Dual-Star heated grip users

[willymakit]

I got my heaters from Mike at Warm-n-Safe because of ordering other stuff, they are similar to Symtec and use the same round rocker switch. The switch has a hi-lo setting, if you are going to use it this way you will need (2) relays, one for lo, and one for hi. I ran a fused wire forward to the relays, and used a switched wire to power the hi-lo switch. You might want to use a fuse block similar to this, as you can see I also mounted a +12v buss, the relays I mounted on the tube of the Upper Cowl Stay. See the pic. If you need help with the switch let me know, it's really easy. This was all part of a Stebel horn, heated grip and heated jacket liner socket/+12v charging socket install.
BTW, figerin' how to post pic is way harder than above job!!! willy

 

[Throttlejockey]

Why did you need relays for the heated grips?

 

[Tankereng]

Why did you need relays for the heated grips?

To reduce the amperage through the switch hopefully increasing it's life.... I just completed my installation...

 

[hojo in sc]

Why did you need relays for the heated grips?

Depends upon the install technique. A relay is used to pull power from the battery, without pulling power from the source that may not be able to handle the load needed to power the device (heated grips in this case).

 

[Throttlejockey]

Is that because it's the smaller rocker switch? I have the same heated grips on my KTM w/o the relays.

 

[Throttlejockey]

I was going to wire them like this guy did. To the accessory harness.
http://www.digitalhooligans.com/blog/2007/12/02/installing-symtec-grip-heaters/

 

[Tankereng]

I had the grip heaters on a Ninja several years ago wired straight to the battery with a toggle switch under the fairing...worked fine until I crunched the bike......

 

[hojo in sc]

Is that because it's the smaller rocker switch? I have the same heated grips on my KTM w/o the relays.

It depends on where you tap into your power source. If you tap directly to the battery, then all you have is an On/Off switch (okay, maybe a Hi/Lo as well), with a FUSE in between the switch and battery.

If you want to get the power to the grips via a wire on the bike that comes On ONLY when the bike is turned on (say your driving lights), then you run the risk that the heated grips will draw too much power and shut off your running lights (blow a fuse). In other words, you can draw more power from a wire than what it was intended for.

In this example (using the driving light to power the heated grips), you would want the Relay. The Relay would be 'powered on' when the bike is turned on (because you run a wire from the running light to the relay), but then the Relay will gets it's JUICE directly from the battery and not the running light. Hence, not pulling juice from the running lights, leaving your running lights save from a power surge.

 

[throxy]

It depends on where you tap into your power source. If you tap directly to the battery, then all you have is an On/Off switch (okay, maybe a Hi/Lo as well), with a FUSE in between the switch and battery.

If you want to get the power to the grips via a wire on the bike that comes On ONLY when the bike is turned on (say your driving lights), then you run the risk that the heated grips will draw too much power and shut off your running lights (blow a fuse). In other words, you can draw more power from a wire than what it was intended for.

In this example (using the driving light to power the heated grips), you would want the Relay. The Relay would be 'powered on' when the bike is turned on (because you run a wire from the running light to the relay), but then the Relay will gets it's JUICE directly from the battery and not the running light. Hence, not pulling juice from the running lights, leaving your running lights save from a power surge.

Hojo:
I'm planning on running my install through my Eastern Beaver fusebox, which is getting it's switched power from the ACC/Turn wire coming off the ST's fusebox. Based on what I'm reading in your post, it sounds like I should be running a relay between the Dual-Star switch and the circuit on my fuse box that I'll be running it into. Am I understanding that correctly?

Thom

 

[st1300r]

If you fuse box is getting switched power from an acc circuit thru a relay and powered from the battery you don't need another relay.

IOW acc triggers the relay coil. The relay contacts feed the fuse box from a fused wire from the battery. Everything ruing off the fuse box get its power from the battery.
The hi off low switch should handle the 2 amps or so for the grips.

 

[throxy]

If you fuse box is getting switched power from an acc circuit thru a relay and powered from the battery you don't need another relay.

Thanks, Carl! The EB PC-8 does have a relay already.

 

[George]

Another heated grip story:
When I got ReSTored, she had these after market heated grips, installed by Adam K. Operated thru a Warm 'n Safe HeaTroller mounted on the handlebar plastic. Worked great for five years but the throttle side gave up last spring. Didn't worry 'bout it at the time as I was on the road and the weather was good (except for the rain!! )

Anyhoo, picked up a pair of Symtec(?) pads at Aerostich when I was there this summer. They've sat in the tank bag for a couple months. Finally ordered some BMW grips from Bike Bandit and did the install Tuesday.

Removing the Hot Grips was a PITA because the hard plastic internal ridges were glued in place. Had to strip the outer rubber, cut the heating elements (thin steel wire in a spiral) then chew the plastic off with a ChanelLoks. While removing the throttle side found a broken wire at the junction between the grip and the lead. Grips were 'bout worn out anyway and I like the BMW style. Left side was already destroyed.

All set for the pads, decided to check the electric connections. Found the HeaTroller putting out only ~2 VDC and the little light flashing fast at all settings. Got a note back from Mike at Warm 'N Safe yesterday saying the original style would slowly degrade after being subjected to a short, only option is to replace it. I'd already ordered the new one which contains a reset to protect it from a short. $60.

