TwoBrittanys
aka itsbent
Morons?
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Harleys and Heat: truth or myth?
- Thread starter EASt
- Start date
The BMW with the cylinders sticking out the side is the most ridiculous looking motorcycle ive ever seen. I would rather be riding a mountain bike than that thing
TwoBrittanys
aka itsbent
May be, but its also the most intelligent design for an air cooled two cylinder engine along with Moto-Guzzi. You'd have to try very hard to overheat one.
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Harpo
Four Stars
+1 on itsbent's last. The BMW boxer twin is the penultimate twin cylinder design in existence. Some guys just don't appreciate function over pretty, I guess.
How does that make it MORE efficient? If the chain is slack, doesn't that mean some power is lost taking up the slack when power is applied?
Agreed, but we're not talking about race bikes. My Buell has plenty of torque and the belt seems to handle it just fine for my application.
I admit I'm lazy, but because I would rather ride than spend time lubing, adjusting, or changing a chain, I'm not a real man
Do I get any points towards real manliness for changing my own oil?
TwoBrittanys
aka itsbent
I had a 1997 Buell S3T tuber that I flogged for 4 years. Lord knows what the PO did to it. I sold it with over 30K miles. Original belt and sprockets. BTW the belt on that model was designed to run very loose.
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Buell XB12X 103hp/84ft lb
Busa 197hp/187 ft lb
Somewhere between the two is the (current) upper limit for belt drive. What is the most hp/torque that manufacturers are putting through a belt?
Busa 197hp/187 ft lb
Somewhere between the two is the (current) upper limit for belt drive. What is the most hp/torque that manufacturers are putting through a belt?
Harpo
Four Stars
Well, they're standard equipment on Harley Davidson, so they must be rated for lower horsepower/torque figures.
ulyrider: It takes less power to roll a lightly set chain over sprockets than a tight belt over pulleys. Tighter setups eat more power.
That's also why belt conversion kits that use the stock countershaft on a bike to run a pully are folly. The countershafts for belt driver bikes is much thicker and the bearings are more robust because the belt setup is tensioned so much more.
Also, the center of the thrust line on a belt is farther away from the bearings for the countershaft .. which stresses the bearings all to he11. Belts are for people who don't want to clean their rear wheel and tire and don't want to adjust a chain regularly. Draw your own conclusions why.
ulyrider: It takes less power to roll a lightly set chain over sprockets than a tight belt over pulleys. Tighter setups eat more power.
That's also why belt conversion kits that use the stock countershaft on a bike to run a pully are folly. The countershafts for belt driver bikes is much thicker and the bearings are more robust because the belt setup is tensioned so much more.
Also, the center of the thrust line on a belt is farther away from the bearings for the countershaft .. which stresses the bearings all to he11. Belts are for people who don't want to clean their rear wheel and tire and don't want to adjust a chain regularly. Draw your own conclusions why.
Not all V twins are flawed. The Yamaha Stratoliner carries 5 plus quarts of oil; Harley carries 3 quarts. The liner has a sump to the rear of the cylinders and an oil cooler in the front. It circulates the oil very nicely. Does it run hot? Of course. Does it overheat easily? no way. 25,000 miles before it was totaled, there were no heating issues. My brother in law's 07 Ultra classic will roast your goodies, but it does have beautiful paint and two valve technology.
Jefro
I ride to Sturgis
Only had to push one of my Harleys one time. But that was due to no gas gauge and miscalculating remaining mileage after twisting the petcock to reserve.
Finally left the HDs behind after getting tired of roasting my chestnuts every summer.
Jefro.
Finally left the HDs behind after getting tired of roasting my chestnuts every summer.
Jefro.
Isn't the difference in capacity because the Yamaha is a unit construction while the Harley is not. My Harley takes about 3 in the engine, 1 in the tranny and 1 in the primary. All that's in one case in the Yamaha.
Calling people morons and referencing "real men" really isn't necessary is it?
TwoBrittanys
aka itsbent
The way I understand it ICE engines are heat engines. No heat, no go. The bigger the engine the more BTU's of heat it makes. The same cubic inch engine weather air or liquid cooled generate similar heat profiles. The liquid cooled engine has the advantage of disposal of the heat at a remote location. On a motorcycle with an AC engine the the heat rises more or less directly onto the rider. whereas a LC engine usually has the heat exchanger (radiator) a foot or so in front of the rider so its more comfortable in stop and go situations.
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So, I was at the local campus for a parade last night. Ambient temps around 50?F.
