Does ATGATT Work

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Here in the Fatherland all gear must be CE certified, Helmets have to have be TÜV-tested on top of that, so there is at least a base line of protection.
Having said that, coming off your bike at 300 or close to it as damn and all the gear in the world won´t protect you.
 

tjhiggin

R.I.P. - 2022/06/11
Rest In Peace
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I'm ATGATT. When (not if) I hit the ground, I intend to get back up.

I wear a white helmet because it's cooler here in the hot southern US. This thread is the first I've heard that white is more visible than hi-viz colors. Hooray for serendipity.

Someone mentioned armored jeans. Also available are armored shirts, e.g.: https://www.cyclegear.com/gear/speed-and-strength-black-9-moto-shirt
 

jfheilman

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I have been following this thread since it started but have not commented. I was interested to see if anyone stated that they were NOT ATGATT. I do not remember anyone making that statement. I am not an ATGATT rider.

There are several reasons but first let me give you my background in riding. I have been riding since 2001 (well I did ride a few years in 1970's). Since I restarted riding I have about 350,000 miles on two wheels. Have visited all 48 states (not Alaska or Hawaii) and four Canadian provinces).

I started out in 2001 with a full face helmet and then transitioned to a half helmet then a 3/4 and now a Shark Evoline. Shark is one of two (I think) convertible helmets that are certified to use in the open face mode.

I wear a leather jacket, when the weather permits, and then a mesh jacket, and then no jacket. (Will tell you why below). I wear standard jeans. I have worn draggin jeans in past and well, just started wearing jeans from Duluth Trading. I have worn a Kevlar mesh under shirt in the past, but no longer. A matter of comfort. I wear Sidi motorcycle boots. They are above the ankle boots. They are comfortable and improve ankle safety and I have no problem wearing them all day, walking or riding (which is very, very important).

In my 350,000 miles on two wheels I have had to "incidents". One, parking my bike in 2002. I was trying to make a tight turn in the parking lot and it fell over (I was obviously inexperienced in doing that turn). As a result I had a broken ankle. In 2014, on a trip to Nova Scotia, somewhere on an interstate in VA, or WV, a deer ran out in front of me on my ST. I was in the left hand lane and I eased off the throttle, held the handlebars very tight and the deer hit the front wheel and swirled around the back of the bike. My riding buddy behind me managed to dodge the deer as we pulled off the road. I rode the bake to the right shoulder to look for damage. Bike had some cosmetic damage but was mechanically sound, and we continued the trip to Nova Scotia and back.

Thats it. That is my experience in my 350,000 miles on two wheels. Close calls, not really. Small deer on the side of the road, a few. Dogs, only one. Bears, deer, just the one noted above.

Now to my reasons for not being ATGATT. First, I see many riders using modular helmets that are in the "open" position and riding with them that way when we all know they are not "tested" or "approved" for that configuration. Which is why I now wear a Shark Evoline. One of two helmets (I believe) that are approved/safe for riding in 3/4 mode.

Second, and this is just an illustration of why, when I was taking my motorcycle safety course I was taught (if memory serves) that safety in motorcycle riding is 90% concentration. That is, you must be alert, not distracted, and be paying constant attention to the roadways and what is happening in front and behind you on the road.

I have seen too many examples of ATGATT riders who, when riding that way, are not really comfortable and therefore distracted. The main example I can give is when we were riding on US 33 in West Virginia and we stopped at Seneca Rocks in WV. It was summer and two riders were stopped at the store/gas station there. They were ATGATT riders and their faces were red and they were sweating profusely. Not good. Riding is 90% concentration as I noted above. When you are that hot, you can easily loose concentration.

Another example I will use is my last trip out west in June 2015. I was wearing my mesh jacket and wore it all the way until we started to return home. The temperature was in the low 90's and very humid (somewhere in Colorado I think). It was uncomfortable to continue that way. There was no room on the bike to store the jacket so we stopped and shipped it home UPS. Much cooler riding without it and much safer, remember concentration to the ride is 90% of being safe.