I'm using 2 throttle-side grips with duct tape on the left side to make up the diff and provide insulation so both sides have the same heat level. With a new HeaTroller, she'll be good to go for my October trip, starting in a couple weeks.

Long enuff?

I've noticed for a couple weeks that my STebel horn was weak. Started to look at the rest of the aux electric and found only 2 VDC at the input to the aux. fuse box. unplugged the HeaTroller and voltage popped back to 12.6. Horn sounds good. So, the internal short in the HeaTroller was causing other problems. Only other circuit on that fuse box is an extra SAE 2-prong which is seldom used so no harm, no foul.

All will be good soon's the new HeaTroller gets here. Gotta ride'er this weekend, tho, without heated grips. Don't anticipate a problem as we'll be in the Mohave and Sonoran Deserts. Highs in the 90s.

 

[hojo in sc]

Thanks, Carl! The EB PC-8 does have a relay already.

That is correct, EB does have an EXTERNAL relay which will make a very good installation. If it did NOT come with a relay, you would need to put one in.

My other bike came with a Fuzeblock set up where the relay is built inside. If the relay fails, I have to go back home and solder it to get it loose enough to replace. However, if it did fail, I could move the fuses so that the wires would be HOT all the time (not good for certain items, like extra running lights, which I wouldn't bypass the relay). If my bike didn't have the Fuzeblock, I would have gone with EB.

 

[willymakit]

Carl, The rocker switch IS rated in excess of the grip amp draw, but...a lot of folks have had issues with this switch, and using relays eliminates the burnt contact issue. A silicone weather cover hopefully will address the corrosion issue. We'll see.
George, the Aerostitch heater elements use a voltage drop,(resistance device) and the Symtec use a three wire, separate hi/lo element design. With the heatroller do you just eliminate the lo/voltage dropped element? willy

 

[George]

Carl, The rocker switch IS rated in excess of the grip amp draw, but...a lot of folks have had issues with this switch, and using relays eliminates the burnt contact issue. A silicone weather cover hopefully will address the corrosion issue. We'll see.
George, the Aerostitch heater elements use a voltage drop,(resistance device) and the Symtec use a three wire, separate hi/lo element design. With the heatroller do you just eliminate the lo/voltage dropped element? willy

That's correct, Willy. A separate ceramic resistor provides the lo side, just leave it out when using the HeaTroller.

On the Aerostich wiring diagram, they have two options, use the resistor for the Lo circuit, or wire it in series with the right grip only to give even heating between the two grips and have only one setting. I eliminated the uneven heating by using two right grips and insulating the left side with several layers of duct tape. The HeaTroller gives variable heat so best of all worlds.

 

[George]

Carl, The rocker switch IS rated in excess of the grip amp draw, but...a lot of folks have had issues with this switch, and using relays eliminates the burnt contact issue. A silicone weather cover hopefully will address the corrosion issue. We'll see.
George, the Aerostitch heater elements use a voltage drop,(resistance device) and the Symtec use a three wire, separate hi/lo element design. With the heatroller do you just eliminate the lo/voltage dropped element? willy

That's correct, Willy. A separate ceramic resistor provides the lo side, just leave it out when using the HeaTroller.

On the Aerostich wiring diagram, they have two options, use the resistor for the Lo circuit, or wire it in series with the right grip only to give even heating between the two grips and have only one setting. I eliminated the uneven heating by using two right grips and insulating the left side with several layers of duct tape. The HeaTroller gives variable heat so best of all worlds.

The main reason for using a relay is to give certain control at the ignition switch for on/off without pulling extra current thru the bike's harness. A relay does not eliminate contact problems as the relay has contacts too. I've burned up a couple over the years.

 

[willymakit]

Hi George, I've never open a relay, do they have better contact point material, like platinum? They cost more than a switch so you'd think they must have something better in there? willy

 

[st1300r]

There are some specialty relays that use various materials including platinum paladium mercury wetted etc but I'm pretty sure run of the mill auto realys are similar to generic switches. The difference is some are sealed and keep moisture/corrosion of the contacts. Contacts may be a little larger. Guts of an auto relay attached. Contacts near the 5mm line on the tape measure

Didn't know the dual stars have one element and use a resistor.
I learned something can I leave work now?

 

[George]

Good picture. The internals (winding and core) of the relay account for the extra cost compared to a straight SP/ST switch. Lots of variety including up to 70amp capacity, etc. But you can spend much more dollars on switches too. All the exotic materials including 24 carot gold contacts.

There are some specialty relays that use various materials including platinum paladium mercury wetted etc but I'm pretty sure run of the mill auto realys are similar to generic switches. The difference is some are sealed and keep moisture/corrosion of the contacts. Contacts may be a little larger. Guts of an auto relay attached. Contacts near the 5mm line on the tape measure

Didn't know the dual stars have one element and use a resistor.
I learned something can I leave work now?

 

[hojo in sc]

That's correct, Willy. A separate ceramic resistor provides the lo side, just leave it out when using the HeaTroller.

If that resistor is anything like the one I had when I put heated grips on my first wing, the resistor got DARN HOT and you had to make sure you didn't let it rest against the plastic on the bike, for fear of melting it. Not sure if it is the same type, George???