CPAP vs fan

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A better night sleep without a hose.
This solution is for every one else!

Decades ago, someone invented the snooze alarm. Clever, but it does not fix the problem.

So, I have an alternate solution to an age-old problem that is too easy.

So first, here is the solution, then I will do the explanation.
Yes, this is backwards than those dumb infomercials because I am not trying to sell you anything.
This is about changing the environment in which you sleep.

So tonight, place a small low speed fan on your night stand and point it at the airspace just in front of your face.
You do not need a tornado! just a slight gentle breeze. A small low speed fan.
Too much air will dry out your mouth. So, have a water bottle handy.

That simple.

So, what is the problem?

Many go to bed at night and close their bedroom door for privacy.
They close their bedroom window to keep the weather or bugs out.
They crawl under their covers, curl up, and go to sleep in a sealed still room.
They lay there not moving until daybreak.

They breath in and out, in and out, in and out.....

A stale cloud of air builds in front of their faces.
They exhale 100 times more CO2 than they took in on each breath.
10 breaths is 1000 times, 100 breaths is 10,000 times more CO2.

They lay there in this still stale air for 6 to 8 or more hours.
It is this small micro environment, filled with CO2 that needs to be blown away.
All you need is fresh air, to sleep better not stale air.

Now CO2 is not lethal, but high levels of CO2 make you feel awful and tired.
It is well known that high levels of CO2 makes you lethargic.
It creates the inability to wake up in the morning.
Snooze alarm fixes what?

Not being a morning person is excess CO2 in your system.
It does take a while to get all that extra CO2 out of your system.
Coffee anyone?

When you lay on your back, with your head on a pillow. It forces your chin on your chest.
When you lay on your side, you curl up, and put your chin on your chest.
This restricts your airway.

In CPR, the second thing you learn is to open the airway, by tilting the head back.
There are neck pillows that will create this posture when you are on your back.
You need to learn to not curl up on your side but to put your head back, a little, as if you were looking at the sky.
This will open your airway more so that you can breathe easier.

My brother and two brothers-in-law are on CPAP machines.
They all told me that it really helps them sleep better. ??
I think that having a hose shoved up my nose would be very uncomfortable and a bit over kill.
There must be a better way. Air is elastic. Hmm.

The first time I put a simple low speed fan on my night stand to just blow away my exhaled air,
The next morning my eyes popped open. I was wide awake and my head was clear.
I even felt better.

Now, every morning I jump out of bed.
I did not do that before.
So, tomorrow morning see if the same happens to you.

I am an outdoorsman. For the last 55 years I refused to sleep in a stuffy tent.
I have always slept outdoors under an open tarp or weather permitting just under the stars.
Every automobile has a fan that blows air in your face when you drive.
Every bed headboard needs to have a small quiet fan to help you sleep.
Open your windows and let in some fresh air, this will help too.

If you do have a real airway obstruction, you may still need CPAP.
CPAP is an intensive care unit (ICU) solution.
CPAP is a closed loop system and requires complex controls.

A fan is an open loop system. Simple.
This fan solution will help the rest of us who need a better night’s sleep.

If you want a smaller fan than you have, then look for a USB fan that could be plugged into the extra socket on your phone charger.
Also, they only consume 2 to 5 watts of power. So, they will run all night on a very small battery.
I even have a tiny fan on my desk at work for the same reason.

I am not selling anything here, as small fans are aplenty everywhere.
I will not make a dime off this, except the satisfaction that I did the right thing to share my idea with you.

So, turn on a small low speed fan in your bedrooms and let’s change the world.
You will know by tomorrow morning when you jump out of bed.

If it works then tell your friends.

Don't breathe stale air.

QED

Paul Raab

P.S.

Alzheimer’s might not be a disease, rather it maybe the result of very long-term exposure to this micro environment.
 

Obo

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And here I was hoping for it to explain how the air from the fan passing over your mouth and nose worked by a complex venturi effect creating a vacuum thus negating the need for a cpap.

