and blowing under the the bottom of the motor. It is coming out of the hose dead center of the front of the oil pan. I dont have a photo I can post but noticed the leak last week before heading to Russell seats to have a seat built for my Harley.

That is the breather pipe I believe, is it the one in my photo at the beginning of this thread? There may be some drops from it - but any more than that may be a problem, I'll let one of the other guys confirm.

Start with the simple things, tighten up the clamps before replacing hard parts!!

A lot of water pumps get replaced when a 6mm nut driver or screw driver would fix the bike. Just snug the clamps. It isn't rocket science.

Mike, Dave - fully understand you ! My problem is that the dealer has been very reluctant to fulfill his obligations regarding a warranty, but now they finally accepted there is a problem. I think the clamps should be spring loaded ones - not the cheap screw and wrom clamps that have no give. The spring loaded ones would exert pressure all the time as they flex - the screw ones don't.
Well - they have had the bike back a week today, no news yet. I assume that they are using the time constructively and not just hoping the problem will go away as the ambient temperature creeps upwards.

 

[Blrfl]

I think the clamps should be spring loaded ones - not the cheap screw and wrom clamps that have no give. The spring loaded ones would exert pressure all the time as they flex - the screw ones don't.

You may or may not have noticed this, but we have a longstanding thread on that subject. I've had no leaks since switching.

If Honda corrects this under warranty, the best they're going to do is tighten or replace the clamps. There's no ECN on this and no replacement part. And this problem will recur. If it is leaky clamps, the entire problem can be solved for under $30 and an afternoon of your time.

--Mark

 

[dduelin]

You may or may not have noticed this, but we have a longstanding thread on that subject. I've had no leaks since switching.

If Honda corrects this under warranty, the best they're going to do is tighten or replace the clamps. There's no ECN on this and no replacement part. And this problem will recur. If it is leaky clamps, the entire problem can be solved for under $30 and an afternoon of your time.

--Mark

Or just an afternoon of your time and a screwdriver.

 

[BakerBoy]

Snave, you've lost more hairs and riding time by having the dealer do what he's proven unwilling or unknowledgable to do. You could have had it done yourself by now AND have the learning under your belt.

Why not demand that the shop get off the fence and fix it, or better yet, get the bike out of that shop and do it yourself with better-than-OEM clamps? Read here for my similar issue and fix, using spring clamps.

 

[Snave]

You may or may not have noticed this, but we have a longstanding thread on that subject. I've had no leaks since switching.
If Honda corrects this under warranty, the best they're going to do is tighten or replace the clamps. There's no ECN on this and no replacement part. And this problem will recur. If it is leaky clamps, the entire problem can be solved for under $30 and an afternoon of your time.--Mark

Or just an afternoon of your time and a screwdriver.

Snave, you've lost more hairs and riding time by having the dealer do what he's proven unwilling or unknowledgable to do. You could have had it done yourself by now AND have the learning under your belt.
Why not demand that the shop get off the fence and fix it, or better yet, get the bike out of that shop and do it yourself with better-than-OEM clamps? Read here for my similar issue and fix, using spring clamps.

Guys: I'll be honest - I am terrified of getting behind the plastics of this. I am so scared of taking something off I can't get back on - and being really stuck. I'm also scared of finding something doesn't want to budge - and gets broken or bent during the strip down. Then, after all that - I have to look finding a leak. I'm into such big bucks with this bike (I know, it has zero value while it's in the shop with a leak), and it scares me silly that I get to a point I can't return from when I take it apart. And after all that - I still have to consider that an allegedly qualified Honda tech can't find what's wrong. But having said all that - I just got off the phone with them. Guess what: they can't find the leak, while they do see staining. It's back to the old story of: we can't fix what we don't see. They don't see something as wet - and can't just replace things ad-lib until it doesn't leak any more. What's the chances we have reached that ambient temperature where it doesn't leak, but come October... so - I may well be doing this myself after all and telling them to put their extended warranty where the sun doesn't shine.

 

[Igofar]

I would be more scared of letting those fools touch my bike! There are enough folks on this forum who would be glad to assist you and talk you through it step by step. It is not hard and can be done with e few basic hand tools and patience. Once you do it that fear will be gone and you will enjoy the fact that you did it yourself.