I wear gloves all of the time but they type varies based on the temperature and conditions. Leather gloves in moderate weather and some diving gloves when its raining. And if you are wondering why the diving gloves, its becuase I have never ever found a comfortable pair of waterproof gloves so I decided that I would accede to need to allow my gloves to be wet. Therefor I wear diving gloves when it rains. They are designed to be wet and use wet.

In very cold weather and with heated grips, I use some specific gloves designed for outdoor hikers to keep my hands warm. Again, comfort and not being distracted is very very important to safe riding. Therefore I also wear a heated jacket liner in very cold weather under my leather jacket. I have tried heated gloves and found they do not work well in that fingertips were always cold. The outdoor gloves do not have that problem (heated grips keep the hands warm). Again, comfort is very, very important to safe riding.

In summary, no I am not an ATGATT rider.

Edited to add the following:

I want to include a link to what kind of riding the wife and I do. So, here is a link to one of our most recent riding adventures on Rumble.

https://rumble.com/v12yeyc-starting-the-climb-south-on-ar-123.html
 
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rogo

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I'm totally comfortable in my R3 'stitch and full face Arai. ATGATT adds confidence and lets me focus on riding.
 
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A guy I met here in Arizona last fall was involved in a motorcycle accident in Minnesota a couple of weeks ago. Here is what he has to say. Yep he walked away.

"Some of you have heard I was in a crash while riding my motorcycle in Minnesota a couple weeks ago. I was riding in the far left lane when a truck entered the freeway, rapidly crossed three lanes and hit me. Thanks to my Schuberth full face helmet and Aerostich Darien jacket, I am alive and have no road rash or broken bones. My R1250 RT, helmet and jacket are a total loss. The Highway Patrol and EMT said I would not have survived it if I hadn't been wearing a helmet. The chin bar saved my face. Iron Horse had an identical 2020 RT for sale , which I purchased. It really is true, all the gear all the time. Lewie Marshall"
I am Lewie Marshall the guy that crashed. I don’t remember anything after the sound of the pickup truck hitting me, I was unconscious for a while, My full face helmet had scrapes all around it and a very large deep gouge on my chin bar. After I came to, I was a bit dizzy the rest of the day. I had dirt all over my face from sliding on the shoulder of the freeway. I was a little fuzzy headed for several days afterward. My motorcycle, helmet, and jacket are a total loss. When I regained consciousness, the highway patrol and ambulance were there. In addition to abrasions and a few holes, my jacket was filthy on both sides. It had armor in the back, shoulders, and elbows. The helmet and jacket did their job. Lewie
 

sherob

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Another example I will use is my last trip out west in June 2015. I was wearing my mesh jacket and wore it all the way until we started to return home. The temperature was in the low 90's and very humid (somewhere in Colorado I think). It was uncomfortable to continue that way. There was no room on the bike to store the jacket so we stopped and shipped it home UPS. Much cooler riding without it and much safer, remember concentration to the ride is 90% of being safe.
Humidity in Colorado? You live in SC? Heresy! :biggrin:
 

Gerhard

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Reading some of this discussion reminds me of the people everyone seems to know who’s life was saved by not wearing their seatbelt, maybe not impossible but certainly improbable.
 
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don't get on the ground in the first place, figure out how to make that never happen. And yes, that's a period, of course it never goes that way, I've been following this thread pretty closely and see it's time for me to get my ___ together, get some proper gear, be prepared, great thread, hope it goes on
 
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First, I see many riders using modular helmets that are in the "open" position and riding with them that way when we all know they are not "tested" or "approved" for that configuration.
That may be true in the US - not here in the UK. ECE 22.05 fixed that with the P/J ratings (P = only tested/certified closed, J = can be used in open configuration). Do older modular helmets exist before the legislation to test/approve them? Sure. I even own one.

The thing really to worry about with a modular helmet is "when riding in the open position, what's the chances of the chin bar catching street furniture during an oops moment?" I certainly wouldn't want that kind of rotational force applied to the top of my neck... but I do still ride with a modular helmet, probably 40% of the time in the open configuration.