I also think the fan assists a good night's sleep by creating white noise.
 

randalicious

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What you propose will cut the legs from under the Big CPAP industry. Similar to not participating in endless Covid booster jabs will deprive Big Pharma of a great deal of Easy Money, courtesy of the taxpayer.
OK. That is all the lame parodying that I will attempt here. But seriously, folks, . . .
My issue with sleep apnea isn't getting more CO2 away from my face, but that I do not breathe for seconds on end. I have noticed an improvement in my morning alertness and energy since adapting to CPAP.
So, IMHO, you are correct that re-breathing too much CO2 while sleeping induces lethargy.
However, my CPAP is not a closed system; it keeps light, positive air pressure on the (nose) mask. It sends a pulse of higher pressure air when it detects that regular breathing stops for more than a few seconds which, or some reason, induces regular breathing again.
It is no joke that the CPAP industry is founded on impossibly expensive computerized machinery. We're talking about Medicare paying for equipment that costs $1,000 and more for each senior recipient, who have to be in the thousands. Welcome to the Taxpayer Funded Feed Trough, CPAP industry! ;)
Presently, though, the Supply Chain issue is slowing or stopping the Medicare Healthcare Industry from delivering CPAP machines in a timely manner. Yeah, you know where most of them is made. :shrug2:
I agree that breathing in a light breeze of fresh, cool, dry Camarillo air is probably a superior alternative to breathing hot, humid, south TX air at night.
Thanks for your thought-provoking post.
 

ReSTored

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No one with sleep apnea is going to be helped by using a small fan. If you have properly diagnosed sleep apnea you should be using a CPAP.

For other people, sure, go ahead and use a fan to keep air flowing and to create a bit of white noise. All of our bedrooms have had 3 speed ceiling mounted fans for decades. We prefer to keep the AC off as much as possible and the ceiling fan allows us to extend the non AC season and sleep comfortably.
 

Obo

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All of our bedrooms have had 3 speed ceiling mounted fans for decades. We prefer to keep the AC off as much as possible and the ceiling fan allows us to extend the non AC season and sleep comfortably.
Make sure you have your ceiling fan set properly too. "blowing down" for Summer and "sucking up" for Winter.

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You don´t have "stale air" infront of your face when you sleep, that is just simply laughably absurd, google yourself schlieren video breathing if you don´t believe me.
Then, you can´t replace a CPAP with a fan, if you belive that then I have a bridge in New York to sell. And frankly I am a bit insulted. Anybody writing that hasn´t suffered hallucinations from lack of sleep, or fallen unconscious at the wheel, or choked, has burned his throat from acid and almost drowned on the contents of your stomach returning to your mouth as you sleep.
WIthout my CPAP I would be dead, it´s as simple as that.
 
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Before I lost the weight, I snored loudly and all night. I would often suddenly wake up in a panic, jump up out of bed, feeling like I'm suffocating, and scaring the crap out of PJ. Textbook apnea attacks.

I went from 385 lbs/52" waist to 230 lbs/36" waist, and have kept it off for around 15 years. After losing the weight, she told me that I completely stopped snoring, and I have never had the apnea attacks again.
 
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Before I lost the weight, I snored loudly and all night. I would often suddenly wake up in a panic, jump up out of bed, feeling like I'm suffocating, and scaring the crap out of PJ. Textbook apnea attacks.

I went from 385 lbs/52" waist to 230 lbs/36" waist, and have kept it off for around 15 years. After losing the weight, she told me that I completely stopped snoring, and I have never had the apnea attacks again.
Sadly it´s genetics in my family. There was a picture in the local news many years ago, showing my dad, my uncles and myself fast asleep on a bench in a park sending up such world beating Zeds that it was newsworthy.
 
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Weight can definitely be an aggravating or even causal factor. My mom had apnea and weighed in at 105 lbs soaking wet. She could never get used the cpap though. I use one, granted I am about 40 lbs overweight so that no doubt contributes.

