Driving vs Passing lights -- LED

[TotaledTL]

Passing lights are NOT fog nor cornering / ditch lights. Passing lights must have cutoff to prevent glare. Passing lights are aux low beams.

Read carefully….

------------------------- ( begin rules )

There is no federal regulation of driving, passing, or fog lights; the California Highway Patrol is therefore authorized to establish requirements for such lighting Auxiliary Driving and Passing Lamps.

California Vehicle Code 24402. (1959 to present) (Your state rules may differ - but pay attention to the definitions here)

(a) Any motor vehicle may be equipped with not to exceed two auxiliary driving lamps mounted on the front at a height of not less than 16 inches nor more than 42 inches. Driving lamps are lamps designed for supplementing the upper beam from headlamps and may not be lighted with the lower beam.

(b) Any motor vehicle may be equipped with not to exceed two auxiliary passing lamps mounted on the front at a height of not less than 24 inches nor more than 42 inches. Passing lamps are lamps designed for supplementing the lower beam from headlamps and may also be lighted with the upper beam.

24403. ( fog lights follow under a different rule )

(a) A motor vehicle may be equipped with not more than two foglamps that may be used with, but may not be used in substitution of, headlamps.

(c) On a motorcycle, the foglamps authorized under this section shall be mounted on the front at a height of not less than 12 inches nor more than 40 inches and aimed so that when the vehicle is not loaded none of the high-intensity portion of the light to the left of the center of the vehicle projects higher than a level of four inches below the level of the center of the lamp from which it comes, for a distance of 25 feet in front of the vehicle.

---------------------------------------- ( end of the rules )

Wow what a missed opportunity here. All you read about is driving and fog lights......

Now what is a passing light ?? Where are the passing lights? Who makes and sells passing lights? -- Nobody? Since 1959?


I use low beams 98% of the time and I can have an auxiliary low beam to be used at the same time as the low beam !!!

Like all the time!


Wake up lighting industry! You missed the boat again!

----------------------------------------

So a long time ago when I was riding with halogen lighting,
I added extra led driving lights on my over the mirror mounts and fog lights to my forks.

These lights did improve the lighting situation until I upgraded to H4 (F2/F3) LEDs for the main lights.
After which these extra lights did not make much of an improvement and fell into disuse.
They had become merely ornamental lights.
I removed the 4 inch fog lights from the forks because they kept rattling loose.

150k miles later I noticed that the over the mirror lights were vibrating more than usual.
Upon inspection I found that the over the mirror mounts were only attached to the plastic faring which had cracked.
I glued the mounts with ABS cement and started to look for better lights that were smaller.

Yes there are bigger and brighter driving lights but I wanted something in the 2 to 3 inch range to keep the weight down.

I decided that I wanted a spot (pencil beam) since the led headlights that I have does a great job lighting up the road.

The very small 2.5 inch driving lights that I really liked were not bright enough.
They measured 25 watts, 640 lux @ 18 ft, but the shallow reflectors did not capture enough of the light for the spot and the spot was the wider of the group.
This 2.5 inch light would be a better choice for you if you spent most of your nighttime riding on the beloved curved roads.

https://www.amazon.com/Motorcycle-Spotlight-Universal-Motorbike-Auxiliary/dp/B08D8ZCNKZ

But if you ride on the open range straight roads where the deer and antelope play you might want a tighter pencil beam spot.
I found these two 3 inch driving lights that have a tighter brighter spot, both at 30 watts, 1500 lux @ 18 ft, with deep reflectors which makes a narrower beam.

https://www.amazon.com/Auxbeam-Offroad-Driving-Automotive-Wrangler/dp/B0998TN6BG

https://www.amazon.com/AUXMOTEC-Driving-Waterproof-Polaris-Wrangler/dp/B0873C3818

The lights on the left was the old setup and the lights on the right are the new improved set up.....
The old 10 watt spot measured 470 lux @ 18 ft.
I had used the Run-D lights as an Alley or ditch lights.

98% of my riding - I can only use the low beam.

So I need to find a passing light, which according to California rules is an aux low beam.
A low beam does not have glare.
A passing light would be a pencil/spot/driving beam that has a sharp cut off. No glare.

Most cornering lights on the newer cars have glare so they are not passing lights.

No one makes such a light or advertises as such!!! Again, what a complete missed opportunity.

I would prefer a reflector design passing light since they are more efficient.
Some reflectors that I found, that might be a passing light, have a sloppy cutoff.