Informed folk making a personal choice should never be a bad thing - even if individuals don't agree.

I am Lewie Marshall the guy that crashed.
Welcome aboard the forum, glad you survived it.
 
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I am Lewie Marshall the guy that crashed. I don’t remember anything after the sound of the pickup truck hitting me, I was unconscious for a while, My full face helmet had scrapes all around it and a very large deep gouge on my chin bar. After I came to, I was a bit dizzy the rest of the day. I had dirt all over my face from sliding on the shoulder of the freeway. I was a little fuzzy headed for several days afterward. My motorcycle, helmet, and jacket are a total loss. When I regained consciousness, the highway patrol and ambulance were there. In addition to abrasions and a few holes, my jacket was filthy on both sides. It had armor in the back, shoulders, and elbows. The helmet and jacket did their job. Lewie
Welcome Lewie, glad you can tell your tale.
Upt'North.
 
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don't get on the ground in the first place, figure out how to make that never happen. And yes, that's a period, of course it never goes that way, I've been following this thread pretty closely and see it's time for me to get my ___ together, get some proper gear, be prepared, great thread, hope it goes on
I never planned to be on the ground either, I also didnt plan on a year old tire to blow up and put me there. In fact I bought the new tire to prevent just that. But guess what,,, only so many things you can control.
 

Sadlsor

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I'm an ATTGAT rider for several reasons.
I HAVE been on the ground, not my fault (not that the ground cares at all) and as a new rider at 16yo, had no jacket and no gloves. Summers are hot here in Alabama, and I simply didn't know any better.
The road rash prevented me from seeing Pink Floyd live in Atlanta, but I got over that. Treatment is identical to burn injuries. 2x daily debridement (painful) and sterilization of wound sites. That daily routine took a bit longer to get over... it lasted for weeks.
As an MSF RiderCoach, I completely agree with the concentration comments. But consider, I can't help but get distracted when rocks or pebbles hit my hands and fingers (so I always wear gloves), and we dehydrate much quicker when our skin is exposed to wind (so I wear a full-sleeve jacket). Also, raindrops hurt me at 70mph (so I wear a jacket and gloves and full-face helmet.) Also, junebugs hurt when they hit at 70mph (so I wear a jacket.)
The jacket is an insulator, helping keep me cooler than riding in the wind. The jacket is an insulator (along with layers), helping me stay warmer in cold weather.
When your body becomes dehydrated, over heated, or hypothermic, your mind loses focus -- thus reducing concentration.
So I wear it.
But I only wear stuff that fits me... so that should be mentioned in this discussion. I'm more comfortable wearing the gear.
"Aren't you hot, wearing all that gear in the summer here in Alabama?!"
Answer: well, yes. Yes I am. But it's always hot in the summers, so I would be hot if I weren't wearing it, too.
No judgement here, I'm all for folks doing as they will. Liberty, brothers! (and sisters.)
 

Sadlsor

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Definitely wouldn't leave you comfortably numb
I remember the event in vivid detail, even 49 years after.
And I can assure you, I was neither comfortable nor numb.
Decades later, I had a crash at a much higher rate of speed, when an incoming car clipped my left aluminum pannier on an ADV bike, knocking me completely off the road.
I went down an embankment, out of sight, and the group I was riding with saw it and they all swore they thought I was toast.
ATTGAT saved my hide (and fortunately I missed the large boulders, which helped). But I did tear a leather Galco IWB holster, which irritated me.
The aluminum pannier ripped open like a sardine can. And the bike was totalled, so that was a bit of a bummer.
But not a scratch on me. Not one.
The club thought I would be dead.
So yeah, I'll wear the gear.
 
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The minimum I ever wear is a padded jacket, light gloves, tough long pants, and ankle-covering boots.

If I'm going out for a fun ride, I wear padded pants, too, and always zip the jacket and pants together.

I wear a Neotec I helmet, usually with the front section up, but I can drop and latch it with a quick nod.
 
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