First time rear wheel removal on a shaft drive

[red one]

Near where I live we have a Honda powersports dealer that specializes in Goldwing and Trike conversions. Some of the used bikes they have serviced has 200K on the drive shaft components. So guess what ole red one is going to do when it comes time for a rear tire change? Thats right buy the stuff they are using....easy choice.

 

[minhtri2002]

Moly60 was highly resistant to separation in the tube but Honda superseded M60 with M-77 over 10 years ago. I recognize there are choices other than Honda M-77 but Honda is the one with skin in this game.

Unlike M60, M-77 will separate in the tube and if the tube is not kneaded prior to opening the product will not be applied properly. I've noted this in previous threads.

I’ve been using this stuff for the last 8 years that comes with every rear brake pads on Honda cars. I didn’t even know Honda replaced m60 to m77 to all new motorcycles have driven shaft. I would say m77 is not good choice for ours st1300. Honda should be aware of that.

 

[red one]

I’ve been using this stuff for the last 8 years that comes with every rear brake pads on Honda cars. I didn’t even know Honda replaced m60 to m77 to all new motorcycles have driven shaft. I would say m77 is not good choice for ours st1300. Honda should be aware of that.

Just a thought here....Do you think M77 is the factory paste on all new Goldwings that leave Japan?

 

[etalors]

Almost turning into an oil thread.

With so much knowledge on this board. There should be a final consensus as to what is the best paste, now that honda has discontinued their original (M-60) paste. That will make everyone's life easier.

 

[Bmacleod]

I ran m77 for 3 years and the paste always looked fresh every time I popped the wheel off and my splines look like new. I only switched to loctite when I couldn't find my tube of m77 (turns out my son decided to confiscate it and not tell me) because it was cheaper and easier to get than another tube of m77. The loctite works fine as well. I don't see a difference

 

[etalors]

what is the name of this dealer

 

[Bmacleod]

I’ve been using this stuff for the last 8 years that comes with every rear brake pads on Honda cars. I didn’t even know Honda replaced m60 to m77 to all new motorcycles have driven shaft. I would say m77 is not good choice for ours st1300. Honda should be aware of that.

...and this opinion is based on what???

 

[Jjonahjamison]

I have found that the motorcycle shops I have had replace tires have no clue about correct spline lube. I keep my loctite 51048 in my fairing box when I go on trips so that I can instruct the tech and give him the correct product if I need to replace a tire.

That being said, I had several tires replaced before I understood the moly requirement without the correct lube, with just whatever grease the shops put on. I suspect that the prior application of moly paste, if not cleaned off, is sufficient to provide some protection.

 

[red one]

what is the name of this dealer

Neihaus Cycle Litchfield Illinois.

 

[minhtri2002]

Just a thought here....Do you think M77 is the factory paste on all new Goldwings that leave Japan?

I have no ideas except if i have a Gold Wing. Lol.

 

[minhtri2002]

...and this opinion is based on what???

I meant m77 stuff i have been using for rear brake pads and i wouldn’t use it on st1300. Lol

 

[Bmacleod]

I meant m77 stuff i have been using for rear brake pads and i wouldn’t use it on st1300. Lol

Okay my question is still, why wouldn't you use it on st drive splines? Is it just because they also suggest that you can use it on brake pads as well? It is also recommended for lubing some gun action parts (that is how I lost my first tube. My son found out I had some and needed it for his guns). I'm sure moly paste has many uses

 

[Kevcules]

Almost turning into an oil thread.

With so much knowledge on this board. There should be a final consensus as to what is the best paste, now that honda has discontinued their original (M-60) paste. That will make everyone's life easier.

Unfortuneatley , you wil never have 100% consensus on any topic. That's reality.
Discussion boards are populated with real life experiences and we should hear the advice of others and then decide what's best for us.

 

[jfheath]

That is the first time I have seen those sachets and it provides a missing link as far as I am concerned - ie that Honda's M77 is the Molykote product made by Dow Corning.

The only reference that I have found for M77 replacing M60 that has stated the purpose has been for use on car brakes.
I know that Honda use M77 on brakes. I have never seen a statement that M77 is a suitable replacement for M60 on drive splines - only in the context of car brakes - and yes - I did some thorough searching at the time.

That package confirms that Honda use the Dow Corning M77 'Molykote' paste for brakes - which until now, I could only assume.
The spec sheet for Dow Corning Molykote M77 states that it is not suitable for extreme load applications.

It also uses a silicone base, and Dow Corning have stated that these are typically not suited to the extreme load situations, that I described to them for the St1300 drive splines - mineral base is preferable. (In an email reply to my questions that I published on here years ago).

Dow Corning no longer list the recommended G-n paste which was suitable for extreme loads, nor do they list M77. The company now seems to be focusing on Silicone based products.
The Japanese company Polysi produced an M77 paste for Honda which was also silicone based.

Other products recommended in the Honda manual for the drive splines still exist.

Rocol ASP is one of these. This has since been renamed by Rocol as Dry Moly Paste, but it is the same stuff - according to email from Rocol They quoted 50% MoS2.

The things to look for are
MoS2 content >40% - according to the manual
Suitable for extreme pressure / load situations - according to Dow Corning

Many use Loctite 8012 / 51048 which seem to meet the important spec for use on the splines and has good reports from members of this site.

I use the Rocol Dry Moly Paste. It's easier for me to get hold of. It has the look and feel of Moly60 in spite of having quoted different NLGI rating - a broad brush scale which compares the consistency of the paste with things like peanut butter, vegetable shortening, and tomato paste! Both feel more like Peanut butter (2) to me. Definitely not 'hard shortening' or solid fat.

 

[CYYJ]

...Has anyone actually had to replace a final drive in the history of ST-O?

Back around 2005 or so, an apprentice at my Swiss dealer used the wrong lubricant on the final drive gears of my ST 1100. Next time I brought the moto in for a rear tire change, the final drive was shot and had to be replaced. The dealer was honest and stood behind their work, so they did the replacement of the whole thing at their expense, but I do recall them mentioning that it cost them over $1,000 in parts.

Michael

 

[Upt' North]

Loctite is the stuff you need. But be prepared for the price in the UK.
It ain't cheap, but like Michael points out, neither are final drives.
Upt'North.