But there are some projector aux fog lights that might work, but they are half as bright as my low beam.
I like this one at 17 watts, 850 lux @ 18ft, which I am going to try but, it will take 4 of these to complement the H4 LEDs light level.
I only use the low beam mode with this light. There are other similar lights that are dual color. ---( I do not like yellow light at night, just my preference.)

https://www.amazon.com/Driving-Motorcycle-Function-Headlights-Polaris/dp/B083TXGSGV

I am testing with only one on the side of the driving lights. I have a few more other lights on order to test in the future.

So I have stirred the pot, lets see what we can brew up……
Put yer thinking caps on...

Just to be clear I am talking about a concept not a particular product....

----------------------------------- edit...

example found down at post #20. But do read this thread since there is a lot of information presented here.

3E Passing light

-----------------------------------------

This one --> https://www.amazon.com/AUXMOTEC-Driving-Waterproof-Polaris-Wrangler/dp/B0873C3818 appears to be different now; note the center LED segment is not there.

 

[spiderman302]

No, that is a different light with 4 leds that I did not show but used as another reference driving light. the link above it was the one with 5 leds that I had mounted. sorry for not explaining completely.

 

[spiderman302]

Ok here is a good example of a passing light (and there are now more) !!!

This one has the old Cibie Z-beam pattern that made the H4 halogen bulb famous back in the early 70's.
this light has a very sharp cutoff that makes it perfect to use as a passing light or fog light.
It has a bonus driving high beam. ( the high beam does converge with the low beam at a further distance )

This light is not as bright as the 3E light since the pattern is more spread out, but it matches the brightness of what the F2 will do in our bikes. (The 3E is only 20 watts but has a peak of 1850 lux @ 18ft. Reflectors are more efficient than projectors)
This light is 30 watts on low beam with a peak of 650 lux and 21 watts for the high beam another 650 lux (1300 combined). Most fogs are in the 200-300 lux range.
See table in post 13 here.
Yes 50 watts for both beams! 100 watts for a pair all on... It really lights up the sides of the road!
The DB-M will not disappoint !

It also has a yellow led that alternates between the white. you have to toggle the low to change colors - which I find annoying.
hopefully they will come out with a white only version soon, but it is a clever implementation that I will put up with for testing.
But you might like it as a "do it all" light.



This can be found on amazon

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BVDNHFB5

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXD2H8D7

or here

COLIGHT® 3inch White&Yellow Hi-Low Beam DB-M Series Motorcycle Auxilary Fog lights

More and more lamps with projection technology are pouring into the market, it is not only the innovation of technology but also the projection technology can guide the light to the focusing lens, almost double the light output in a small size, with a clear cut-off, with almost no scattering...

www.led-colight.com

when I ordered it from Colight it took over 2 weeks to get it since it shipped from China....

This light should be sold as a passing light !

wait there is more.....

 

[spiderman302]

So here is another light that has a complex lens that makes a sharp cutoff.
It is hard to see but the flat light pattern will verify that it is the newer design.
The previous projector lights have curved rectangle pattern with fringing stray light that adds some glare.
The steeper angle on the top of the lens flattens the beam and eliminates the fringing glare.
The old patten is on the bottom in the photo and the new flat beam is shown on the top.
There are several lights that have this beam pattern and it is what to look for.




This is one of the lights that I have found that will be of interest.

https://www.amazon.com/NAOEVO-6000LM-Driving-Bright-Camper/dp/B0BCPVX4C6

It is 25 watts and is a little brighter (750 lux) than the Co-light above because of a tighter pattern. I will call them about equal.




This one would also make a good passing light ! --- extra glare free lighting that can be used in traffic.....
Remember that passing lights are aux low beams mounted high (over mirrors) just below your line of vision.
fog lights are mounted low (on forks) close to the road to reduce retroreflections.
both need cutoff to reduce glare to both on coming traffic and you the rider.
Driving lights are aux high beams that light up the trees above but can not be used with traffic at night.
Driving light are best for daytime conspicuously lights.
Passing lights are the most useful addition for night time riding, they project further down the road as well as add to the sides of the road.

It is all about having sharp cutoff which eliminates the glare factor.

The next step is getting the trapezoid beam pattern.....

 

[Obo]

Yes with the wire coming out of the top. I later put a bead of RTV silicon glue to seal the wire-hole.

I had one of my zmoons go bad on me, and it took a bit of figuring what was happening so I'll pass it along.

One light was staying yellow while the other was going white. Both are fed from the same relay.

When testing them with an external battery direct they worked as designed. (scratched head more than once...)

Long story short, one of the lights had grounded itself internally to thebody, and thus the mounting bracket and then to the frame of the bike (thru the fork.) Power to either the red or yellow wire (for the white and yellow emitters) gave you a yellow light, even if the black ground wasn't attached. When you tested with an external power source you removed this ground issue and it worked normally.