It was a parade of about 10 city blocks, and resident police departments were using their motorcycles for escorts. All of these motorcycles were Road Kings, police type. Not sure of the year, but they must've been less than three years old.
Anyhow, I was watching as one of the cops was desperately trying to start his motorcycle. I asked him what happened and he said, "It overheated. This happens all the time. Two other motorcycles are dead for the same reason tonight."
"So, it just dies when it gets warm?" I asked.
"Mostly when we're doing stuff like this - slow to idle riding for long periods of time," the cop answered.
Another cop showed up with a jump-start battery and some tools. I chatted with the guys for a while, and eventually told them I had an ST1300.
"We looked really close at those," one of the cops said. "But at the time, nobody could beat the Harley lease deal. Too bad we couldn't afford 'em."
The motorcycle sergeant was taking the Harley apart in progressive steps and said, "But this is our absolute last year on Harleys. We just can't deal with the problems any more."
So... do their motorcycles overheat because they're air cooled engines, and when they're idling along, they don't cool enough?
It was a parade of about 10 city blocks, and resident police departments were using their motorcycles for escorts. All of these motorcycles were Road Kings, police type. Not sure of the year, but they must've been less than three years old.
Anyhow, I was watching as one of the cops was desperately trying to start his motorcycle. I asked him what happened and he said, "It overheated. This happens all the time. Two other motorcycles are dead for the same reason tonight."
"So, it just dies when it gets warm?" I asked.
"Mostly when we're doing stuff like this - slow to idle riding for long periods of time," the cop answered.
Another cop showed up with a jump-start battery and some tools. I chatted with the guys for a while, and eventually told them I had an ST1300.
"We looked really close at those," one of the cops said. "But at the time, nobody could beat the Harley lease deal. Too bad we couldn't afford 'em."
The motorcycle sergeant was taking the Harley apart in progressive steps and said, "But this is our absolute last year on Harleys. We just can't deal with the problems any more."
So... do their motorcycles overheat because they're air cooled engines, and when they're idling along, they don't cool enough?
That's a problem with any bike that rides slowly...
Even an ST1100 will have issues if the ambient temp is high enough... trust me on this one...
Even an ST1100 will have issues if the ambient temp is high enough... trust me on this one...
That's what has me scratching my head. It wasn't warm at all while this was happening.
So, any motor - air cooled or liquid cooled - could overheat and cut off when spending that much time or riding less than 10mph?
The ST will not 'cut off' it'll just get so hot you could damage the heads.
The air cooled engines that I am most familiar with (VW's in the 60's and 70's) would vapor lock if they were very hot and you turned them off.
The air cooled engines that I am most familiar with (VW's in the 60's and 70's) would vapor lock if they were very hot and you turned them off.
Then what's the radiator and cap, the thermostat, and fan for then?
We idle cars through a city all day long, and never worry about it. The fan kicks in as needed.
Don't know; but, I have been stuck in traffic, with the fan running and still had the temp keep going up, and up, and up...
I suspect cars with their larger radiator and fan combo have a better cooling surface area ratio than our bikes.
I suspect cars with their larger radiator and fan combo have a better cooling surface area ratio than our bikes.
Anything that requires cooling to run efficiently, or at all, will overheat given the appropriate circumstances..... i.e. Very, very high ambient temperatures.
If the heat can't be disposed of it will simply build up, so, yes, even the mighty Honda ST will at some point, overheat.... but the air cooled bike would have long since ceased operation....
This is not a problem we see in the UK...... ever.
Years ago when i had a CX500 with full touring fairing, I had to remove the lowers one hot summer as the bike would cough and splutter once it got "hot" due to pre-atomisation of the fuel in the carbs.... when running at stop start town speeds with air temperatures up in the 80's.(F).
Now that was a liquid cooled bike, but the hot air from the rad was blown back over the carbs.... hard to blow it anywhere else really, a bit like the ST.
If the heat can't be disposed of it will simply build up, so, yes, even the mighty Honda ST will at some point, overheat.... but the air cooled bike would have long since ceased operation....
This is not a problem we see in the UK...... ever.
Years ago when i had a CX500 with full touring fairing, I had to remove the lowers one hot summer as the bike would cough and splutter once it got "hot" due to pre-atomisation of the fuel in the carbs.... when running at stop start town speeds with air temperatures up in the 80's.(F).
Now that was a liquid cooled bike, but the hot air from the rad was blown back over the carbs.... hard to blow it anywhere else really, a bit like the ST.