Re Alzheimers - there was an article in the Globe and Mail (Canada's self proclaimed "National Newspaper) about a researcher in Toronto who has made some interesting progress with his thesis that it's an autoimmune issue and that the plaques we have been hearing about are actually good.....until they aren't. From the article;

"Instead of viewing beta amyloid as an unwanted protein, Dr. Weaver suggests it is actually a normal part of the innate immune system in the brain, and plays a number of roles, including as a messenger and as a bacteria-killer. Anything that produces an immune response, whether it’s an infection, trauma or exposure to noxious substances, triggers cells in the brain to release beta amyloid, he explains.

The problem occurs when beta amyloid mistakes healthy brain cells for bacteria, he says. “The end result is that it – oops! – accidentally starts killing brain cells.
”"

My mom went from Alzheimers. Nasty cruel disease.
 

Obo

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My bother used a CPAP machine but had a custom mouthpiece made by the dentist and that achieved the same function he needed the CPAP for. He was then able to sleep without the CPAP. Cost was the $600 range, and may not work for all depending on why you have a CPAP/BiPAP unit. Obviously this isn't an option for everyone.

For me, I have a BiPAP machine with a nasal pillow mask. I'm a stomach sleeper and regular full face masks don't work for me. Other than the hose, it's like having no mask at all.
I also like having air blowing in my face from a fan when I sleep though. Perhaps subconsciously it's like riding on my bike with the wind in my face.

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While CPAP machines are the most common treatment for sleep apnea there are other options.

For those looking at alternatives here's some great suggestions from weight loss to surgeries. Obviously consult with a professional before you decide to switch from whatever you have to an alternate treatment.


I think overall there are great ideas here to help you decide what works best for you, or what you can do to help make things work as best they can.

Getting a good night's sleep is just as important as waking up from it in the morning. :)

If you're not convinced yet, just sleep on it.

A SeeCAT device for sleep aPURRnea.

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OP
OP
spiderman302
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Again I did state that this is something for everyone else.
Those who have blockage need CPAP, the rest of us can be helped with a fan.
and there are those who are on CPAP who do not really need it but they need other assistance.

this is just another solution that does work fine for me and made a big difference. other choices.
I stirred the pot again and got you thinking of alternatives.
This is what discussion is about.
sleep well.
got to go jump on the bike to get better air....
 

bdalameda

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My Apnea condition is related to the size of my airway. I have a very receded chin - the doctor considers this to be a birth defect. My airway is only open about 9mm so when I sleep and the muscles relax the air gets shut off. No amount of fan will solve this only positive air pressure will work. I do however sleep with a fan flowing air over me. I did not know about this condition when I was younger and always had issues with tiredness and a lot of choking when eating. this was going back in my early teens. When I did my sleep study my doctor told me I was lucky to still be alive as my condition was so bad.
 
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My Apnea condition is related to the size of my airway. I have a very receded chin - the doctor considers this to be a birth defect. My airway is only open about 9mm so when I sleep and the muscles relax the air gets shut off. No amount of fan will solve this only positive air pressure will work. I do however sleep with a fan flowing air over me. I did not know about this condition when I was younger and always had issues with tiredness and a lot of choking when eating. this was going back in my early teens. When I did my sleep study my doctor told me I was lucky to still be alive as my condition was so bad.
Yes, that is me too. My cpap is set to leafblower without a ramp, Ramp is for pussies, that first rush of air when your lungs get blown up like two party balloons and I am asleep before my head hits the pillow.
 
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spiderman302
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Ten years ago I was heading toward the CPAP solution. I thought it was over kill for my condition which was mild.
So I tried the simple solution of a fan. Yes I did the math. CPAP is 6 to 14 cmH2O and a fan is 0.2 cmH2O.
I am an old cross country runner and peddle bike rider, but I snore like a grizzly bear.
I started out with the fan in my face and it was good enough.
After trying lots of different things over time, I discovered that just gently blowing air across my face was enough !!!
I did not need to blow air into my face, this is when I started to think about the stale air problem.
I remember my younger days being around others who smoked and if in a room with no moving air they were lost in a blue cloud.
A closed bedroom with no moving air is a problem.
My solution is plan B for those who do not need plan A.
Plan B does not negate the need for plan A for those who need it.
 
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