I ended up modifying the mount to insulate it from the fork/frame (so no extra grounding) and then it worked as desired.

I opened up the light to see if I could see a shorted wire, but the circuit board is siliconed in there and wasn't coming out. There is a lot of open to the elements circuitry in there though.

I had siliconed around the wire on the top to prevent water getting in, but when I removed the rear fan to look inside, it's all open anyway. You can silicone in around the wire entrance, but water will get in via the fan and around the sides of the fins. There seems to be no real way to deal these lights up. How they will perform in the long run is TBA. There is an oring seal for the parabolic lens though.

They had been working as desired when I installed them. I'm wondering if washing the bike had any effect. I just used well eater pressure and tried to keep it away from the lights knowing there was a fan there.

 

[Obo]

So this is what the 3E light looks like and how it fits, being so wide. I did have to use an over size nut as a spacer to lift the light higher so it would clear the windshield.
shown with the 3 inch driving light pod for comparison.

I'm guessing with the way the reflector is designed that these wouldn't be great if inverted (hanging from the bolt vs sitting on top like yours) and would put the sharp cutoff closer to the bike and downfield it would not be a clean cut off?

 

[spiderman302]

I'm guessing with the way the reflector is designed that these wouldn't be great if inverted

The 3E light works better if mounted upside down. I am going to flip mine over and add a driving light to it one of these days......

I do really like how the 3E really projects a bright wide pattern down the road.

 

[jfheath]

This is a personal opinion which I don't think is shared by many. You may disagree, but I think super bright lights don't always do what people think that they do, and in some circumstances can be dangerous.

Certainly you can see them, but often you cannot make out what it is that is making the light, and it can be difficult to judge how far away it is, how fast it is going or even whether or not it is moving.

It's just a very bright light that looks as though it is staying in the same position, and blocks out any of the other points of reference that you need - including any cyclists or pedestrians in front.

So as you approach the vehicle waiting to emerge from a side junction, imagine the driver thinking - "That bright light is in the same position that it was in the last time I looked. It must be stationary" - and they pull out in front of you.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

Not specific to any lighting arrangement mentioned here but as a general observation of lighting that is excessively bright, I agree with you John. The logic behind blinding everyone coming towards you or who you are approaching, people upon whose actions your safety depends, always escaped me.

 

[spiderman302]

You missed the point.
Passing lights are low beams with sharp cutoff.
This prevents causing the glare that so many bad lighting arrangement's have.
There are a lot of bad fog lights that cause glare on modern cars because they are not built correctly.

You can put more light on the road and NOT blind on coming traffic (per our rules here in the USA see post 30 ).
your rules may prevent you from doing this.

This first requires lights that work like low beams (that have sharp cutoff) and have proper aiming of the beam.
I am happy with just the improvement with the current H4 led bulbs, such that this thread is just an academic exercise in what can be done in a safe manner.
Hopefully through my technical posts here, I have educated our fellow riders the details necessary to do it right.
There is a point of diminishing returns. The old halogen headlight system was barely adequate to be safe at 70 MPH.

 

[ST Gui]

This is a personal opinion which I don't think is shared by many.

I've made the same observations. spiderman's sig does likewise. Check your state/province/counties vehicle code for any sections dealing with the aiming of lights and the use of of lights in particular on dimming the driving/high beam to low/passing beam.

Further lights don't have to be super bright to be a hazard. Being poorly aimed can be enough. Some people use the "nobody flashed at me so my lights must be ok" method. That's a joke. Care should be taken to properly adjust lights and not rely on the "Nobody Flashed Me" hit or miss method.

And any "off-road" light is tabled as such because it doesn't have DOT approval whether or not it meets their requirements. Odds are they don't. Lots of people use them on the road anyway. Used carefully they might not be much of a problem if any at all.

 

[Obo]

This is a personal opinion which I don't think is shared by many. You may disagree, but I think super bright lights don't always do what people think that they do, and in some circumstances can be dangerous.

Certainly you can see them, but often you cannot make out what it is that is making the light, and it can be difficult to judge how far away it is, how fast it is going or even whether or not it is moving.

It's just a very bright light that looks as though it is staying in the same position, and blocks out any of the other points of reference that you need - including any cyclists or pedestrians in front.

So as you approach the vehicle waiting to emerge from a side junction, imagine the driver thinking - "That bright light is in the same position that it was in the last time I looked. It must be stationary" - and they pull out in front of you.

I don't disagree. That's why I've always said you want a distinctly visible triangle of light on your bike.
What looks like a super bright spot of lights to a driver could be a motorcycle up close with lots of lights or a vehicle far enough away that it's 2 headlights look like just a single bright light.
When they judge that vehicle type and distance wrong is when it gets dangerous.

 

[jfheath]

You missed the point.
Passing lights are low beams with sharp cutoff.

Yes - I missed the point ! Goodness knows it was described clearly enough in the comments that were made.

Heath: Reading. Must try harder.

But I did qualify my comment.

Here in the UK we are permitted main beam and dipped beam. And there are very strict tests that they have to pass at MOT time. Projected into a special lens and the spread, shape and colour of the beam have to fall within chart on the wall. Because it needs specialist equipment, if it is slightly off the tester will adjust it. But too much blue tinge will fail.

I don't know the law on driving lights - which we are also allowed - I've never felt the need to have them - although I have to admit the low slung ones on some of the BMWs make their presence felt without blocking out what is going on behind or masking the speed.

But we also have a 'Pass' switch which is a spring loaded button on the left index finger of the 1100, and a spring loaded rocker on the Hi Lo dip beam switch on the 1300, Both are so that you can flash the main beam to alert other users of your presence - and since it puts main beam and dipped beam on at the same time, is pretty useful for illuminating dark roads. (The standard electrical circuits cater for this - power coming from three separate fuses for the headlights.)

 

[spiderman302]

And there are very strict tests that they have to pass at MOT time. Projected into a special lens and the spread, shape and colour of the beam have to fall within chart on the wall. Because it needs specialist equipment, if it is slightly off the tester will adjust it. But too much blue tinge will fail.

We really need this in the USA. I have to get a smog test every time I renew my registration on my trucks, but never check the light aim.
There are a lot of cars on the road that do need adjustment.
There is also the problem of old clouded plastic lens that diffuses the low beams.

In the USA we are allowed three pairs of lights that can be used in traffic. In fact that is why the FORD F150/250 has dual low beams and fogs!

 

[Larry Fine]

I just got my 'Moons in. The instruction leaflet is useless.

Does anyone have a beam pattern photo you can share?

 

[northwestparider]

This is a personal opinion which I don't think is shared by many. You may disagree, but I think super bright lights don't always do what people think that they do, and in some circumstances can be dangerous.

Certainly you can see them, but often you cannot make out what it is that is making the light, and it can be difficult to judge how far away it is, how fast it is going or even whether or not it is moving.

It's just a very bright light that looks as though it is staying in the same position, and blocks out any of the other points of reference that you need - including any cyclists or pedestrians in front.

So as you approach the vehicle waiting to emerge from a side junction, imagine the driver thinking - "That bright light is in the same position that it was in the last time I looked. It must be stationary" - and they pull out in front of you.

I agree about lights being too bright. The ones with the bright lights that I find extremely hazardous are, ready for this, the police.

Pennsylvania State cruises have red, white and blue lights flashing and spots facing both forward and backwards. The are blinding when you're approaching from either direction. You cannot see where the trooper is if they are or of the vehicle. It's really very excessive. I understand why they want it, but it's too much.

 

[Obo]

I just got my 'Moons in. The instruction leaflet is useless.

Does anyone have a beam pattern photo you can share?

You want the wire that comes out of the light to be either on the top or the bottom.
If it's on the top, the white light will project further and the yellow will be closer. That's how I did mine with the yellow / low beam, white / high beam scenario.
If it's on the bottom, the yellow will go further and the white will be closer.
You don't want the wire coming out either side of the pattern will be basically a vertical line down the road.
I don't have a beam pattern and the bike's in hibernation jammed in with the cars.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

I agree about lights being too bright. The ones with the bright lights that I find extremely hazardous are, ready for this, the police.

Pennsylvania State cruises have red, white and blue lights flashing and spots facing both forward and backwards. The are blinding when you're approaching from either direction. You cannot see where the trooper is if they are or of the vehicle. It's really very excessive. I understand why they want it, but it's too much.

Agreed. All emergency vehicles have switched to LED lights and they are far to bright. When approaching at night they are blinding making it a more dangerous accident scene in my opinion. If drivers passing by can't see that is not safer. I see no reason why the lights of emergency vehicles need to be seen from the space station. Getting people's attention fron a 1/2 mile away should be plenty.

 

[Willsmotorcycle]

I just got my 'Moons in. The instruction leaflet is useless.

Does anyone have a beam pattern photo you can share?

I was clicking through the reviews from Amazon, there are a few pictures with the pattern. As OBO said, wire up or down, not side to side. Its a rectangle beam, wire down lights the road, wire up lights the trees.

 

[Flexit]

I just got my 'Moons in. The instruction leaflet is useless.

Hi @Larry Fine. Mine are on the way from your side of the pond. Just out of curiosity, where have you mounted them on an 1100? I am pondering under the tip-over wings or on the fork legs.

Frank
Gloucester, UK